Poll: What to do with your Colorized IAWL Blu-ray disc (1 Viewer)

[Dick]

Sorry, I don't get that some people, even if lacking all knowledge of cinematography, film history, directorial intent, pictorial quality, and the beauty and moods produced by fine black and white images, would want to settle for these bastardized, pasty, inaccurate and distracting "colorized" transfers , would be so completely cool with the horrifying efforts like of outfits like Legend to debase what an audience is supposed to see. The Ray Harryhausen commentaries on several of his early b&w classics suggests that he was actually complicit in this process (saying time and time again that, had he been able to make the films in color, he'd have done so because these colorized versions are so wonderful). But I can't believe he wasn't pushed into these statements by Legend or Sony in order to get these discs remastered for Blu-ray. When one overlays crappy computerized color over black and white, the natural grey-scale grades and contrast disappear...you can't gain them back simply by dialing back the color on your display. Some people think these colorized editions look oh-so-much-better than any previous attempts at the process, but to me, they all totally suck, and I think this whole procedure should be banned. But, hey, what do I know?

 

[TJPC]

I, on the other hand, carefully store the B & W version and watch only the colorized discs. They are always of movies I have seen a hundred times — like the Harryhausen ones, and since I have done my “B & W” duty already, I can now enjoy them in a new way. It reminds me of finally getting a colour TV after years of only monochrome.

 

[Dick]

I, on the other hand, carefully store the B & W version and watch only the colorized discs. They are always of movies I have seen a hundred times — like the Harryhausen ones, and since I have done my “B & W” duty already, I can now enjoy them in a new way. It reminds me of finally getting a colour TV after years of only monochrome.

Each to his own, sir.

 

[ScottHM]

Sorry, I don't get that some people... would be so completely cool with the horrifying efforts like of outfits like Legend to debase what an audience is supposed to see.

People are "supposed to see" a film in a theater with a large audience. Is this the way you watch all your movies?

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[TJPC]

Each to his own, sir.

Indeed. The problem we all have is trying not to be all pissed off because we don’t rule the world!

 

[RMajidi]

The Ray Harryhausen commentaries on several of his early b&w classics suggests that he was actually complicit in this process (saying time and time again that, had he been able to make the films in color, he'd have done so because these colorized versions are so wonderful). But I can't believe he wasn't pushed into these statements by Legend or Sony in order to get these discs remastered for Blu-ray.

To be clear, are you saying that in your view there is a much greater likelihood that Ray Harryhausen was a lying sellout than that he was sincere in seeing some of his works presented in colour?

...and if so, are you basing this on the contention that your subjective view of colourisation therefore precludes Mr Harryhausen’s sincerity?

 

[David Weicker]

I don't care about the colorized version in the BD package, but it's annoying they didn't include the restored B&W BD with the 4K!

I've seen this asked, but I don't understand why.

If you have a 4K setup, why do you need the Blu-Ray? If you don't have 4K, why not just purchase the Blu-Ray. If you're 'future-proofing', there's no guarantee that 2019's release will be the best when you do around to upgrading to 4k (or 8K, etc.)

Its seems different than including a DVD (for second room/car use)

 

[Colin Jacobson]

I've seen this asked, but I don't understand why.

If you have a 4K setup, why do you need the Blu-Ray? If you don't have 4K, why not just purchase the Blu-Ray. If you're 'future-proofing', there's no guarantee that 2019's release will be the best when you do around to upgrading to 4k (or 8K, etc.)

Its seems different than including a DVD (for second room/car use)

For me, I wanted the BD so I could review it along with the 4K, but I realize most people don't run their own review sites!

I think the "future-proofing" argument is best. Extremely low chance there's gonna be a 2nd 4K UHD disc release of this title.

And why can't BDs be used for "2nd rooms"?

 

[BobO'Link]

Sorry, I don't get that some people, even if lacking all knowledge of cinematography, film history, directorial intent, pictorial quality, and the beauty and moods produced by fine black and white images, would want to settle for these bastardized, pasty, inaccurate and distracting "colorized" transfers , would be so completely cool with the horrifying efforts like of outfits like Legend to debase what an audience is supposed to see. The Ray Harryhausen commentaries on several of his early b&w classics suggests that he was actually complicit in this process (saying time and time again that, had he been able to make the films in color, he'd have done so because these colorized versions are so wonderful). But I can't believe he wasn't pushed into these statements by Legend or Sony in order to get these discs remastered for Blu-ray. When one overlays crappy computerized color over black and white, the natural grey-scale grades and contrast disappear...you can't gain them back simply by dialing back the color on your display. Some people think these colorized editions look oh-so-much-better than any previous attempts at the process, but to me, they all totally suck, and I think this whole procedure should be banned. But, hey, what do I know?

I truly believe Harryhausen was sincere. Maybe it was because doing so also got remastered BW versions out there in the process. That's why I support these colorization attempts.

I'm one of those who feel Legend does the best colorization work - at least for now. I'm all for them - *not* because I want to see a colorized version of a BW movie but because to do those colorizations they first do a full remaster on the BW original. That remastered BW original is what I purchase a colorized package for - *not* the colorized version.

While I think Legend does very good work I also think those colorized movies just don't look "right." I also question many of the color choices as who knows if they're "right" or not (and you can't go by color photos of sets as colors chosen to film in BW are all about contrast/grey scale reproduction). But as long as colorizing a movie means there's also a newly remastered BW copy I'm OK with it. And if that colorized version gets one of the "I don't watch BW movies ever" crowd to watch a classic, I'm OK with it. It doesn't mean I have to watch it colorized. Once they've done that you have a doorway to get them to watch a non-colorized BW film. I've converted a few people that way.

Most people don't watch with as critical an eye towards photography as "cinephiles" tend to do. I have a brother-in-law who designs signs and can't see that a circle on a 4:3 image is now oval when his TV is set to stretch that image to WS. I know beyond a shadow of doubt that he'd not be able to tell the difference between a colorized movie and one shot in color. He's just one example among dozens of people I know that would be practically identical in their observations. To me, both are as obvious as the nose on your face.

 

[Colin Jacobson]

To be clear, are you saying that in your view there is a much greater likelihood that Ray Harryhausen was a lying sellout than that he was sincere in seeing some of his works presented in colour?

...and if so, are you basing this on the contention that your subjective view of colourisation therefore precludes Mr Harryhausen’s sincerity?

"Lying sellout" seems extreme. Sometimes people say "that's great" just to be nice.

Maybe RH loved the color versions, maybe he didn't, but if he didn't, he wouldn't be the 1st to put on a happy face when it came time to promote something...

 

[RMajidi]

"Lying sellout" seems extreme. Sometimes people say "that's great" just to be nice.

Maybe RH loved the color versions, maybe he didn't, but if he didn't, he wouldn't be the 1st to put on a happy face when it came time to promote something...

Thanks Colin. You and Rick may both be right for all I know. But I would hope there’s other evidence before reaching such a conclusion. Because the way it reads to me is that there’s no way Ray Harryhausen could ever really have liked colourisation, therefore the only probable explanation is that he must have only gone along with it to sell product.

If there is no other evidence or indication to support this notion, then I’d just as soon take Mr Harryhausen at his word. Like so many of my filmmaking champions, he enriched my life in ways that I can never repay, and I’d prefer not to have his legacy asterisked with speculative doubt.

In any case, apologies for the digression, as OP Brad specifically asked for this to not become a debate about the colourisation process.

 

[RJGT]

With further apologies for the digression, I've looked for an opportunity to say this for some time. My wife prefers colorized versions (specifically It's a Wonderful Life and Alistair Sims' A Christmas Carol) and while I'm happy to watch those with her I do love the B&W restorations and the detail they now allow us to see. But I've often wondered if the view of colorization would have been different if the "pioneers" of the process hadn't decided they didn't need Frank Capra's involvement/blessing because It's a Wonderful Life was in the public domain by then. Capra, apparently, thought colorization might give new life and new audiences for the film and was willing to work with them until they stabbed him in the back. He then became a big foe of the process. A film I wish was in color (almost to the point of wishing Paramount would colorize it) is Roman Holiday. Here again, the filmmaker, William Wyler apparently wanted to make it in color but the studio gave him a choice -- location filming or color. He wisely chose location, but now that it is possible to add color, it would be nice to see what it might have been like. I think of this whenever I see the lush colors of Three Coins in the Fountain and [adding another foe of colorization to the story] the opening of Woody Allen's Midnight in Paris and its beautiful color scenes of the city.

 

[TJPC]

I always wish someone would colourize the early sound Technicolor musicals that we only have black and white prints of. We could see “On With The Show” etc. as they were originally intended.

 

[Matt Hough]

I always wish someone would colourize the early sound Technicolor musicals that we only have black and white prints of. We could see “On With The Show” etc. as they were originally intended.

Or "The Wedding of the Painted Doll" sequence in The Broadway Melody. Seems like a no-brainer. But would they colorize it only with two-color colorization?

 

[Colin Jacobson]

But I've often wondered if the view of colorization would have been different if the "pioneers" of the process hadn't decided they didn't need Frank Capra's involvement/blessing because It's a Wonderful Life was in the public domain by then. Capra, apparently, thought colorization might give new life and new audiences for the film and was willing to work with them until they stabbed him in the back. He then became a big foe of the process.

Does this mean you think a colorized "IAWL" would've had more accurate colors if Capra had been involved?

Other than PR reasons, I don't see what difference his involvement/approval would've made, especially since he died in 1991 and colorization was awful in his lifetime.

As bad as I think it looks now, it was way worse in the 80s!

 

[TJPC]

Or "The Wedding of the Painted Doll" sequence in The Broadway Melody. Seems like a no-brainer. But would they colorize it only with two-color colorization?

Take a look at the early sequences of “The Aviator”, which replicated the early Technicolor look.

 

[rsmithjr]

I personally watch IAWL in a theatre in 35mm with carbon arc projection. The theatre is the Stanford in Palo Alto. So I do side with those who say we should only watch things in theatres. Generally, I like seeing things as close to what I originally saw theatrically or would have seen had I been there. LOA only in 70mm for example.

I do find the colorization processes interesting and they certainly have improved. I do expect the technology to continue to improve.

I take a libertarian position on these issues, watch it the way you want to. The essence of IAWL is probably not to be found in any of its technical aspects.

 

[RMajidi]

The essence of IAWL is probably not to be found in any of its technical aspects

A big, appreciative ‘Hee-Haw’ to that!

 

[Matt Hough]

Take a look at the early sequences of “The Aviator”, which replicated the early Technicolor look.

Oh, I know anything is possible. I was just wondering if they chose to colorize it, would they do a full color rendering or one that would get as close as possible to what was possible back in the day?

 

[Dick]

People are "supposed to see" a film in a theater with a large audience. Is this the way you watch all your movies?

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Whenever possible, yes. Classics in theaters are damned hard to find anymore.