Powered towers + external sub, THE way to go? (1 Viewer)

[Ryan Schnacke]

Powered towers + external sub, THE way to go?

So which is it, Bob? "THE way to go" sounds like a pretty definitive conclusion.

 

[Tony Genovese]

I refuse to weigh in on this or any more threads dealing with this subject begun by Bob. However, I will continue to enjoy them. They are damn entertaining!!!!

 

[Bob_A]

"So which is it, Bob? "THE way to go" sounds like a pretty definitive conclusion"

Ryan, notice the question mark at the end of the thread title.

As I said before, some people seem so quick to simply dismiss a certain option which has clearly been preferrable by some people. Amusing indeed.

 

[Tyson]

THE way to go? Not if you want the most efficient use of your $$. You can do it, of course, after all, it is your money to spend as you wish. But one thing is certain and unavoidable - with multiple sources of bass in a typical room, you are going to be in for some major cancellations and room modes. And EQ'ing them to get a decently flat response in the sweet spot is going to be a very tough job. Not impossible, but expensive and difficult. . .

 

[Bob_A]

Tyson, no one is saying that it is THE way to go for everyone. But clearly some people have preferred powered towers + external sub to smaller speakers + external sub. Obviously they would not say that this is a not a cost-effective way to go. As for your statement about cancellation, are you saying that Terrence is just flat out wrong? It is interesting how people have glossed over all the potential positives while highlighting the potential negatives. Is there really no potential for such a setup? Has anyone actually tried such a setup using three very capable speakers (like the bp2000TL) up front (given some room to breathe) defined as "large" and an external sub for LFE?

 

[Ryan Schnacke]

Bob, your title to this thread asks if PT + sub is the ultimate solution period. Now you're surprised when people highlight the potential negatives? If you want to discuss the positives then start a thread called "What are the benefits of PT + sub?".

NOBODY here has said there is "no potential for such a setup" so I don't understand why you'd even ask about that.

Its just too difficult to discuss a topic with someone who constantly tries to shift the meanings of his statements and those of others. I'm outta here.

 

[Drew Bethel]

I gotta admit, I've never seen someone so obsessed with debating power towers . Boy, do I miss the old coax vs. fibre optic wars.

Bob, I think you'd make a great saleman for Def Tech.

 

[Bob_A]

"Bob, I think you'd make a great saleman for Def Tech"
If that is a compliment, I'll take it Notice that, while I may recommend Def Tech (among anothers) to people, I will never put down another product or another viable option.

 

[BruceD]

Bob,

Direct answer to your question,

Yes, Terrance is absolutely wrong. Simply pick up a copy of F. Alton Everest's book on Acoustics, and you will find all the ammunition you need to prove Terrance wrong. Terrance is not necessarily an expert, just an internet contributor.

 

[Bob_A]

Bruce, Terrence knows his stuff. Trust me.

 

[Tony Genovese]

Bruce: Come on. Do you really think F Alton Everest knows more than Terrance? What were you thinking?

 

[Bob_A]

I would bet that F Alton Everest would never claim that the ability of your main channel loudspeakers to reproduct bass would be irrelevant for a music/movie setup when used with an external sub.

 

[Bob_A]

Ok here is more information from Terrence:

Mains should only be set to large if they can:

1. Measure and play flat down to at LEAST 40hz(at the listening position IMO 35hz is ideal)playback at reference level(or the loudest level you personally listen to) with a slow roll off below that. This is exactly the requirements of the ISO standard for movie theaters. If it works on the screen speakers in a theater and the bass response does not suffer, then it can work on the main speakers of a hometheater as well. If the speaker cannot meet these requirements, then it should be set to small.

2. That you have the power(amp output)to play back all of this CLEANLY. That means more powerful amps than normal.

"on many bassy scenes...the main L/R channels do indeed have nearly identical bass in both amptitude and frequency.(I think this might be due to the downmixing capability the Decoders have to offer"

Yes, you can mix a portion of the LFE into the mains for pro logic users. The scenario you describe is probably what is being done if you find identical signals in two seperate channels with the same frequency and amplitude. But that is becoming more rare as more of the storage capacity of the DVD format is used. With the extra space, a dedicated stereo track is usually included which eliminates this process. If downmixing was not taken into consideration, how much identical bass do you think would be mixed into the front channels? I would say enough to maintain the balance of the mix and that is all. However, a smart engineer would not use the screen channels for high levels of deep bass. Most screen speakers in the typical movie theater, or dubbing stage only goes down flat to 40hz. The real high levels of deep bass go into the LFE, and that is where a smart engineer would put it.

If you align your hometheater the same way as a well calibrated THX theater, then you will NOT suffer a poor bass response in any channel. If your front speakers can mimick the frequency response of a typical screen speaker then where is the loss? If you entire speaker package can mimick the reponse of a well calibrated theater speaker system, then where is the loss? It seems to me you would be hearing what was heard on the dubbing stage(with better fidelity I hope)

I throw this back to you. Can't the ISO 2969 standards work on a hometheater system as well as a movie theater system?

 

[Mark KU]

Out of still more morbid curiousity, what are Terrence's qualifications that make him an expert besides "he's listened to lots of systems." And if he's such an audio god, why isn't he here answering questions and gracing us with his wisdom instead of you interpreting for him. Or are you the annointed voice of the audio god in this matter?

 

[John Kotches]

Hey Bob,

Why would someone want to follow the guidelines for a large venue in the home environment?

They are two totally different acoustic beasts, so what works well in the cavernous space of a movie theater, will in all likelihood not work well in the home.

This is why THX has differing acoustics standards for movie theaters and home theaters.

Damn, there's that THX thing and Tom Holmans name coming up once more.

Me, I'll take Tom Holman's advice (ala THX standards) over an AR "expert". Note, it was your choice to label Terrence this way in one of your posts. I am merely following your earlier convention.

So tell me Bob, in your "expert" opinion, why would it be a good idea to follow the acoustic guidelines for a space measured in 10s of thousands of cubic feet in a space that's only in the thousands of cubic feet?

Regards,

 

[Sean M]

Actually, John, I'd say we're talking hundreds of thousands of cubic feet, not tens of thousands. Of course, this makes the comparison even more absurd.

 

[John Kotches]

Sean,
I stand corrected. Assuming a theater is 100' x 40' x 25' we're looking at a volume of 100,000 ft^3.
Assuming a home theater is 30x20x9 we're looking at a volume of 5400 ft^3. So, give or take 5% of the volume, eh?
Nah, no difference, handle it the same
Regards,

 

[Ned]

More Bob propoganda.

Did you get a level meter and Avia/VE yet bob?

 

[Bob_A]

"And if he's such an audio god, why isn't he here answering questions and gracing us with his wisdom instead of you interpreting for him."
I told you that he posts at AR. I am sure he would be happy to discuss his "qualifications" with you, if that is important to you.
I think that Terrence has proposed such a setup which will attempt to mimic the setup that we find in a movie theater. Of course I cannot make any definitive conclusions. As for the issue about size of a movie theater, well how many speakers do they use? A lot more than we do.
What about Terrence's question:
Can't the ISO 2969 standards work on a hometheater system as well as a movie theater system?

 

[Tyson]

Bob said:

It is interesting how people have glossed over all the potential positives while highlighting the potential negatives.

Please list specifically the potential positives of the powered tower + sub.

Why do you constantly bring up the subject of powered towers? Are you trying to convince people here that PT's are superior to other speakers? Don't get me wrong, I think powered towers in general have several advantages over a passive full range tower, and also a couple of advantages over sub/sat setups too (mainly cosmetics & space saving type of advantages). The only performance advantage I could possibly see with the enclosed sub is a higher crossover point, so that the midrange unit does not have to work as much on the upper bass signals.

So my question is, what is the point of all this, Bob? What are you driving at?