Poseidon....Wave???

Discussion in 'Movies' started by Tyler Gagnon, Mar 29, 2006.

  1. Tyler Gagnon

    Tyler Gagnon Stunt Coordinator

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    A freind and i were veiwing the latest trailer of the movie
    And got into a discussion on wether or no it was possible for a wave to break like that in the middle of the ocean...Would it not have to be close to the shoreline to start climbing like that? Or maybe i should just go with it for the movies sake. I Think the movie looks great other wise....But he is all about the realism...
     
  2. MarkMel

    MarkMel Screenwriter

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  3. Don Solosan

    Don Solosan Supporting Actor

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    I didn't see anything in those pages on rogue waves to indicate that they're breaking waves, which is what happens in Poseidon. And my understanding is that for a wave to break like that, it has to basically "trip" on the ocean floor, a reef, whatever. There's a ratio between the height of the wave and the depth of the water that will tell you when the wave will break. So yes, it's largely a coastal thing.

    I think the same complaint came out when the original movie showed, that a ship out in deep water is not going to encounter a breaking wave like that (and an experienced captain should know not to turn side on to a huge wave -- breaking or not -- for obvious reasons).

    I say just try to get past that little gaff and enjoy the drama in an upside-down ship!
     
  4. Kirk Gunn

    Kirk Gunn Screenwriter

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    Wasn't the original based in the Med which is relatively shallow ?



    You got that one right....

    On my last trip to Blockbuster, I noticed a Posiedon movie where terrorists blow it up to make it turn turtle. Looked pretty much "made for tv".... anyone seen that version ?
     
  5. PhilipW

    PhilipW Second Unit

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    Actually about 100 miles off the coast of San Diego there is a reef that comes up to within a few feet of the surface.

    When tsunami's or storms happen on the other side of the pacific, surfers will calculate how long before the swells will make the reef. Then they load up on waverunners and helicopters and go out for 75 to 100 foot waves.

    Read this in one of those magazines on a flight. Pretty fascinating.
     
  6. John Doran

    John Doran Screenwriter

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    wikipedia has an article that seems a little more informative:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freak_wave

    it appears as though these "freak waves" do, in fact, break in the middle of the ocean.

    i was wondering exactly the same thing when i saw the poseidon trailer, but then i was assuming that they were depicting a tsunami...

    interesting. you learn something new every day...
     
  7. Brett_M

    Brett_M Screenwriter

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    Ocean waves with amplitudes like those shown in the trailer for Posiedon can be created in a few ways:

    1. Asteroid/Meteoroid/Comet Impact
    2. Mountain Landslide into a lake or inlet
    3. Tsunami from undersea earthquake or landslide
    4. High Wind Speed + Long Duration + Large Fetch (distance of open water over which the wind blows)

    Due to the above influeneces, ocean waves can have extremely long wavelengths. When these waves get near the coastline, the wavelength decreases rapidly, causing the amplitude or wave height to increase. In the deep ocean, waves do not break as shown in the trailer.

    In the original, it was called a tidal wave -- which is an impossibility. The tides are caused by the pull of gravity of the moon and the sun as well as the rotation of the earth and depth of the water--no matter what, the tides could never produce a single, giant wave.

    Another response mentioned the Med being shallower and maye that caused the giant wave in the original. The average depth of the Med is 1500m (just shy of a mile). It's greatest depth is 5267 m (over 3 miles). Plenty deep enough.

    Does it matter? It looks like a great cast, great production value and it should be a fun ride.

    Suspension of disbelief is the operative phrase.
     
  8. Brett_M

    Brett_M Screenwriter

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    That Wikipedia article was really good but I did not sea any mention of the freak wave breaking as if near shore.

    For a wave to break, the wave amplitude is no longer sustainable due to a shallowing of the sea bed. It collapses like a house of cards.
     
  9. Brett_M

    Brett_M Screenwriter

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    According to the plot outline at Joblo.com:

    "When a rogue wave capsizes a luxury cruise ship in the middle of the North Atlantic Ocean, a small group of survivors find themselves unlikely allies in a battle for their lives."

    My bet is an underwater earthquake or storm off the coast of Europe creating the wave.
     
  10. todd s

    todd s Lead Actor

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    Their was a show on rogue waves a few months ago on one of the Discovery channels. It said that rogue waves are not as uncommon as most believe. Actually, they are very common.
     
  11. Mikel_Cooperman

    Mikel_Cooperman Producer

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    It's a movie. I would suspend your belief a bit before going in.
     
  12. Holadem

    Holadem Lead Actor

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    That's why we don't believe it [​IMG].

    --
    H
     
  13. Tyler Gagnon

    Tyler Gagnon Stunt Coordinator

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    From the IMDB Trivia Section.
     
  14. JeremyErwin

    JeremyErwin Producer

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    Tsunamis are often called "tidal waves" by the uninformed.
     
  15. Kirk Gunn

    Kirk Gunn Screenwriter

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    Not that I'm trying to defend the original, but places where cruise ships frequent (Greek Isles, Adriatic, etc) average much shallower. The average depth of the Atlantic dwarfs the Med, but tell that to a cruise ship captain in the Caribbean. Human nature has an uncanny ability to negate the law of averages.
     
  16. todd s

    todd s Lead Actor

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    What's next Mikel? Your gonna tell me Star Trek, Superman & The Matrix aren't real???? King Kong was true..But, it was suppressed by the government. [​IMG]
     
  17. John Doran

    John Doran Screenwriter

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    from the wikipedia article:

    According to some research, it is completely feasible to have a freak wave occur by natural, nonlinear processes from a random background of smaller waves. In such a case, it is hypothesised, an unusual, unstable wave type may form which 'sucks' energy from other waves, growing to a near-vertical monster itself, before becoming too unstable and collapsing shortly after. This is modelled by a wave equation known as the nonlinear Schrödinger equation (NLS), in which a normal and perfectly accountable (by the standard linear model) wave begins to 'soak' energy from the waves immediately fore and aft, reducing them to minor ripples compared to other waves. Such a monster, and the abyssal trough commonly seen before and after it, may last only for some minutes before either breaking, or reducing in size again.
     
  18. Mary M S

    Mary M S Screenwriter

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    From Plot Summary above: capsizes a luxury cruise ship in the middle of the North Atlantic Ocean

    It’s probable these can “break” on occasion with the sheer height of some documented rogues. But the net effect regardless, of a ship hitting a vertical wall of water, is a wave ‘break’ across the ship.

    1995, an instrument onboard the Draupner oil rig in the North Sea recorded an 85-foot wave.
    In 2001, two cruise ships in the South Atlantic -- the Bremen and the Caledonian Star -- reported that their bridge windows were smashed by 100-foot rogue waves. (larger waves than the gov. links below, I believe the Bremen while not capsized was dead-in-the water 2 hrs).

    …”At 2000 on April 15, the watch officer noted winds from the north-northwest. The ship’s navigation data show that the vessel’s speed over the ground was 15.7 knots. According to the chief engineer and the engine log, the ship’s propulsion tripped briefly around 2015 when the propellers on the propulsion drives came out of the water as the ship pitched…. At 0610 on April 16, the ship was making 7 knots over the ground. The wind and sea conditions had eased slightly, according to ship’s officers and log entries. However, the watch officer on the bridge observed the vessel pitching and saw the bow start to plow into the seas. The master, who had been on the bridge throughout the night, told investigators that he felt the ship pitch three times in succession. The watch officer stated that all the waves were very large, and that all were roughly the same height. On the third wave, he said, the ship’s bow took heavy green seas, which at 0615 cascaded directly over the bow and struck the forward part of the vessel’s superstructure.
    http://www.ntsb.gov/publictn/2005/MAB0503.htm Incident April 16, 2005, Atlantic Ocean, 120 miles east of Charleston, South Carolina

    Oriana North Atlantic Sept 28, 2000. http://www.maib.dft.gov.uk/cms_resou...ety_507699.pdf

    Pic of a small rogue wave.

    Good article.
    And here.

    edit: the "aricle" link appears not to funtion if interested type or paste: www. esa.int/esaCP/SEMOKQL26WD_index_0.html
     
  19. Kirk Gunn

    Kirk Gunn Screenwriter

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    Very cool articles Mary - thanks !
     
  20. Greg.K

    Greg.K Screenwriter

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    Isn't this pretty much what they think happened to the Andrea Gail (the ship in "The Perfect Storm") and depicted in that movie? Not so farfetched.
     

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