Possibly problem, need help with new JVC DVD player...

Discussion in 'Archived Threads 2001-2004' started by Nathan Gillmore, Feb 14, 2003.

  1. Nathan Gillmore

    Nathan Gillmore Stunt Coordinator

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    Ok, I think I my have an incompatability problem, but I'm not sure, I need some help here hehe.

    I just bought a new JVC XV-FA900BK Progressive Scan DVD player. I got it hooked up to my Sony 53HS30 HDTV television and I'm not sure if the settings are just wrong, or if my tv is not compatable with this player. First of all, I hooked it up with component video, just like my old DVD player, and popped a disc in. Looked fine to me, but then I noticed that the "Progressive" light wasn't lit on the DVD player. I read in the manual and figured out how to switch it on. I did this, and the picture went completely bad. It looked much bigger and I finally realized that switching to Progressive had cause my set to go out of 16x9 mode (which is was set to for the DVD player).

    I went into the tv's menu and manually set it to 16x9, which seemed to have fixed the problem entirely. My question is this: Am I getting true Progressive Scan mode this way? The DVD player says it is in Progressive mode, I have my television set to 16x9 manually, and the picture quality looks pretty decent. I'm sitting here looking for flaws and whatnot in the picture and can't really tell that it looks THAT much better. I popped in Fellowship of the Ring and I do notice that the colors look way more vibrant, but I'm still not convinced that my tv is displaying it properly.

    Shouldn't the tv know that the source is 16x9 when I switch it to Progressive Scan mode on the dvd player?

    Any help would be appreciated, thanks much in advance!!
     
  2. Jack Briggs

    Jack Briggs Executive Producer

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    Your own post indicates you have things working normally ("colors way more vibrant," etc.). If the player is outputting a progressive 16:9 signal (which the player is indicating), and the RPTV is receiving 16:9, then all is well. It may be that the Sony's line doubler is so good with an interlaced signal that any differences you see between it and a prog-scan signal are neglible.
     
  3. Steve Schaffer

    Steve Schaffer Producer

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    The HS-30 uses the same line doubling as my KP57HW40, and it is quite good. I have my player hooked up both S-video via the receiver and component straight to the tv, and it will output interlaced via S video and progressive via component at the same time (it's a Panasonic, JVCs won't do this simultaneous progressive and interlaced output) The pic on progressive via component is a bit better than interlaced via S video handled by the tv's DRC but it's not night and day.

    Also, when using S video or component video with interlaced output, the tv aspect ratio will automatically switch to "Full" when playing an anamorphic dvd--just like the auto-squeeze on Sony's 4/3 sets like that HS-30. When using progressive scan output from the player via component, the set will not automatically do this. However, if I manually select Full for the component video dvd input, it will remember to switch to that aspect ratio when I select the component input the player's connected to, even though my default AR setting is Widezoom.
     
  4. Nathan Gillmore

    Nathan Gillmore Stunt Coordinator

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    I think I just got freaked out by it switching from the squeeze 16x9 mode out to normal mode when I switched the player into progressive mode.

    It looks pretty good when I switch the player to progressive, and then manually tell my set to switch to 16x9 mode. Thanks for the help guys, I was worried hehe! I really was happy to make the leap to a progressive picture!
     
  5. lee/ing

    lee/ing Auditioning

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    I would send it back. I'm sending mine back.

    I have an XV-FA902SL, which probably has the same design as yours does, but is silver on the exterior.

    Take a look in your instruction manual. On the bottom of page 8, in bold print, JVC has a compatibility disclaimer.

    In a nutshell, both those models are not compatible with some Sony displays and the person I spoke to had no idea what to expect in the future. It sounds like you are satisfied with its operation now, but I'm not gambling with it.

    I have a number here that will allow you to play dumb and eventually you will get to speak to a living person, 800-252-5722. The person I spoke to, who was not a tech, was only aware of the player's problems with Sony displays, but knew nothing beyond that.

    The rep did not know which Sony models, which other manufacturer's, not a clue. JVC knew it had a problem, but chose to ignore it and just added a disclaimer to the owner's manual.

    I did write a subjective, amateurish review and posted it on DVDTalk's hardware section. You can read what I wrote it in full, if you're interested. I do hope that this gets JVC's attention.
     
  6. Adil M

    Adil M Supporting Actor

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    Lee,
    You mind linking us to the site. I am interested at these "compatibility" problems.
     
  7. ManW_TheUncool

    ManW_TheUncool Producer

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    Yes, I am interested to see also. I've heard someone mention about this before, but never found out exactly what was "incompatible". I'd think if it was a real issue, then there would be more posts about it and plenty of details.

    _Man_
     
  8. Steve Schaffer

    Steve Schaffer Producer

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    The HS-30 and my HW-40 have essentially the same chassis and my JVC progressive scan player had no compatibility issues.

    There was a compatibility issue between some players and some Hitachi SDX series 4/3 HD-ready sets, a couple of years ago.

    I had a widescreen Hitachi for a couple of weeks before I got the Sony, both sets have similar compatibility warnings in thier owner's manuals.
     
  9. ManW_TheUncool

    ManW_TheUncool Producer

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    Steve,

    I'm not sure if you've answered this before. With the JVC, can it zoom w/out zooming too much for improperly flagged, non-16x9 DVDs? I've read some posts that say it can only do a 2x zoom at minimum, not 1.33x to maintain OAR like the auto scaling does.

    Thanks.

    _Man_
     
  10. Steve Schaffer

    Steve Schaffer Producer

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    I haven't had my JVC hooked up for a few months so don't take this as gospel, but when I zoomed Titanic (improperly flagged 2:35 non-anamorphic) it did seem to have about the same size black bars on my 16/9 set as an anamorphic 2:35 film. If it was a 2x zoom, I'd think there would be very noticeably narrower black bars or none at all. More annoying was figuring out the chicken dance necessary to get rid of the Zoom icon in the upper right hand corner of the screen, which differs from disc to disc.

    I ran into so many improperly flagged widescreen nonanamorphic dvds that for me the main benefit of the scaling feature was it's placement of black bars on the sides of 1:33 films and not having to change aspect ratio on the tv
    constantly when watching special features sections. More and more of the latter are a mixture of anamorphic and non anamorphic and can be a real pain.

    The X-Men 1.5 disc will, if you choose, automatically play deleted scenes in the proper places when playing the film. Unfortunately, though the film is anamorphic, the deleted scenes are not, so I was constantly having to play with the aspect ratio control on my tv since I'm now using a Panny CP 72 with no scaling.
     
  11. lee/ing

    lee/ing Auditioning

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    Adil, Man-Fai, the website is www.jvc.com and from there you can find some local service shops via your zip code. I don't recall any mention of compatibility issues on JVC's website and was quite thorough when I checked it out. The local guys didn't know what I was talking about.

    JVC's disclaimer is about the progressive mode producing an "unnatural picture," and the remedy is to back out and use the interlaced scanning mode.

    The second 800 number, 252-5722 connected me to a live zombie. If you call you may get more information from a different zombie but the one I spoke to gave me all the info I needed.

    It sounds like disclaimers are the rule rather than the exception. I don't have reason to read many owner's manuals, making me ignorant of the disclaimer trend.
     
  12. ManW_TheUncool

    ManW_TheUncool Producer

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    Hmmm... By "unnatural picture", are they referring to what you get w/ non-16x9 DVDs on HDTVs that lock into FULL mode w/ a 480p signal?? That certainly sounds like it since the remedy is to "use the interlaced scanning mode". In that case, it's really the TV's fault PLUS the DVD's fault, not the player. It's the TV's fault for locking into FULL mode. It's the DVD's fault for improper flagging--the player would be able to work around the TV problem w/ a properly flagged DVD. Still, one should be able to use one of the zoom/shrink modes on the JVC to work around this. Btw, very few players can work around this combo of problems.

    Anyway, "unnatural" is just too vague.

    RE: disclaimers. This is OT, but the one I "like" best is in TV warranties for non-coverage of image burn. And of course, they set the TVs to default to torch mode and don't advise you to readjust properly in the manual (or at the store).

    _Man_
     
  13. Steve Schaffer

    Steve Schaffer Producer

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    Lee,

    If I might ask, since you're sending your JVC back due to "incompatibility", just what specific problem are you having, what's the model number of your Sony TV, and which dvds are you having a problem with?

    Not to insult you or in any way upset you, but since you didn't post the specific problem you're having there's no way for us to tell whether it might be a correctable issue or not.

    You said you don't normally read owner's manuals, so there may be a setting or adjustment you could make that would correct the problem.

    If you'd post what the specific problem is and what the settings are on the JVC as well as the tv, we might be able to resolve the problem.

    Again, this is not meant as any kind of criticism of you, just a desire to help if possible.
     
  14. lee/ing

    lee/ing Auditioning

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    Here's the disclaimer,

    Notes

    * There are some progressive TV and High-Definition TV sets that are not fully compatible with the unit, resulting in the unnatural picture when playing back a DVD VIDEO disc in the Progressive scanning mode. In such a case, use the Interlaced scanning mode. To check the compatibility of your TV set, contact your local JVC customer service center.

    * All JVC progressive TV and High-Definition TV sets are fully compatible with the unit (Example : AV-61S902).


    Steve, don't worry, I'm not easily insulted.

    I don't have a progressive display, so I don't know what the possible incompatiblities might look like. I purchased the player for its dvd-audio and progressive features in advance. I'm planning on purchasing a widescreen display in the near future and don't want to base that purchase on the dvd player's limitations.

    I didn't expect jvc to lower the bar.
     
  15. Steve Schaffer

    Steve Schaffer Producer

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    Lee,

    I think they are probably covering themselves in case someone with one of those early Hitachi sets has a problem.
    My JVC and the Panny CP-72 I use now both had similar disclaimers.

    Hitachi was not the only brand with prog-scan dvd compatibility issues, I think some early Sony, Pioneer, and maybe Mitsubishi HD ready sets had problems too. Some of the first Sony HD-ready sets would only work with Sony progressive scan players, but that was 2 or 3 model cycles ago. To the best of my knowledge no current sets have problems accepting 480p from any dvd player.



    I had my JVC connected to both an 01 model Hitachi 53UWX10B widescreen and an 01 Sony KP57HW40 and there was no incompatibility.

    The Hitachi sets with serial numbers ending in 89B (i.e. 53SDX89B and SWX89B) did have an issue with almost all progressive scan players and Hitachi issued a service bulletin to correct it.

    Sony models that had problems were in the XBR300 series, and haven't been sold new in the last 3 or 4 years.



    I'm convinced the disclaimer is only a concern for those with early model sets which had problems accepting 480p from any player, not just JVCs.

    The set mfgs have since gotten their act together so if you haven't gotten a set yet just don't buy a 2 or 3 model year old one and you'll be ok.

    If you're otherwise happy with your JVC, I don't see any reason to return it. Chances are that whatever else you buy will have a similar disclaimer in the manual. This isn't a lowering of the bar on the part of the dvd player mfgs, just a warning that the player won't work with some sets that the consumer may have bought a few years ago.

    If you want to be absolutely certain, return the JVC for a refund and don't buy another progressive scan player until after you've bought your new set.

    That way if a compatibility issue crops up (very very highly unlikely) you can start swapping for other makes of player.

    If you do a search around here I doubt you'll find anyone who's experienced a compatibility problem with a JVC or any other progressive scan player and any widescreen set built in the last couple of years. The OP on this thread only noticed that the auto squeeze mode didn't work on his Sony set with progressive scan input from his JVC. The analogous function on my Sony set doesn't work with progressive scan input from either my JVC or my Panasonic. This is a characteristic of the set and is easily enough gotten around by manually changing aspect ratios on the set. Most sets don't even have auto squeeze or auto full modes.


    This is not by any means the "incompatibility" spoken of in the disclaimer in your owner's manual. That issue usually showed up as intermittent bright flashes on the screen on those sets affected with the problem. The true incompatibility problem isn't with the players, it was with some early HD ready tv sets' inability to handle an incoming 480p signal properly.

    If you're gonna get this upset about disclaimers in owner's manuals, I hope you haven't read the one for your automobile!
    (that was meant to be humorous, Lee).
     
  16. lee/ing

    lee/ing Auditioning

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    I should have been more clear when I used the term "lower the bar."

    The 902 has four sets of seven (I think it was seven, UPS has it now) different parameters; Contrast, Gamma, Saturation, Tint, that sort of thing. Two of the sets can be tweaked to one's delight, or perhaps demise.

    While the brightness can be adjusted from near black to self-destruct bright, the sharpness can only be adjusted a notch or two. The default setting, +3, is as sharp as it will ever be, which is a bit soft compared to my old 701. The 701 has more artifacts in vertical lines than the 902, but the 902's image looked like it had a thin bit of translucent film over it, like gauze.

    And it sported seven very bright orange buttons above the disk tray, one of which would blink, that indicating which disk was being played. With one disk loaded, it was reminiscent of driving at night with a blinker on. I searched the manual immediately, there is no way to defeat it. JVC's full page ad in S&V desribes the player as looking "Sexy."

    The running lights, underneath the tray, were a soft fluorescent blue. Bright orange and light blue, what could the designers have been drinking?
     

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