Placing Speakers on their sides

Discussion in 'Archived Threads 2001-2004' started by EricHaas, Jan 24, 2002.

  1. EricHaas

    EricHaas Supporting Actor

    Joined:
    Dec 25, 2001
    Messages:
    667
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Today I received via freight the Paradigm Titans that I am using for rears. The wife is requiring me to wall mount them, and the guy I bought them from sent me the appropriate Paradigm brackets for doing so. Problem is, wall space it limited as the rear wall is mostly a sliding glass door with some blinds. The Titans are larger than I anticipated. Anyway, I have one decent option, turning them on theirs *sides* (rectangular speakers) and mounting them in the space above the curtain rod. Is there any rule that you cannot mount speakers on their sides, or upside down for that matter? I am not asking if this will be optimum acoustically, just whether it will TOTALLY screw up the acoustics.
     
  2. Marc H

    Marc H Second Unit

    Joined:
    Aug 22, 2001
    Messages:
    497
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Absolutely no problem.

    The only thing is that you will find the bass a bit louder like that.

    Might get a bit of corner loading effect depending on the distance to the ceiling.

    Place them with the tweeters to the inside.
     
  3. EricHaas

    EricHaas Supporting Actor

    Joined:
    Dec 25, 2001
    Messages:
    667
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    OK, I will probably plug the ports too. People say that Titans are a bit boomy when placed near a wall without the ports plugged. Thanks for the quick feedback!

    Any other opinions are also welcome.
     
  4. Kevin C Brown

    Kevin C Brown Producer

    Joined:
    Aug 3, 2000
    Messages:
    5,712
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Eric- If possible, you might want to try and listen to them vertically and then horizontally.

    Center channels in general are badly designed. Suffer from "lobing" and unequal freq response as you go further left and right from the center "sweet" spot.

    You might get the same effect by positioning your surrounds that way.
     
  5. EricHaas

    EricHaas Supporting Actor

    Joined:
    Dec 25, 2001
    Messages:
    667
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Kevin:
    OK, I'll give it a demo that way. Good idea. You should stop by my place and help me out since I live in Foster City. [​IMG] Just kidding.
     
  6. PatrickM

    PatrickM Screenwriter

    Joined:
    Aug 10, 2000
    Messages:
    1,138
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Eric,

    I agree with Kevin about experimenting since vertically oriented speakers have a wide horizontal dispersion and a limited vertical dispersion which means that if you place a speaker on its side you will get reflections off the roof and may have a very narrow horizontal sweet spot.

    Patrick
     
  7. EricHaas

    EricHaas Supporting Actor

    Joined:
    Dec 25, 2001
    Messages:
    667
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Yeah that makes sense. Due to spousal issues, I have to mount them this way. But I will see if the brackets permit me to angle them downward. This should help curb that wide horizantal disperson causing the sound to reflect off the ceiling. Not much I can do about the narrower sweet spot, but these are replacing a pair of tiny JBL cubes, so I can't imagine that the rear soundstage won't widen even with me having to mount them this way. Wish I had more room to work with, but we have to make due.
     
  8. joe logston

    joe logston Stunt Coordinator

    Joined:
    Oct 24, 2001
    Messages:
    130
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    that gose for your center channel speaker to stand it up and hear the differance a better sound stage all round cleaner sound try it thank you, joe
     
  9. John S Smith

    John S Smith Agent

    Joined:
    Dec 16, 2001
    Messages:
    41
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Patrick I can't get my head around this, if the driver is round why would it disperse more in one plane than the other? Surely the proximity of the ceiling to the speaker is the important factor here and Eric is addressing this problem by canting his speakers downwards. If his only choices are with the speaker hard up to the cieling, vertical or horizontal would make little difference. (Presumably the tweeter would be in approximately the same position, relative to the ceiling). I thought Marc H covered the question admirably.
     
  10. EricHaas

    EricHaas Supporting Actor

    Joined:
    Dec 25, 2001
    Messages:
    667
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Yeah, thing is I have heard this said before about center channel speakers. Some people do not like them because speakers are supposed to put out a wider dispersion off-axis. So some say the center has a narrow sweet spot because of this. That would obviously apply to any speaker placed on its side as well. But you're right, drivers are symmetrical (round). The only difference when you place it on its side is the position of the enclosure. Certainly with a square box like most subs or some satellite speakers it can't make a difference. But it shouldn't with rectangular speakers either. I'm perplexed.

    Any other input is appreciated. The speakers are going up this Saturday.
     
  11. PatrickM

    PatrickM Screenwriter

    Joined:
    Aug 10, 2000
    Messages:
    1,138
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
     
  12. EricHaas

    EricHaas Supporting Actor

    Joined:
    Dec 25, 2001
    Messages:
    667
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    OK, thanks. I will angle them down quite a bit actually, to the point where they are very nearly 45 degrees from the wall instead of 90. That should minimize the reflection. Also, these are surrounds, so I doubt I will notice what little problem remains.
     
  13. Jon_R

    Jon_R Stunt Coordinator

    Joined:
    Jan 31, 2001
    Messages:
    174
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    you could remount the tweeters to compensate for their new orientation. Might void a warranty or two, but you might be able to do it without doing any damage at all as well.

    If you were to rotate the tweeter about 90 degrees clockwise and set the speaker on its side w/ the tweeters inward that would then put the tweeter at a very similar angle to its original orientation.

    Just something to think about.

    However, I'd just try it.

    If you know the brackets have to be above the curtain rod, put them up there and give it a listen. IF it blows then work with it, otherwise you're all set.

    Good luck,

    Jon
     
  14. EricHaas

    EricHaas Supporting Actor

    Joined:
    Dec 25, 2001
    Messages:
    667
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Jon, believe it or not, you actually can't remove the grills from the Titans. I suppose what you are proposing is possible, but it would make me squeamish.
     
  15. Quentin

    Quentin Cinematographer

    Joined:
    Feb 4, 2002
    Messages:
    2,670
    Likes Received:
    101
    Trophy Points:
    4,110
    Location:
    Los Angeles
    Real Name:
    Quentin H
    What about placing mains on their sides? I'm looking at buying Axiom M22TiSe's, but the bookshelf I would place them on is not tall enough (they're 20" tall).

    There is no ceiling interference to worry about, but the speakers themselves seem vertically designed - 20" tall with two woofers. Will I be ok with them on their side?
     
  16. PatrickM

    PatrickM Screenwriter

    Joined:
    Aug 10, 2000
    Messages:
    1,138
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    You'll get the same issues with any vertically aligned array of drivers. The horizontal dispersion is greater/wider than the vertical dispersion. You'll probably end up with a very narrow sweet spot once you toe in your speakers.

    The differences can be checked out with any set of bookshelf/tower speakers and their associated center channel. Even though the bookshelf/towers have the same driver compliments as the center the horizontally aligned center channels don't neccesarily timbre match as much as you'd think. Play pink noise across the front speakers and you'll notice a tonal change.

    Patrick
     
  17. Brian Bunge

    Brian Bunge Producer

    Joined:
    Sep 11, 2000
    Messages:
    3,716
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Patrick is absolutely correct. This is what most speaker companies do: Take an MTM-style speaker, rotate it 90 degrees, call it a center channel. Absolutely the worst thing you can do. Rotating the tweeter 90 degrees will not change the fact that the tweeter is still horizontally aligned with the woofer. A "center channel" is strictly a marketing/aesthetic necessity. Most people are not physically capable of mounting a center speaker vertically. But if you can, it will make a huge difference in your soundstage.

    This has to do with the way sound waves behave. Since most speakers are taller than wide, the sound waves "wrap around" the sides of the enclosure and will actually reflect off the baffle, side and rear walls (behind the speaker) of the room. Simply taking a current speaker and widening the front baffle will affect the sound. That's why you see so many narrow, deep enclosures. You get better dispersion and less diffraction off the front baffle with a narrower enclosure. Turn it on it's side and you've totally changed the sound.

    Brian
     
  18. ChrisMM

    ChrisMM Auditioning

    Joined:
    Jan 27, 2002
    Messages:
    14
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
     
  19. joe logston

    joe logston Stunt Coordinator

    Joined:
    Oct 24, 2001
    Messages:
    130
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    i got polk cs-400i i been puting it vertical for over a yr. now thats the only way you can get good sound out of a center channel speaker is run it vertical, you got to move it around a little, set your delay 2 ms in the center channel you got to play around with it till right. thanks, joe
     

Share This Page