Possibly buying a Denon. 2910, 2900 or 2220 (or better?) Why?

Discussion in 'Playback Devices' started by Sam_S, Jan 8, 2005.

  1. Sam_S

    Sam_S Agent

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    Just like the title says, I'm trying to figure out which Denon I want to go with.

    I hear the 2910 is having lots of problems that the firmware isn't helping, and that it's actually better to find a 2900 or a 2200. When I go to investigate those two then, I find the 2900 is more expensive then the 2200- but I'm not sure I can figure out why, or if it's worth it. Little help? What would you get out of the three? why?

    If someone can make the case to me, I might even splurge and get one of the even higher priced units like the 3910. The only benifit I see is the DVI hookup capability- and I'm not sure that's worth $500 exta to me. What am I missing?

    According to my sources, I can get a 2900 for around $490, and I can get the 2200 for around 300. The 2910 I'd have to shop around for online, so I'd be looking at the same deals you guys are (i.e. crutchfield's $650 unit).

    I'm not married to the idea of getting a Denon by any means, so if you have another idea for a different brand, then I'd love to hear it- but my goal here is to find a DVD player that will really show off my HD TV. I'm still caught between my desire to get an expensive unit, and then wait out the Blu Ray/HD-DVD wave until the players get cheaper- or if I want to get a cheaper DVD player now (i.e. the Denon 1900 or cheaper) and then get one of the first Blu Ray (or HD-DVD if it happens to show up first) players when it hits the US shores. Either way I'm going to be spending a bundle... so I suppose it's a question of instant gratification or gratification at a later date that will be more prolonged.

    Thanks for any guidence.

    ~Sam
     
  2. dpippel

    dpippel HTF Premium Member

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    These players have already been discussed, compared, and debated many, many times both here and in the DVD Players section at AVS Forum. In other words, your questions have already been answered and the Search function is your friend [​IMG]. Good luck with your decision.
     
  3. Sam_S

    Sam_S Agent

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    I knew better then to ask this question without expecting that reply. I'm sorry to have made you type it- I'm just so exhausted from mentally debating what route to purchase that I hoped someone would make my mind up for me.

    To splurge now, or splurge later... that is my problem, and even worse, I can't decided on what model is most worth splurging on!

    Anyway, sorry again.
     
  4. dpippel

    dpippel HTF Premium Member

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    Sam - Sorry if I sounded short. I didn't mean to, and only brought up the Search function in this instance because really, these players have been discussed so much you can hardly browse this section of the forum without tripping over them. [​IMG]

    Anyway, here's a quick summary of my opinion on these four:

    Denon DVD-2200: Great Silicon Image SiL504 deinterlacer, mediocre CD/SACD/DVD-A sound, mediocre build quality, no DVI/HDMI.
    Denon DVD-2900: Great Silicon Image SiL504 deinterlacer, very good CD/SACD/DVD-A performance, rock-solid build quality, no DVI/HDMI.
    Denon DVD-2910: Faroudja FLI2310 deinterlacer with macroblocking problems, mediocre CD/SACD/DVD-A performance, mediocre build quality, 720p/1080i upscaling over DVI or HDMI.
    Denon DVD-3910: Faroudja FLI2310 deinterlacer with macroblocking problems, fantastic CD/SACD/DVD-A performance, rock-solid build quality, 720p/1080i upscaling over DVI or HDMI.

    I've had both the 3910 and the 2900 and kept the 2900. I couldn't live with the macroblocking/splotching exhibited by the 3910. Other than that it was a solid machine.

    If I were in your place choosing amongst these four players, didn't need DVI/HDMI or upscaling capabilities, and wanted to save as much money as possible, I would go with the 2200 if only using the machine for video. If I needed quality CD and high-res audio reproduction as well I'd choose the 2900 (and I would consider the extra money it costs to be very well spent). The 2910 and 3910 wouldn't be in the running at all because of their video issues. If DVI/HDMI was important or necessary I would forgo the Denons completely and pick up a Pioneer DV-59AVi, which is also a phenomenal CD/SACD/DVD-A machine.

    Hope this helps.
     
  5. Sam_S

    Sam_S Agent

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    Doug- That was almost *EXACTLY* what I wanted to find out... I'm not kidding that you included every little bit of information I was trying to put together. Before I started this reply, I had Microsoft Word open, and I was copy/pasting a list of features from all 4 Denon units to comb through. I wasn't looking forward to having to remove all the duplicate features so I could find what I needed!

    Right now I guess it's between the 2900 and Pioneer DV-59Avi for me. After reading a thread on AVSforums, I think it will end up being the 2900- because it's confirmed that with the tweaks that the poster provided over there, I will see a certain fantastic picture with my Sony LCD RPTV. He doesn't seem to have experience with the Pioneer... so it'd be at my own risk that i picked it- and I think it's a more expensive unit- even though I prefer the idea of Pioneer to Denon for some reason.

    ANYWAY- thanks again so much. Now i just need to see if the Pioneer 59AVI has a Silicon Image SiL504 deinterlacer, or Faroudja FLI2310 deinterlacer. Apparently it matters, even if I don't understand why [​IMG]

    ~Sam
     
  6. dpippel

    dpippel HTF Premium Member

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    Glad I could help Sam. I think the 2900 is a great choice, particularly from a price/performance standpoint.

    To answer your question about the DV-59AVi, Pioneer uses a proprietary deinterlacer in that player that is *excellent*. I've also had the this machine in my rack and it is indeed a fantastic player. It's very flexible, features wonderful audio, has great deinterlacing and scaling (via HDMI), handles non-anamorphic and 4:3 material well and is plagued by none of the issues that haunt the Faroudja-based Denon players. However, at almost 1/2 the cost the 2900 really is hard to beat.

    Good luck man!
     
  7. BrianWoerndle

    BrianWoerndle Supporting Actor

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    Don't forget to mention that the 2200 and 2900 are lightning fast. The 2910 and 3910 are slower with navigation and layer changes.

    The 2900 was pretty much reguarded as the best player of its time (not including the $2000 5900 and other uber-expensive players). It was used as a reference that most people judged all other players by. At 480p it is about as good as it gets.

    The 3910 does just about everything the same or better than the 2900 except speed. Even 480p over DVI is supposed to be slightly better. So you can't really go wrong with the 3910.

    The 2910 does almost everything slightly worse than the 2900. But if you have a digital display that is natively 720p or 1080i then it might overshadow its shortfalls.

    If you have any type of CRT display, the 480p picture from the 2900 is still about as good as it gets, and for the price you can get it for now is a steal. I paid $1000 for my 2900.
     
  8. dpippel

    dpippel HTF Premium Member

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    Brian - Good point about the speed of menu navigation and seamless layer changes on the 2900/2200. I'm so used to it I forgot to mention it.

    [​IMG]

    Unless you and/or your display is sensitive to the macroblocking/splotchiness problem inherent in its Faroudja FLI2310 deinterlacer. For me it was bad enough to be a dealbreaker.
     
  9. Sam_S

    Sam_S Agent

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    Good info to have! It turns out, according to the guy who who's post I saw over at AVSforums (umr)- my Sony KDF-55WF655 is going to interact poorly with the Faroudja deinterlacers. I was hoping to find out which the DV-59avi was before I went shopping again... but no such luck yet. I'll have to ask at Tweeter and hope they can find a box in the back with the answer.

    Thanks for the help guys- if you've got more thoughts, keep 'em comin!
     
  10. dpippel

    dpippel HTF Premium Member

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    Sam - I answered your question about the DV-59AVi four posts above this one. It uses a proprietary Pioneer deinterlacer, NOT Faroudja.
     
  11. Sam_S

    Sam_S Agent

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    Ahh.. sorry about that. I was under the impression it was either Faroudja or SiL504- I didn't even stop to think that it might not be either :b

    I think I'm going to pull the trigger on a $600 Denon 2900. Now I just need to find that page with umr's tweaks, and then all will be left is speaker placement issues (i have an odd shaped room that I don't think will allow me to have even a 5.1 surround- much less the 7.1 I wanted eventually).

    My HT is coming together, and I'm stoked! Thanks.

    ~Sam
     
  12. PerryD

    PerryD Supporting Actor

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    Nevermind...
     
  13. Sam_S

    Sam_S Agent

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    I'm sorry if I was unclear earlier... The tweaks I mentioned are related to the Sony WGIV TV that I have, and it's poor interaction with certain DVD players- not the DVD players themselves. Umr (I believe) is an ISF tech, and mearly published his results and "typical fixes" to get the best results... he doesn't mess with the 2900 itself.

    If that wasn't what you meant, please rephrase and maybe I can help?

    ~Sam
     
  14. dpippel

    dpippel HTF Premium Member

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    That's really cool Sam. Whether you end up with the DV-59AVi or the 2900 doesn't really matter. Both are top-notch players that will give you an awesome home theater and high-res audio experience. Whatever you get, enjoy it!
     
  15. Sam_S

    Sam_S Agent

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    Now I'm debating between getting a refurb Denon DVD-3800 (knowing i'll have to send it in at least once for repair), and getting the 2900.

    Is there any retailer that has an extended return policy? I was hoping I could just buy both... compare... and while my 3800 is getting repaired, use the 2900- and return it when the 3800 returns?

    I also wonder what deinterlacer the 5900 uses...

    Any thoughts?
     
  16. dpippel

    dpippel HTF Premium Member

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    Be careful on the 3800. If you're not buying from an authorized Denon dealer or authorized Denon online retailer you may have a hard time getting them to replace the laser assembly and correct the Y/C delay problem. It's a good player if you can get it fixed, but it's not nearly as good on Redbook CD reproduction as the 2900 and it doesn't do SACD.

    The 5900 uses the Faroudja FLI2310 deinterlacer and has the macroblocking problem. In fact, I believe it was the first player on the market that exhibited the defect. If you do a search at AVS Forum you'll find thousands (literally) of posts about macroblocking and the 5900.

    I've owned all of these players by the way. I'm a chronic upgrader. [​IMG]
     
  17. Sam_S

    Sam_S Agent

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    Ah. Thanks for the info yet again. If I do decide to get the refurb 3800- it would be from an autherized dealer. It was searching on the AVS Forums that actually led me to find the offer. It was slightly scary to see the length of some of the turnaround times... but if I remember correctly, at the end of those 22 pages- most of the people who ordered the refurb unit had playsers that worked just fine.

    Some also talked about getting "upgrades" at the time of repair- having parts from the 9000 series unit installed, rather then the stock 3800... but they also never said how much that cost, and apparently weren't given an estimate from Denon before they had to agree to ship their unit and pay.

    I guess I just have to figure out how much better a full patched 3800 is then a 2900. This player has to last until the next gamesystem platform war! (Not the "next xbox" VS "playstation 3" one, either! We're talkin the next one after that!) I figure that's where i'll get my blue ray and hd-dvd format players (the game systems) for the introduction of the formats... and i'll pull the trigger (finally) on a nice DVD player similar to what the 2900 is to the market today once the platform wars end for that year.

    That is, unless Microsoft *doesn't* adopt HD-DVD like I've been hearing they will... but this is a completely different thread topic [​IMG]

    ~Sam
     

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