POPPING nuisance with HSU VTF-3 (flamers welcome)

Discussion in 'Speakers & Subwoofers' started by Mike Sloan, Jun 2, 2003.

  1. Mike Sloan

    Mike Sloan Second Unit

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    I am in no way trying to diminish the performance of the VTF-3 sub. It is a GREAT product! That said, I have received numerous emails regarding the POPPING nuisance that the VTF-3 amp exhibits. My VTF3's are working....or sounding just fine...its just that household appliance noise that exists in the AC line causes the subs to "burp and pop." If I turn on the ceiling fan...the subs will pop. If my wife turns on her hair dryer...I can hear a pop...if I turn off the power to the sub (switch on back of unit) it will pop. I can actually get the subs to come out of their "sleep/standby mode" by turning on the ceiling fan and rotating the speed selector switch...that is just goofy! HSU says that this is not a problem, won't hurt the sub, and is normal because of the sensitivity of the amp. The thing Is I have had several SVS, M&K, Velodyne subs hooked into the exact AC circuit that did not exhibit this problem. I believe this is a design problem with the VTF-3 amp and to date I am not aware that Dr. HSU has even acknowledged that a problem exists? I have received numerous letters from HSU customers who have fixed "THE PROBLEM" ...message below:

    Mike,
    I have experienced the same noise on turn off if the led was green. One problem is caused by arcing as the power switch opens. You can resolve it completely by putting a . 01 kV disc cap across each leg of the power switch. This will suppress the spark! I also suggest a . 01 kV disc cap across the AC mains input. This helps to keep line interference from entering the amplifier. I have done 3 things to my VTF-3 amplifier to eliminate line noise pops:


    (1) I floated the ground on the amplifier chassis and plugged the cord directly into the power source.

    (2) I verified that the absolute phase was wrong and corrected the polarity of the AC mains input wiring.

    (3) I also installed the . 01 disc
    cap across the mains input. This cleared up
    popping noises I would get when other appliances were switched on or off.


    >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
    WHAT IS THE DEAL HERE?????? We just have to live with this...because.....ahhhh...it's inherent in the design sensitivity of the amp??? Seriously...is that the only answer?

    Mike Sloan "A satisfied HSU customer "
     
  2. Kyle Richardson

    Kyle Richardson Screenwriter

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    Well, I'm not sure if thats the only answer, but I do know that some of my plate amps will turn on when I turn on an electical item while others do not. Some are just much more sensitive to electrical noise than others. Can this sensitivity be altered? Not sure about that one.
     
  3. MikeLi

    MikeLi Supporting Actor

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    How about a dedicated circuit for your HT gear.... That is becomming the norm now.
     
  4. Nick L

    Nick L Second Unit

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    My old sub used to do the same thing, until I plugged it into a Monster Power Center. This is the one I used to have and this is the one I have now. I love these things. Where it helped the most was the TV though. The picture looks much better now having no noise on the ac line. After I plugged my sub into the power center there were no more pops. The main reason for the upgrade was to get all the power cords off of the floor.
     
  5. Bolivar G

    Bolivar G Second Unit

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    My VTF-3 Hums when the light is green. I'm not really getting the popping sounds from it. Have everything plugged in to a panamax 5300.
    Is the humming supposed to be normal?? Can only hear it when I shut everything off and sometimes the light stays green for an hour after I have finished watching a movie and shut down everything else, including the receiver.
     
  6. Mike Sloan

    Mike Sloan Second Unit

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    MY VTF-3'S both hum but it is pretty quiet. You have to get about a foot away in a silent room to hear it. My green light stays on for 45-60 minutes after shutdown...pretty normal.
     
  7. Bolivar G

    Bolivar G Second Unit

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    I wasnt sure if there was something wrong with my amp or not cuss everything else works perfect when watching movies. Just hate to hear the humming after everything has been shut down. Like you said its not loud but now that I know its there , I can easily hear it every time now.
    There is one thing that I can use to get my vtf-3 to do the poping sound. If I use my paper shredder it makes the poping sound. Everything else I seem to be ok.
     
  8. Mike Sloan

    Mike Sloan Second Unit

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    Bolivar G....the paper shredder...I may try and install a different fan switch with a slider control...may reduce AC transients? The thing that bugs me is that I have a SVS 20-39PC+ plugged into the same circuit...and it is dead quiet and is not effected by AC line disturbances! Perplexing!
     
  9. Chu Gai

    Chu Gai Lead Actor

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    are all the things that are making the sub 'pop' on the same circuit?
     
  10. Brian L

    Brian L Cinematographer

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    Hey Mike, a new dragon to slay, eh? Guess we can't beat up our 45A's BM forever, can we?

    FWIW, I will offer two comments:

    1. My old Klipsch sub would (and still does) make noise when certain electrical equipment is switched on/off, such as ceiling fans.

    2. I think I have the same amp as you have in the VTF-3, but it is connected to a TN1225. HSU sold it to me cheap when the original 250 amp (the previous version box mounted version of their 250) failed for the 2nd time.

    It does make noise when the ceiling fan is switched on, and it does emit a very low level hum whenever it is plugged in. Even with the signal wire disconnect, it humms. With the ground lifted, it humms less than going straight into the wall, but it is audible if the room is very quiet.

    My feelings about HSU are that they have 1st rate customer service and support. I have actually had Dr. Hsu respond to my e-mails. They replaced my first amp for free, and then when #2 died out of warranty (by a couple years), they sold me their newest 250 model, with full warranty, for 1/2 price.

    On the other hand, the quality of some of there stuff, particularly their amps (which for the record I think are outsourced) is not that great.

    BGL
     
  11. Bolivar G

    Bolivar G Second Unit

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    Yea the paper shredder is being used off the same line. But there is also a refrigarator pluged in on the same line that doesnt cause any problems..
     
  12. Chu Gai

    Chu Gai Lead Actor

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    Well that simply means that your fridge is generating any signals, either via the air or through the AC lines that can cause any problem.
    The general approach to these sort of problems would begin by looking towards running a separate line for your HT. Also, if possible, offending devices such as shredders could be moved to a different location. Switches, the on-off type, that cause clicks or pops in your system, are 'bouncing' internally, creating a momentary burst of EMI/RFI that might be getting into your system a variety of ways. A trip to your local electrical supply house, HD if you're lucky enough to find someone who actually knows something, to discuss what you're observing/hearing will allow them to suggest a quiet switch that won't cause these problems.
    Dimmers that are on the wall, especially if they came with your house, are construction grade and cheap as hell. Look over at www.lutron.com and you'll find a variety of products in the dimmer switch area, that effectively deal with noisy, EMI emitting, dimming switches. It's an easy replacement for most everyone. It's more problematical with stand alone torchiers especially the halogen variety. Short of buying a better one, my recommendation is to move it somewhere.
    In the case where one sub had the problem and the other didn't, provided you had used the same cable in both cases, the problem lies in the power supplies. Some are just better at rejecting noise. If you're handy, you can try the approaches that involved adding capacitors. I'd contact the manufacturer and ask for guidance in selecting appropriate values and where they'd best be placed. For hum problems, so long as it wasn't due a ground loop that was introduced because you've got your TV cable or satellite hooked into your system (easy to find out...simply disconnect the cables going into your system and listen) this can be either just the way things are with that particular brand or it could be a problem due to your electrical wiring. This is most often seen when one has toroids in their power supplies and can be due to something like an offset voltage that the supply can't handle. Paradigm I'm told has a product for their subs where people have noticed hums that you can get free of charge. Again, a call to the manufacturer may provide a free fix for this problem.
     
  13. Mike Sloan

    Mike Sloan Second Unit

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    This is way off topic...but does anyone know who bob23_60201
    is? I have posted these same concens (regarding the VTF-3) over at "another forum" and have been getting some veeeeeery interesting responses....and now PM's from a bob23_60201! Can anyone shed light on this individual...he is starting to behave in a fashion that is creepy!
     
  14. Chu Gai

    Chu Gai Lead Actor

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    Oh god, a stalker!!!! why don't you post some of his replies here or a link to the 'other' site?
     
  15. Mike Sloan

    Mike Sloan Second Unit

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    Well...I found out that bob23_60201 is the same bob that we have over here...Bob_A...you know the one where someone started the thread...."lets buy Bob an SVS." here are a few of his pithy PM comments to me regarding my "popping" issue with the VTF3...and you have to know that I was not asking for his advise.

    PITHY EXCERPTS FROM Bob_A or bob23_60201 "SUPER HSU MAN":
    ...............
    Have you ever thought of visiting a psychiatrist or something? Looking at your most recent responses, I think you really need to get some help. As people get older, they sometimes get more irrational and angry at the world.

    if a freaking subwoofer can get you to act like a petulant child, I think it's time to reconsider your priorities in life. Just a thought.

    Mike, the more you speak, the more I know that you are not really interested in discussing in a rational manner.

    Unfortunately it is usually Hsu who gets the raw deal, because Dr. Hsu and Sasha don't spend 8 hours a day posting on public forums to promote and market their products.

    You come to Hsu's very own forum and you make belittling comments to representatives of Hsu (for example: "so your products are designed to snap, crackle, and pop at the most miniscule of line disturbances"), and you seem to mention SVS in practically every post on the freaking Hsu forum (for example: SVS would have answered this in hours)!!! And how can we forget sometimes how you hype up SVS on HTF

    Mike, I've had a strong suspicion for a long time that you are infatuated with SVS. Certainly no surprise to hear your comments here.

    your public rants about the VTF-3, it really does a disservice to Hsu and it really doesn't do anything good to solve your problem.


    Obviously a VTF-3 might not be able to be pushed as much an an Ultra. But don't assume that a bigger driver = better product. It is the system design as a whole that is most important. The Hsu's 12 inch driver actually has a larger magnet structure than the CS Ultra TV-12 driver. I have read user accounts claiming that the VTF-3 is more musical than the Ultra.
    ...............................

    That is just a sample of what I got from my private messages from bob23_60201 over at AVS. Should I lock my doors and beef up security.[​IMG]
     
  16. Chu Gai

    Chu Gai Lead Actor

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    I don't know, I think it's kinda funny actually. Maybe he goes to NBA games and heckles the players and refs?
     
  17. Mike Sloan

    Mike Sloan Second Unit

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    Ya...I have been messing with him and he really starts to loose it. Whats funny is that I did a little behind the scenes research and any thread that mentions HSU...he will eventually chime in...with some out of context reference to how good the TN1220's are.... I was told from many members here and over at AVS that he is a "thread stalker" and eventually it will get ugly. I guess his fights with Tom V.(SVS) have been legendary..one sided, however. I think he was banned from this forum...but is here again under a new screen name. I think he is Bob_A over here. His most recent PM to me is below:
    ....................

    Mike
    Have you ever thought of visiting a psychiatrist or something? Looking at your most recent responses, I think you really need to get some help. As people get older, they sometimes get more irrational and angry at the world.

    I don't know how many times I have to explain this to you, but here is what is clear:

    1) You own the VTF-3 and SVS. Duh. I'm sure Tom V at SVS does also.
    2) You have been inconsistent with your public VS. private responses. I have seen you post at HTF about how the "20-39PC+ is better for HT and music than VTF-3", and yet in private you say the VTF-3 is more musical with more punch (and when you get pressed at AVS, you say something in between).
    3) You seem to refuse to listen to any rational solutions to your problem, such as reducing the sensitivity of the VTF-3 amp or getting the new and higher quality 500 watt amp.

    Anyway, in conclusion, if a freaking subwoofer can get you to act like a petulant child, I think it's time to reconsider your priorities in life. Just a thought.

    ..............................

    I probably should stop antagonizing him!
     
  18. Bolivar G

    Bolivar G Second Unit

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    Strange Fellow.
     

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