POLICE Remasters. Whaaaaaaaaaaat?! (1 Viewer)

[Darren Pillans]

I understand The Police back catalogue will be remastered for SACD and that's cool.

But "Sting.com" says there'll be new remasters for standard CD also.

They were already remastered in 1995 by the same guy that did the Sting Remasters (David Collins).

What bugs me is that I just recently forked out the cash replacing my entire Police collection to now hear it's being Re-Remastered!

Can anyone tell me what the deal is here?

PLEASE?

Thanks in advance.

 

[Justin Lane]

Can anyone tell me what the deal is here?

Since they are going through the trouble of making new DSD masters for the SACDs, I assume they are just going to convert those DSD masters to PCM for the standard redbook release. Unfortunately the SACD will just be single layer on this one. Hybrids would have been nice, but right now I think they are having major capacity issues, especially with the rumor that a flagship title like Pink Floyd DSOTM is going to be delayed for three weeks missing its 30th Anniversary release date.

J

 

[John Tillman]

The SACD's are up for preorder on Elusive for a 03/04/03 release.

Edit: Both the DSOTM & the Police SACD's are lsited.

 

[Lee Scoggins]

the rumor that a flagship title like Pink Floyd DSOTM is going to be delayed for three weeks missing its 30th Anniversary release date.

Wow, that's the first I have heard of this. Do you have a source Justin?

 

[Michael_T]

especially with the rumor that a flagship title like Pink Floyd DSOTM is going to be delayed for three weeks missing its 30th Anniversary release date.

I wonder if this rumor happens to have surfaced because they are going to release a vinyl edition which is being released 3 weeks later than the stated release of the SACD.

I hazard to guess the SACD will appear on time - it is the vinyl that is coming out on 3/25/03.

But I could be wrong as www.acousticsounds.com does have the release date on both the SACD and LP as 3/25/03.

I guess we will know when either official announcements are made, or March 3rd comes and goes without the SACD on the shelves.

 

[Justin Lane]

Wow, that's the first I have heard of this. Do you have a source Justin?

Lee I heard about the possible delay from this thread:

http://www.hometheaterforum.com/htfo...hreadid=121724

The link was posted by robert to this site which mentions the possible delay.

http://www.brain-damage.co.uk/general/news.html

I am not sure if it is accurate or not, but as posted Acoustic Sounds now reflects this delay on their pre-order page as well.

J

 

[Lee Scoggins]

Justin,

Thank you for the information. Maybe we get something official soon.

 

[KeithH]

It is disappointing that we are going to see separate Police remastered CDs and SACDs. However, assuming that the CDs are prepared from the DSD masters, they should be better than the current Police CDs available. If that is the case, then I would be happy to see remastered CDs instead of just single-layer SACDs. It could be worse.

 

[Jagan Seshadri]

I have the "Message in a Box" box set, and I didn't think I was missing all that much fidelity in the first place since those recordings were very clean anyway.

What would I be gaining by getting remasters? I know nobody can really answer this until the remasters are released, but are the CDs (and specifially, the box set CDs) known to have problems?

-JNS

 

[Jeff Ulmer]

However, assuming that the CDs are prepared from the DSD masters, they should be better than the current Police CDs available.

Not necessarily. Just because it is a newer remaster doesn't mean it will be any better. I all depends on who is doing the remastering.

 

[Joel Fontenot]

but are the CDs (and specifically, the box set CDs) known to have problems?

Not really...

The Message In A Box set and the current remasters (from 1995) are the same remasters.

However, doing some A/B/C listening (original CD/Box remasters/original LP), I'm finding that at least some of the original CD's are closer to the LP's in sound than the slightly bass-shy '95 remasters. While I have all 5 Police LP's and the Box set, I only have Outlandos D'Amour and Reggatta de Blanc on original CD to compare. I never got around to getting the rest before the Boxed set came out (always finding something else to buy at the store).

The Reggatta tracks in the Message in a Box set also seems to be about 3 decibels louder than the original CD, and the Outlandos tracks in the Box set run about 4 or so decibels louder. This is mainly a difference in the time between the two original CD masterings. Reggatta has A&M's AM+ (Audio Master Plus Series) label on the CD. I'm finding that the AM+ must have been A&M Record's attempt at getting a bit more from CD's back in the late 80's by cranking up the volume a bit more. It wasn't maximized compression as we see it today, just increasing the volume such that most of the peaks in the recording all top out at 0db - leveling off almost all the louder beats. In the Box set, almost all beats seemed to have been topped out to 0db then backed off by -.4db, and a bit of EQing seems to have been used to take out some of the meat of the bass.

It all just sounds a bit "thinner" on the Boxed set compared to the LP's on all the other tracks. The bass guitar on Secret Journey sounds much fuller on the LP than on the Box CD.

If there is any drawback to the original CD's, it's that they were mastered at a time when all CD's had the frequencies rolled off above about 20,500Hz. The remasters have the full range up to the CD's 44.1kHz sampling rate limit of 22,050Hz. Not that that matters a whole lot since people with really good hearing can only hear to 20,000Hz anyway.

BTW, as I understand it, the MoFi Gold CD of Synchronicity is suppose to blow any other CD - original and '95 remaster - out of the water. But, I wouldn't know - I don't have it.

I'd be interested to know if the bass comes back in the new releases.

Joel

 

[KeithH]

Jeff, I realize what you are saying, but there certainly is potential for remastered CDs prepared from DSD masters to sound better than older remasters. Technology aside, it seems as though great care is being taken in preparing DSD masters (going back to the original master tapes, no over tweaking of the EQ, etc.). Hopefully this trend will continue with the new Police remasters.

 

[John Tillman]

Even though the only Police I have is the DTS 'Every Breath You Take', I'll probably start off with the hybrid of that, just to compare Redbook to SACD. If the Redbook is comparable, maybe I'll just go for the remasters.

ARGH! just make em' all hybrids damit@##$#$%

 

[Michael_T]

Even though the only Police I have is the DTS 'Every Breath You Take', I'll probably start off with the hybrid of that, just to compare Redbook to SACD. If the Redbook comparable, maybe I'll just go for the remasters.

John,
You realize that the DTS version of 'Every Breath You Take' is DTS and NOT redbook. Redbook would be 44/16 Linear PCM, whereas DTS is a lossy compression scheme.

If you mean that you intend to compare the redbook layer of the hybrid with the SACD layer - then OK - continue on. (and sorry).

 

[John Tillman]

If you mean that you intend to compare the redbook layer of the hybrid with the SACD layer - then OK - continue on.

Yea, thats what I meant . Guess I've been spoiled by hybrids and enjoy the mobility of the Redbook layer. I tend to spend a couple hours a day in my car which has a decent stereo. So when they offer new releases with a SCAD only layer, i'm starting to examine the CD version especially if it's known to be decent.

 

[Brian Perry]

...there certainly is potential for remastered CDs prepared from DSD masters to sound better than older remasters. Technology aside, it seems as though great care is being taken in preparing DSD masters (going back to the original master tapes, no over tweaking of the EQ, etc.)

I don't understand what DSD has to do with remastering an older recording for redbook CD. Many/most CD remasters already boast that they are derived from the original master tapes. How will remastering them for a superior playback technology make them better for CD?

 

[Rich Malloy]

Brian, a DSD master can be made directly from the analog tape, taking advantage of the immensely higher sampling rate. Some folks have argued that the benefits of such a DSD master should be audible on both SACDs and CDs derived from it. Others more technically knowledgeable than I might be able to shed some light here...

 

[Michael St. Clair]

At least one leading engineer (Steve Hoffman) feels that going to intermediate digital formats is not the way to get the best quality out of each format, and that each digital format should be mastered directly from the original tapes.

It would be interesting to hear what other leading engineers have to say on the matter.

 

[Jeff Ulmer]

I'm not a leading engineer, but any remasters to digital should be derived from the original analog master tapes (assuming they are available. A DSD remaster would benefit from the better converters and sample rates available, but that does not equate to a downconversion and format conversion for CD from that DSD remaster (which is technically not a remaster, since it's never been mastered to DSD before). For the CDs to be done properly, they should be a seperate remaster from the original tapes.

Stick Bob Ludwig behind the console and I'll be impressed, otherwise, it's anyone's guess.

 

[Lee Scoggins]

It would be interesting to hear what other leading engineers have to say on the matter.

Thank you Michael for soliciting my opinion on the matter.

We have worked with analog tapes which are then converted to DSD just as Rich Malloy suggests. The improvements from the higher sampling rates are noticeable. Even if you do not listen to the Super Audio layer, the redbook benefits by having a cleaner digital source, just as an upsampling ADC would provide. DSD has the advantage for very clean downconverting to 44.1 given its original design parameters as an archiving tool. Many, such as Bob Ludwig of Gateway, in fact, suggests it is the best "downconverter" he has heard.

Mastering involves many things, however. These may include to name a few (1) original and best quality tape source selection, (2) mastering chain design (here jitter is a big issue as is cable selection and editing software choice, even CDR quality), (3) replication house quality, and (4) playback system and critical listening capability.

Great mastering engineers like Steve Hoffman, Kevin Gray, Bob Ludwig, Jim Anderson, and others optimize all of the above factors.

I hope this sheds some light...