possible to do a budget set of seperates?

Discussion in 'AV Receivers' started by Chris Brock, Apr 2, 2004.

  1. Chris Brock

    Chris Brock Second Unit

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    well the more and more i reasearch it the more i am becoming intregued with the idea of going with seperates. It seems like quality amps are always avialable on ebay, for instance I could get an Adcom GFA-5006 and bridge it to provide 175 x 3 for the front stage and then get an Adcom GFA-2535 and use its 60 x 4 for the surround channels. i could get both of these for a total of about $650 on ebay. the thing that is worrying me is getting a good pre/pro at an affodable price. is this possible to do? the beauty of this type of setup is that i do not have to buy everything all at once. i can buy one thing at a time so it isnt one big hit on my pocket book.

    also somthing i have never understood, why dont some of the major reciever manufacturers make models without amps? like take Yamaha, why dont they make a RX-V1400 just witout the amp section? that seems liek it would be simple!

    thanks for any help of opinions!!

    chris
     
  2. Chris Brock

    Chris Brock Second Unit

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    how well would an HK AVR230 work for a pre/pro? it has 7.1 outputs and seems to have alot of the same features as the more expensive HK's only with less power, which with seperates wouldnt matter. any thoughts on this?
     
  3. Allen Longcor

    Allen Longcor Supporting Actor

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    A lot of people use receivers as pre-pros and love it. Set a price point and find one with all the features that you want. My advice would be to buy an amp that you want to keep for many years. Receivers will always have new surround modes and inputs, but a good amp can last you a long long time.
     
  4. Wayne Ernst

    Wayne Ernst Cinematographer

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    I think it would be a bit lacking because the 230 would not have the bass management that the 630 would have. Then again, if you're not going to listen to DVD-A or SACD music, this would not really be an issue.

    But, Chris, also look into the newer Yamaha receivers that are coming out in a few weeks (RX-V650, 750, HTR-5760 and 5790). They are all going to feature DPL IIx, 9 bands for the sub crossover, a built-in phase switch for the sub, YPAO for setting up your system, etc. It really seems to me like all of these nice features would make for an excellent pre/pro. Best of all, the HTR-5760 can be had for $399 with free shipping from J&R. I don't think you'd get the H/K AVR-230 for near that price - unless it was a refubished model.

    If you have a few $$ available, you could look into a used Outlaw 950 which can be spotted for the low $600 range from time-to-time.
     
  5. Steve Adams

    Steve Adams Second Unit

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    I agree with wayne, get a used outlaw. or an older newcastle pre/pro for pretty cheap now. if your only doing 5.1 you will be perfectly happy with either one of these pre/pro's!
     
  6. Chris Brock

    Chris Brock Second Unit

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    thanks for all the responses!! does anybody know if any of the new yamaha's will be avialable at best buy? my best frined from HS is a manger there now and has gotten me things in the past at his discount price. that would be ideal!!

    does anyone see any problems with the amps i am considering? the Adcom GFA 5006 and GFA 2535? that would mean my final amp line up would consist of the 5006 power the LF Center and RF, the 2535 powering the 4 surround channels and a Nady XA-900 powering a 4 tempest IB subwoofer. needless to say i am getting very excited!!!:b :b
     
  7. Wayne Ernst

    Wayne Ernst Cinematographer

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    Chris,

    I'm sure Best Buy will carry the new versions of the "HTR" line from Yamaha once the models get into the supply chain. They don't carry the RX-V series, though.

    Comparing the two, it looks like the following:

    HTR-5760 = RX-V650
    HTR-5790 > RX-V750 (or, at least it appeared the 5790 was slightly better on the specs sheet.)
     
  8. Chris Brock

    Chris Brock Second Unit

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    OH WOW!! the HTR-5760 is it. it has every single thing on my wish list. thanks alot for that suggestion!! it is hard to believe that a reciever that many features is priced in the catagory. alot of those are features that are only avialable on recievers that are much more expensive right now. anybody know a realse date for the new HTR models?

    hold that thought though. the 5790 does seem to have quite a bit more processing capabilities and it is THX Select. hmmmmmmmm
     
  9. Wayne Ernst

    Wayne Ernst Cinematographer

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    Chris, Here's a link to the specs for the HTR-5760:

    New Yamaha HTR Receivers

    I placed my "pre" order with J&R today for the 5760. According to the sales rep, J&R only puts items on their Web site when the items will soon be in inventory. With that being said, it looks like it will be a couple of weeks before I see mine.

    Additionally, the new HTR-5750 is now present on eBay for a buy it now price of $299. This is for the silver model - the black model doesn't appear to be in stock yet.
     
  10. Chris Brock

    Chris Brock Second Unit

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    [​IMG]

    :b [​IMG] :b [​IMG] :b [​IMG] :b
     
  11. Wayne Ernst

    Wayne Ernst Cinematographer

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    HTR-5760 Back Panel

    It looks like the HTR-5760 does not include the 12V trigger like the RXV-650 does. Then again, if one is going to use a separate power amp, there are other options for "triggering" or having the amp power on when needed.
     
  12. Tim Hoover

    Tim Hoover Screenwriter

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    As far as multichannel amps go, OneCall is offering a clearance on a Carver 80x5 amp for around $280. If I didn't already have separates I would personally jump all over this one [​IMG]
     
  13. Chris Brock

    Chris Brock Second Unit

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    actually after looking at the spec sheet you sent ove wayne, thee doesnt see to be any difference in the processing capabilities between the 5760 and the 5790. the only thing i can see different is that the 5790 is THX select.

    the 5790 is now on the Best Buy website by the way! but i am thinking like you wayne on the 5760. i dont see enough of a difference in features to justify the difference in cost.
     
  14. Ricky T

    Ricky T Supporting Actor

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    Bridging usually decreases overall sound quality, the only amp I would consider bridging for my mains are the Citation 5.1 and 7.1 amps. My first budget separates in 1998 was a Adcom 5300 80x2 and the Adcom 2535; the 2535 is ok, but not a beefy amp.

    A Parasound 806 80x6 would work great in a budget separates system, and IMO outperform the Adcom 506/2535 in driving 6 speakers (and for less money). If your mains are biampable and you have the receiver drive some of the rear speakers, you can use two Parasound channels to biamp your mains and increase overall power going to them.

    I am selling a Parasound 806 80x6 (in hardware for sale section). Has been driving my four surrounds; I am selling because I am upgrading to Aragon 8008/8002 amps.

    http://www.parasound.com/service_inf...d/hca806A.html
     
  15. Joshua H

    Joshua H Stunt Coordinator

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    Well rather than start another cheap seps thread I'll drop my Q's in here:

    Anyone else agree that bridging noticably degrades sq? Adcom's own website advertises the 5006 as ideal for bridging to power the front 3 channels. I was just looking at the PA4000-Z at harmanaudio.com, which could push 100x3(bridged) and 45x2 for surrounds. How are HK amps in general?

    Also-- With a Marantz SR5400, benched to push 80x5 all channels driven, would adding the Carver amp Tim Hoover posted make an appreciable difference? What about added to a Yam-rxv1400? (I'm considering these receivers.) Would it be better to just put the money into a better receiver?
     
  16. Chris Brock

    Chris Brock Second Unit

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    you are the first one to say that bridging an amp is not a wise thing to do for sq. does anyone else care to ring in on this? i have bridged car amplifiers countless times and i have never noticed a degrade in sq, only increased headroom and authority from the gain in power.
     
  17. Ricky T

    Ricky T Supporting Actor

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    Suppose a 6 ohm speaker fluctuates between 8 and 4 ohms.
    An amp does 100 watts into 8 ohms and 150 watts into 4 ohms. In bridged mode, it does 250 watts into 8 ohms...most manufacturers will not even spec bridged power into 4 ohms because when the speaker demands 4 ohms, each channel is seeing a very difficult 2 ohm load.

    Also, when I had the Adcom 2535, I thought the bridged 200 watts sounded worse than the unbridged 60 watts on my center channel.
     
  18. Paul.S

    Paul.S Producer

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    Chris, this is a good question and since no one chimed in on it specifically I'll toss my 1.5 cents in.

    I think it has to do with a retreat from the middle market by many manufacturers as DVD has become stunningly popular.

    I've been an audio/home theater hobbyist for about 20 years. So far, my interests have always severely outpaced my means. I was fortunate enough to spend formative years in San Antonio, Texas, home of Bjorn's Audio Video, a nationally reknowned a/v retailer. Bjorn was doing home theater before there was Home Theater. Back before Yamaha's DSP-1 digital sound processor was released.

    Back then Yamaha did indeed make a line of dedicated amps (largely 2 ch of course). I have one, the awesome M-85 (2x250). This was their top of the line amp circa 1988. $1200.

    With the advent and runaway popularity of DVD, manus such as Yamaha have largely abandoned separates and pursued the receiver market. This, combined with the HTiB movement (driven esp. in the past 2 years by very inexpensive Korean and Chinese DVD players sold in supermarkets for < $100), has translated into a significant abandonment of the middle: companies are either pursuing the higher end (including separates), or the "lower" end. Why? I think it quite simply is about money/profitabilty.

    It's of course a significant part of what makes going the separates route more expensive: to my knowledge, there are only a handful of manus making "reasonably" priced flexible, full-featured pre/pros (Newcastle, Outlaw . . .?) for those who don't want/can't afford to buy a Lexicon.

    -p
     
  19. JamieS

    JamieS Stunt Coordinator

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    How about another alternative in a move towards separates.

    Use both and external amp and the receiever ampms!

    I make this suggestion because it works well for me.

    If the receiver channels can be reassigned even better.

    You could buy a good 2ch on 3ch amp and use a receiver as the pre prop and let the receiver amps drive the surrounds. After all the receiver has ampms in it already and with the "load" for the mains being taken off by the separate amp it likley will have no problems driving the surrounds. The issue with receievers is often that they may say 100 W x 5 but really only output 100 w with one or two ch driven at the same time. If all 5 (or 7) ch are driven they fall to say 30 w. Not good.

    If you have an amp that will do 100 w x 3 up front and the receiver amp will do 100 x 2 well lok at that you have 100 w X5!

    I'm not saying these are exact figures but unless you are doing critical 5 ch music listening why pay for amps in the reciever you don't use and buy a cheap low (lower?) powered amp for the rear.

    I have a Rotel RSX 1055 (which admittedly is not cheap and is a good pre/pro in its own right). With a used Parasound 140W x 3 ch amp for the fronts with the rears powerd by the rotel. With it only driving 2ch I gather that the rotel does close to 100w per. This was a less expensive solution than a 1066 pre pro and a rotel 1075 amp AND I still have amp channels left over if I wanted to go 7.1.
     

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