power conditioning......advice needed

Discussion in 'Archived Threads 2001-2004' started by Gareth, Aug 5, 2002.

  1. Gareth

    Gareth Stunt Coordinator

    Joined:
    Feb 28, 2001
    Messages:
    80
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Gentlemen,
    I need some advice in regards to power conditioners. I have 4 Richard Gray's currently, star clustered (elegant term for one Richard Gray with 3 Richard Gray's plugged into that). My system consists of the following components:

    ADA Cinema Rhapsody Mach II Processor
    ADA MPA 501 Amplifier (5 x 250wpc)
    ADA pF 2501 Amplifier (2 x 250wpc)
    K2 Crown Amplifier (1 x 2000watts) (sub 1)
    K2 Crown Amplifier (1 x 2000watts) (sub 2)
    1 RP91k Panasonic DVD Player
    1 Tivo
    1 Toshiba 36" 36HFX72 Television
    7 NHT Audio Center 2's
    2 NHT U1 Subwoofer Systems (rear)
    2 Home Built 10" Aluminum Driver Subs (front)

    What I'd like to run through the conditioner is the processor, the MPA501 amplifier, PF2501 Amplifier, the television, and DVD player most of all.

    The Richard Gray's have significantly cleaned up my video signal, from regular television to picture from a dvd. The blacks are incredibly black and the colours much more vibrant. However its debatable if I've heard any audio upgrade at all, which means there has not been a significant improvement in this area at all.

    What would you recommend as a good power conditioner for this system? I've read a few threads and it seems Furman might be the choice?? Has anyone used the reference brand they sell?

    However, keep in mind I don't want to choke the main amps which are providing the 7 channels. Also, I have run into issues with ground loops in the system (RG's are not grounded properly) producing annoying hums which I've isolated and made go away, but it would be really nice to not have to spend an entire day debugging the system if I ever set it up again. And I might be a complete moron asking this, so bear with me, but what is the difference between power conditioning and power balancing?

    Lastly, my home is a rural 1970's ranch style house with wire that dates that far back. The only good thing is that I had the electrician wire a dedicated 40A circuit to the home theater room the last time he was out there.

    Any and all comments are welcome,
    Regards,
    Gareth
     
  2. Bill Kane

    Bill Kane Screenwriter

    Joined:
    Feb 5, 2001
    Messages:
    1,359
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    what does "power conditioining" mean to you? In the marketplace, it's a catch-all term.

    Much info in Tweaking Forum the past 2-3 weeks.

    Are you concerned about surge suppression? Get the $219 ZeroSurge Series Mode wallmount box to splice inline (garage/basement) on the circuit serving your HT. Call-up ZS website for tel no. for info and ordering. Speak to "Peter." However, living where you do with PG&E, total lightning protection here may be overkill. Still, the industrial type box I mention is far cheaper than most multi-outlet power centers like Panamax Max 5300/5100 etc.

    Read bpt.com for tutorial on Balanced Power. It's a good technique to come out of the wall socket to yr equipment. Still need some surge suppression, tho.
     
  3. Wayne A. Pflughaupt

    Joined:
    Aug 5, 1999
    Messages:
    6,130
    Likes Received:
    40
    Trophy Points:
    6,610
    Location:
    Katy, TX
    Real Name:
    Wayne
    Gareth,
    A few things come to mind.
     
  4. Kevin C Brown

    Kevin C Brown Producer

    Joined:
    Aug 3, 2000
    Messages:
    5,712
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    You might want to go check out the reviews on Secrets:
    http://www.hometheaterhifi.com/maste...ditioners.html
    Take a look at the balanced power units from Equi=Tech, Furman, BPT, and Smart.
    I had 2 Richard Gray 400s's. Helped with video much more than audio. I then went to an Equi=Tech. Much more improvement across the board, audio and video, analog and digital.
    Balanced power is a proven technology for eliminating AC line noise without the potential downsides of filters.
    That's why balanced interconnects are so popular in high end audio and recording studios.
     
  5. Gareth

    Gareth Stunt Coordinator

    Joined:
    Feb 28, 2001
    Messages:
    80
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    First of all, a correction to my first post. It's a dedicated 20A circuit.
    I was not aware that the Richard Gray's were not grounded properly (my experience) until this weekend when turning on my one subwoofer amp caused my right front speaker to start humming. This was one of the reasons I started to research the power area of HTF.
    So, a little recall back to high school physics class, but with Power = Current times Voltage, my 7 channels totalling 1750 Watts, with 120 V, the current needed at max power (and some very good ear plugs) would be 14.58 Amps.
    I'd doubt that I'd ever run at 100% capacity, so I'd have to measure what my operating current is, as well as how much it goes up when the bass fires.
    So, if I were to add an Equitech lets say as my balanced power unit (20A model), if I understand all the posts correctly, all my ground loops will go away (for those plugged into that unit), and I will see an increase in video and audio quality from my system.
    Can anyone suggest a good test DVD to run to see the difference between no conditioning, the Richard Gray's, and the Equitech?
    However, if I also understand, I do not have surge protection, so I really should put a zerosurge 2R20HG surge protector (20A model with 20A cord) in between the Equitech and the wall. The Equitech 2R model states that it offers standard 240 Joules of Protection (surge protection), which isn't that much at all.
    That should cover my system, minus the 4500 Watts I have left over which all goes to my subs. That is broken down into 2 Crown Amps (2000 Watts each) and 2 NHT U1 Subwoofer A1 amps (250 Watts each).
    I read the reviews on www.hometheaterhifi.com and its a tossup which is better, the Equitech 2Q or the Furman IT model.
    Thanks for the great feedback guys. Sorry for the 2nd grade summary, but I've been working for 4 days w/very little sleep.
    Cheers,
    Gareth
     
  6. Chu Gai

    Chu Gai Lead Actor

    Joined:
    Jun 29, 2001
    Messages:
    7,270
    Likes Received:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    0
    As an aside to balanced power units, which are somewhat costly, consider something that utilizes isolation transformers. For example, Belkin Isolators, 4 & 6 outlet versions, in addition to providing surge protection (UL 1440 of 330 volts), have each pair of outlets sharing an isolation transformer I believe. These will also attenuate line noise and you can pick them up at Office Depot and probably the other places like Stapes. Don't like it, no hassle on returns.
     
  7. Wayne A. Pflughaupt

    Joined:
    Aug 5, 1999
    Messages:
    6,130
    Likes Received:
    40
    Trophy Points:
    6,610
    Location:
    Katy, TX
    Real Name:
    Wayne
    Gareth,

     
  8. Chu Gai

    Chu Gai Lead Actor

    Joined:
    Jun 29, 2001
    Messages:
    7,270
    Likes Received:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    0
    I think he overlooked the Crowns. In either case utilizing all 7 channels to their maximum capacity is highly unlikely. More likely you'll be well well under that and the capacitors will provide extra juice upon demand.
     
  9. Jon Best

    Jon Best Extra

    Joined:
    Apr 22, 2002
    Messages:
    21
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    The B-P-T model 2.5 is exactly what you want. This unit gives performance of the much more $$$ Furman and EquiTech prods at much less money.
    www.b-p-t.com
     
  10. Gareth

    Gareth Stunt Coordinator

    Joined:
    Feb 28, 2001
    Messages:
    80
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    I excluded the Crowns from the equation just for simplicity's sake. I'm going to get an ammeter from fluke and just out of curiousity see what my operating current is for a) the 7 channels and b) the subs when they are driving.

    That way I know where my system exists in the world. I started looking into this because of an issue with a ground loop, but now I find all of this incredibly intriguing.

    Gareth
     
  11. Kevin C Brown

    Kevin C Brown Producer

    Joined:
    Aug 3, 2000
    Messages:
    5,712
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Gareth- The P=I*V I think is only valid for DC. Some rms stuff (and imaginary stuff) for AC. I think! [​IMG] (Or maybe it's V=I*R...)
    The Equi=Tech I have, actually is a 20A model. Luckily, that's the circuit I had, and just swapped the 15A plug with a 20A plug. Also remember that those numbers are the *maxiumum* a component will draw, which is very unlikely in a real world scenario.
    Also, some of the units do seem quite expensive, but they can be found discounted. For the system you have? I think you'd want to make sure you're spending your money on something worthwhile.
    Balanced power IMO, doesn't matter from who...
    I always personally thought the PS Audio Power Plants were the absolute best solution, but man, are they expensive to get a 1500 or 2000W AC source...
     

Share This Page