Post dated check cashed early. WTF?!!! (1 Viewer)

[CameronJ]

Glenn,

The word "Fraud" was used earlier, IMO it's way to strong a word. Fraud charges would most likely only be contemplated if the payee believes that you knowingly wrote a bad check with the intent of obtaining goods and services without paying for them.

A couple of points. First, it's not the bank that would be mad about a bad check, it's the payee of the check. In fact, banks actually like a certain amount of bad checks, as they charges outrageous fees for these that have absolutely no correlation with the costs associated with processing them. The first branch I managed was profitable solely on the volume of bad checks written by our customers.

In reality, if you write a bad check, the payee is going to come after you for payment regardless of whether you wrote the current date of post-dated the check. If you don't pay them, then you're taking fraud.

 

[Shayne Lebrun]

And note that it wouldn't be that hard to say that I just looked at the wrong date on the calendar when I wrote it out.

Date has nothing to do with it. When you fill out a payee, amount, and sign it, that cheque becomes 'live.' The date is there to protect you from idiots who hold onto the cheque for an unreasonable amount of time, then cash it, resulting in a bounced cheque should you not have the funds to cover it.

 

[Miles_W]

Wow...I'm with Howard on this one... I have been sending my children to Montessori and they require POST DATED cheques for the upcoming year... from what you are telling me they can cash these when they feel like it... ( Note this is not the first time I have done this and obviously they have not deposited a cheque prior to the date on the cheque...) Are the laws regarding this different in Canada??

 

[Shayne Lebrun]

http://www.powersource.com/cccs/richard/banking.htm
Note that this is in Texas, but should give you some ideas.
Q. I gave someone a check, post dated. I assumed that it couldn't be cashed until the date on the check. I intended on putting enough money in the bank to cover the check before it was cashed.
The person I gave it to deposited it in his bank the day after I gave it to him. My bank paid the check, and this caused several other checks of mine to bounce. The bank has charged me $25 for each check that bounced. Is this legal? How can the bank pay a check before its date?
A. You are not alone in thinking that when you give someone a post dated check that it cannot be cashed before its date. Unfortunately for you, banks generally do not check the date on a check before they pay it and have no liability for paying a post dated check early.
Under recent changes in Texas law, a bank may pay a post dated check even if it causes other checks to bounce. If you want to make sure that a post dated check is not paid, you must inform the bank and ask that they not pay it early.
This does not mean, however, that you have no legal rights to collect the money you paid for the checks that bounced. As far as I am concerned, the person you gave the post dated check to should be liable for the charges.

 

[Shayne Lebrun]

Here's a quote from a synopsis of the American Fair Debt Collection Act.

They cannot deposit a post-dated check before the date on the check, nor are they allowed to ask for a post-dated check. Keep in mind, post-dated checks are illegal.

http://www.calacreek.com/consumer/restore/res15.html

 

[Shayne Lebrun]

Also, lots of the stuff I'm reading on Google now says that a post-dated check actually becomes a Promissory Note (as in the legal definition).

So, in other words, no matter what the legal situation in your specific state/province/territory/autonomous corporate sector, don't assume that the 'date' you write on the cheque means anything at all.

I'm done now.

 

[Shawn McBride]

This reminds me of an amusing story. I don't postdate checks but a few months ago I accidentally postdated a check for a furniture payment and someone on the other end held it! It caused all sorts of trouble.
I wrote and mailed the check November 24, due December 1. About a week into December I get a late payment notice, checked my bank account, the check never cleared. I called them up and explained that I sent the check but it hadn't cleared and they had no record of payment so I sent another (no harm, no foul) and kept an eye on the previous check. I figured it was a casualty of the USPS.
Right before Christmas I sent my January payment in. When I get back from the holidays I get another letter from the furniture company. This one read something like "Dear Sir, This is to inform you that we will deposit your postdated check on 12/24/01. If this will cause a problem, contact us at ... Sincerely,... Collection Manager" I go back and check... sure enough, I wrote 12-24-01 instead of 11-24-01. :frowning:
They held the check I sent them THEN sent me a late notice because they didn't have my payment! ANYBODY HOME? Then after I had sent another payment and a next months payment my original check gets cashed! And they sent me a notice AFTER cashing the postdated check, but not when they decided to hold it! AND they had no record of the postdated check being held when I called!
Ms. Collection Manager probably thought she was doing me a favor... :rolleyes

 

[Philip Hamm]

Wow, sounds like the Collection Manager DID have a special bin for post dated checks! What do you know?

 

[Glenn Overholt]

Ok, I admit that I have made a few checks out over the years that were actually not quite legal. However, if you do have to do this, you could put today's date on it and then add a post-it note on top of it asking that they deposit in on a certain day. As they have to remove the post-it, they might just hold it until then.

Glenn

 

[Howard Williams]

Dom Vongvises & Mike_W:

Thank you for your support.

I remember when I refiananced my home loan, I was specifically asked to post date a check for something. Legal or not, they exist.

I'm no lawyer, that's for sure, but isn't a check like a legally binding contract. The payor agrees to pay the payee "X" amount? In this analogy doesn't the date on the check represent the date the contract was made and therefore goes into effect and also imposes some time limit (1 year) to it's ability to be cashed? Of course, even if that check surpasses the 1 year time limit you're still expected to pay for what you purchased. In this line of reasoning the contract is not in effect until the date on the check. Premature withdrawl (almost never a good thing), violates the original contracts agreement and should not be allowed, and should incur some penalty. Who should be liable? The Bank? The payee/endorser? The payor?!! If the legal contract model is accurate, to me, logic places the blame on the bank. Unfortunately, it doesn't really matter what I think. (Re: "The Golden Rule"). The first link by Shane suggest the liability lies with the payee/endorser. I can see how a good case can be made to hold the payee liable to the payor, but the bank, acting as an agent for the payee, should then be liable to the payee. In my second posts' scenario, if I put 4-2-02 on the check, I am agreeing to pay $500 to the payee on 4-02-02, and not anytime before that.

All of this is what logic tells me, but experience tells me something different, which is why I posted, for an explanation. It's kinda funny how many different answers I've gotten to this whole PDC (post dated check) thing. Many people (including myself) are mis-informed. I'm gonna call my bank in a hour and see what they say. Get it straight form the horse's mouth. I think what we are seeing is that what should be happening and what is happening are two different things. We'll get to the bottom of this. I think we all agree that post dating a check is usually not a good idea but niether is gambling, but in either case certain rules apply and they must be followed. Everyone should know what those rules are.

 

[Andrew Raubuck]

Here is my 2 cents worth:

I do not like to pay for something before it is due. But I get paid twice a month. So, I write my car payments and mortgage out of my first check and my other bills out of my second check. Most of the bills that I write on the 15th are not due until the 20th -> 10th of the next month. So I thought I would just date the check when the bill is due. This way I am sure that I have $500 in my account everday of the month so I am not charged a "checking fee" and the company that I owe money to has their money when the bill is due.

As we all know (now) that most companies do not hold checks so all of this does not matter. Plus my wife and I made ourselves keep at least $500 in our account at all times.

Andy

Edit

I remember when I was younger, I used to get a check from my Aunt and Uncle that live out of town, for my birthday. Usually I would get the card & check a couple of days before my birthday and they always dated the check for my birthday. When I went to the bank to cash the check, they would not let me until my birthday (date on the check) This is where I got the idea for post-dating checks.

That is all...

 

[Howard Williams]

Ok. I just talked to my banks representative. I asked him, "What is the purpose of the date slot on my checks?". At first he sounded like he thought I was playing a belated April Fool's joke on him. After a few more questions he basically confirmed that in the end, to the bank, it means absolutly nothing. The bank can, and will pay it without holding it.

So all of you that insist on post dating a check for what ever reason, be aware that the bank is not obligated to hold it for you based solely on the date written on it.If you want to defer the payment you need to communicate and get agreement from your payee. Calling the bank and asking them to hold until a certain date (as suggested by Shayne)may work too.

Like Shayne said,

So, in other words, no matter what the legal situation in your specific state/province/territory/autonomous corporate sector, don't assume that the 'date' you write on the cheque means anything at all.

I too, am now done.

 

[Dave Poehlman]

I used to deposit checks for a medical billing office. We used to get post dated checks... and even unsigned checks and we would deposit them. They never came back from the bank.

 

[Joseph Howard]

A couple interesting tidbits to add to this discussion.
I have on two occassions forgotten to "sign" my checks
and the bank went ahead and cashed them. One check was to
pay a bill, the other was to withdrawl cash. The bank
didn't even blink. It was only later when the checks were
returned that I noticed that I forgot.
Another, funnier, story. While in college I had a
phone bill that came to my mailbox that said I "owed"
the phone company "$0.00" - that's right. My phone
bill for that month was "zero dollars, and zero cents."
So I did not send a check in. (The phone was run through
the university, so there was no additional fees. All I
paid for was long distance calls.) A couple weeks later
my phone was disconnected and a collection agency started
harrassing me to pay my phone bill. When I asked the
collection agency "how much do I owe?" The collection
agent paused a moment, put me on hold, and finally
(while laughing) said "I apparently owed $0.00". The
collection agent then said, "you can obviously ignore
this."
My phone was reconnected with a call to the phone
company.
Time passed by.
Another, 2nd collection agency called demanding payment.
Again, I was told I owed "$0.00" Again, my phone was
disconnected.
So, what did I do? I finally WROTE A CHECK FOR $0.00
and sent it to the phone company. The check cleared, no
money was transferred and the collection procedures stopped.
The phone was never disconnected again.
Anyone else ever write a check for "NOTHING?"
Jeeze....
Dr. Joe

 

[RobertR]

Joseph, that's a CLASSIC!