Pioneer VSX-D811S problems

Discussion in 'Archived Threads 2001-2004' started by ClaytonMG, Nov 2, 2002.

  1. ClaytonMG

    ClaytonMG Stunt Coordinator

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    I recently bought this reciever with Yamaha's NS-P220 5.1 Speaker package. I love it BUT! I was watching Se7en in DTS ES and I noticed that in the opening titles, the right and left rear channels began to pop when the music first explodes. It wasn't like that on the Dolby EX soundtrack but I noticed that the soundtrack isn't nearly as loud therefore the rear channels weren't as loud. Now I've noticed that things sound amplified to much and there's some pops in voices and things. And when Marylin Manson's song in House On Haunted Hill is playing, it sounds very distorted and as if it's amplified too much. Is there anything I can do to fix this? I am not sure if it's the speakers or if it's the reciever. Plus when I use the THX optimizer and do the frequency cross-over, I lose sound for the last few seconds of the test. I have the crossover set to 200 and that's as high as it goes. Plus I don't know what the LFE attenuator is. It doesn't appear to affect the sound at all unless it's in DTS and then it sounds like all it does is turn off the sub. And the sub doesn't appear to have as much power durring explossions and things like my old sub did (but this is 50 watts less). Any suggestions on setting this up would be great! Thank you!

    Clayton
     
  2. Chris Brown

    Chris Brown Stunt Coordinator

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    Why are you setting your crossover so high, are your speakers small? My beef with the crossover is that it doesn't go low enough... I know my JBL's can handle lower than 100Hz, so I leave my speakers set as large.

    Have you tried the receiver's built in test tone? (Hit the RCV button on the multi-control box at the top, and then hit the #4 button.) Does it still have the problem?
     
  3. ClaytonMG

    ClaytonMG Stunt Coordinator

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    Yes, my speakers are small. And the test tones sound normal (well, when I have the XOver on 200, i get a little bass from every speaker in my sub but that's ok). But I don't think it's picking up the lower frequencies which would be the reason that the last few seconds of the THX test there's no audio, right? I know there used to be audio because I had a 5.1 system before and there was bass for the whole test (except the beginning).

    Clayton
     
  4. Lorenzo K

    Lorenzo K Agent

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    Did you check your speaker wiring? If you are using bare wire, make sure that it does not touch the recivers chasis. This can cause a short and produce unexpected results.
     
  5. ClaytonMG

    ClaytonMG Stunt Coordinator

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    I am using the speaker wire that came with the Yamaha system. It's pretty thin. Could that be what's causing the problems?

    Clayton
     
  6. Geoff L

    Geoff L Screenwriter

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    Clayton

    Do a search for Pioneer 709S and look for the thread that Starts with ~{Pioneer 709S is throwing away bass}~.

    The Pioneers have a intresting way of setting up some of their receivers. The LFE limiter has to be set up properly in order to get things to sound correctly.

    Allot of good information their (that thread) and the problem was fixed in the end and made a massive differance!!!!

    Your crossover should not be set that high, given the limited information you have given so far.
    I am not familar with the Yammie 5.1 speaker package you listed this is why we need Yamaha's stated freq responce for your speakers.

    1)- The sub you are useing, how do you have it hooked up, speaker level or RCA cable pluged into the sub out on the reciever.

    2)- What is the frequency responce of your fronts, center, surrounds, & sub?

    3)- What DVD/CD player are you useing and how is it connected, digital tos, rca digital or analog rca left and right or both digital and analog?

    With this information it will be easier for others to give you better advice in tracking down your problem.

    I belive you may just have some things set up incorrecty....

    Quick and dirity, best guess with your limited info to this point::::

    1)- Everything set to small and each channels tone controls set to what is pleasing to you. This is not the Bass & Treble tone controls on the front of the receiver ~{but in the set up mode}~..!

    2)- Crossover 80-hz, this depending on your speakers freq response? May need to go higher (but) only if nesesssary due to your Center, mains, and surrounds freq response.

    3)- Sub set to yes, (no plus) and crossover on sub itself set to pass threw by passing the subs internal crossover and if it dose not have this feature than set the sub itselfs crossover knob to max or as high as it will go. Set the gain or volume knob on the sub itself to 10:00 to 12:00 position to start.

    4)- LEF limiter inside the receiver must be set correctly! Read in your manual how to do this.

    5)- Then all channels properly set for volume with an spl meter and receivers test tones or better yet with Avia or one of the other calibration discs. (VE or S&V).

    This is definitly NOT the perfect way to set your receiver up, but my best guess with the info you provided.

    Read your manual, re-read your manual if you have too. More than likely you have made some mistakes in setting up the system.... It can be confusing but take your time and after re-reading and trying your best, come back and ask questions.

    Lastly, do you have a Radio Shack SPL Meter and Avia, VE, or S&V calibration disc?

    Regards
    Geoff
     
  7. ClaytonMG

    ClaytonMG Stunt Coordinator

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    Okie dokie, here's the answers to the questions:

    1) I am using a regular RCA cable connecting the reciever to the sub.

    2)Fronts, center and rears are the same with the frequency response of 140 Hz-27 kHz. Sub's responce is 30 Hz-200 Hz (-10db whatever that means)

    3)DVD-Player is a Toshiba SD-3750. I've tried both Coax and Optical cords with it and it ends up with the same result.

    Hopefully this will help with solving the problem. The reason I have my XOver frequency set so high is because it says that if I am using small speakers (Which I am for all of them), it is recommended to have the crossover set at 200Hz.

    Unfortunately, I don't have any sort of setup disc except for the THX Optimizers. And I don't even know what a Radio Shack SPL Meter is. But I have tried finding Avia discs and I haven't been able to yet (then again I don't really know where to look.) But I hear they're like $80+ and I don't have that kind of ca$h to spend after I bought this new system.

    You'll have to excuse me because I am not very intelegent when it comes to the details of things (like what Hz and db mean).

    Clayton
     
  8. Geoff L

    Geoff L Screenwriter

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    Clayton

    Don't get bummed!

    Im not sure what crossover point you have to select from in your receiver but given the freq responce of you center, main, and surround you are kinda forced to go with 150-hz if avaiable and if not, to start go with the 200-hz. You may be able to go with 100-hz cheating useing the ~{tone controls in the set up mode}~.

    You have to set the LEF limiter! If you don't it will do strange things...

    Avia dosen't cost 90.00. Usually around 39.00 and the Analog Spl Meter at Radio Shack, is 35.99 + tax. Eventualy you will need these to get all you can out of your receiver. The meter is used to set volume levels for all the channels so their equal. You could go with out Avia for now but the spl meter is needed as your ears just are not very accurate in telling volume when running the test tones. Even experienced people with very defined listening ears are usually off by a few dbs.

    Their are allot of threads in the Basic area and somee that are archived for newbies to help you get started in this multi channel arena of DD DTS.

    Do some reading here at HTF and the many different threads to help you to understand what appears to be very confusing to you right now im sure.

    Read your manual carefully ~{especial the set-up section}~, and experiment with things to help get used to our new toys. Maybe someone you know localy might be able to help you figure out how to get things set up correctly with your receiver and speaker package.

    Regards
    Geoff

    PS. If you have sub selected yes and also plus your mains will be set to large and will certainly cause them to pop. They are trying to play freq below what they can handel and going to pop, this is not good!!!! If continiued they will be toast.
     
  9. ClaytonMG

    ClaytonMG Stunt Coordinator

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    First of all thanks for all the help so far.

    Here's what I got, everything is set to small (even my extra channel in the back). I can set the Xover to 150. Now, the problem is, I don't know how to get to the LFE limiter unless it's the same as the attenuator. If this is the case, i can set it from (Which I guess means turning off the LFE channel according to the manual but it doesn't do that unless the soundtrack is in dts) and there's also 0 and 10. Whatever I have it set at, it doesn't make much difference, but I believe if it's set at 10, there's less bass. However it doesn't keep the speakers from popping. For my Xover, I can have it set to 100, 150, or 200. Right now I am trying 150. I will try searching through older posts to see if this problem has occured at all with other people. I will try the Radio Shack Analog Spl Meter. But does that only work for analog signals? Thanks again!

    Clayton
     
  10. ThomasL

    ThomasL Supporting Actor

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    As far as I know, the 811S does not have the same LFE limiter feature that some of the older Pioneer models had.

    Since you mentioned you get popping, how loud are you listening to things at? (e.g. volume setting) How big is your room? Do you know the speaker sensitivity of your Yamaha speakers? What is their ohm rating? These things will help determine if the problem is that you're simply driving the amp too much and causing it to clip.

    As for losing the sound for the last few seconds of the test, do you know how low the test goes as far as frequency is? Since your sub is rated to 30Hz and in real terms, I doubt it goes that far down, if the test is going down to 20Hz then you will lose the sound on the last few seconds of the test.

    I'd recommend going out and picking up the Sound & Vision calibration disc for $15-20 at Best Buy and then pick up a Radio Shack analog sound meter for $35. You can then use the meter to balance your speakers from your listening position as well as figure out where your bass is going given different settings on the crossover frequency. But it sounds to me like you're not losing any bass, your sub simply can't reproduce the lowest frequencies which is true for a lot of subs including mine.

    And as for the Yamaha speaker wire, yeah you should probably plan on replacing it with some decent 16 gauge wire.

    cheers,


    --tom
     
  11. Geoff L

    Geoff L Screenwriter

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    Clayton

    The Spl meter is used when you play test tones so you can measure the volume of each channel as you go around the room from speaker to speaker. You use the receiver to turn a speaker up or down while in the set up mode running test tones. You would start by setting all channel levels to 0 except the sub where you might want to set it in the middel of it ability to move up and down. If it goes from -10 to 10+ set it to 0.

    Set the meter to 80db C-weighting and slow responce.
    Now turn your receivers main volume control (the big knob on front of the reciever) till you read 75db on the meter at your listen position with the left main speaker playing it's test tone. This may seem a little loud but it's only for calibrating!
    Then move the tone to the center and check the meter, dose it read 75? if not you turn up or down that channels volume to match 75db and so on till you get to the sub. Here some like to run it a little hotter. If all channels read 75db and you want a little more bass when waching movies at lower volumes people will run the sub a little hotter. 3-6db normaly, so you want the meter to read 78 to 81db. The hotter sub is a taste thing not a hard and fast rule.

    This is done AFTER you get the receiver set up correctly to start.
    Speaker sizes, cossover, speaker distances to listeing spot, tone controls for each channel, LEF pad or limiter, etc.

    I am only familar with the VSX-709S so the attenuator and limter, I have no idea if they are one in the same. The 709 dose not have this if I remember correctly.

    Again, most of what I have wrote (except for the operation of the SPL meter) is in your manual!!!!! You have to read and experiment. Getting the poping to stop I belive you can get that done with out any of the tools mentioned.

    Meaning With out Avia or Spl meter.

    Hopefully someone with an 811S can come in and get you on the right road with the poping and bass limiter attenuator thing. I doubt their the same!

    If I could have access to PDF files I would down load the damn manual and figure out your problem, but im on webtv and can't. So someone else will have to take over...

    Sorry bud
    Geoff
     
  12. ClaytonMG

    ClaytonMG Stunt Coordinator

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    The room is 13ft by 16ft. I ussually have the reciever set to -32db about. The sensitivity of the speakers is 86 db/2.83V/m. Unfortunately I don't know the ohm rating. But the sound test does go down to 20 Hz. So that takes care of why I am losing audio at the end of the test. Would that be the reason when there's an explosion in a movie there's hardly any bass? I noticed that when I saw Spider-Man last night.

    Clayton
     
  13. ClaytonMG

    ClaytonMG Stunt Coordinator

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    Alright, I also have a KLH 100 watt sub. Here's the link to that: http://www.bestbuy.com/Detail.asp?m=...at=&e=11101884 Would I be able to hook that up to this reciever be able to get lower frequencies? I used that with my old 5.1 system and it sounded pretty good. The only think I don't know how to use is the frequency settings with my new reciever (I tried using it once before but didn't get it working right so I decided just to stick to the yamaha.)
    Clayton
     
  14. Geoff L

    Geoff L Screenwriter

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    It's probley throwing away bass as my friends 709S was doing!

    This is why I asked you to do a search in this area for the 709S and look for that particular thread!

    Pioneer VSX-709S throwing away bass!

    Untill the LEF limiter was set up it was doing the same thing as far as droping bass that I new the sub could produce. Im speaking of the speakers being set to small and ~{the bass that was re-routed to the sub was not being produced}~.

    As soon as we set the LEF limiter and recalibrated everything all was well...

    Later
    Geoff
     
  15. ClaytonMG

    ClaytonMG Stunt Coordinator

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    Well I did look at the old post. And everything is set up differently on that reciever from what I can tell. And all I have is the attenuator and like I said, that doesn't make much difference for anything.

    Clayton
     
  16. ThomasL

    ThomasL Supporting Actor

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    Clayton, I'd try the KLH sub instead of the one that came with Yamaha package. I am not sure what you mean by frequency settings for the KLH sub but if you're referring to the sub's crossover then you should set that to the maximum setting (180Hz) if you're using the RCA line level input and using the Pioneer receiver's crossover/bass management which you are based on earlier posts. Also, don't forget to make sure that the volume control on the subwoofer is turned up (either sub you're trying).

    Also, things to double check in the Pioneer menu

    - all your speakers are set to 'small'
    - the subwoofer is set to 'On'
    - crossover is set to 150Hz

    good luck,


    --tom
     
  17. ClaytonMG

    ClaytonMG Stunt Coordinator

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    OK, so I have my KLH sub here. And I can't get it to sound right. There's bass at all times even when there's not supposed to be. But it's not like wires crossed, it just seems like it's turned up too loud. I have the frequency on the sub set to 180, but it doesn't have to do with the volume I know that. Should I turn down the frequency on the sub? Everything on the reciever is set right.

    Clayton
     
  18. Geoff L

    Geoff L Screenwriter

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    Clayton, try changing out your sub cable to a different one.

    Also make sure you "DO NOT" have Plus selected in the speaker sub set up. If you do have Plus & Yes seleced in the set-up by chance, it will have the front mains playing the deep bass information from all the other channels selected crossover point and (the sub will only play the .1 stuff).
    If Plus IS NOT selected and only Sub YES, all information below your selected crossover point is directed to the sub "in addition" to the .1 LEF track.
    This is what you would most likely want to keep your speakers from poping...

    Try your Bass Attenuator at 0 to start.

    Your sub problem question:

    Sounds like you may possibly have a bad sub cable. Try a different one and see what happens.
     
  19. ClaytonMG

    ClaytonMG Stunt Coordinator

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    Ok! I got the sub problem completely fixed (bad wiring). So! This leaves the popping problem. All speakers are small and it's set to small. Crossover is set to 150 and it only happens when there's something really loud or there's a sudden burst in sound.

    Clayton
     
  20. chiante

    chiante Agent

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    What is the ohm of your speakers? If they are 4 or 6, the 811s will not handle them correctly. Unfortunately the 811s only handles 8ohm speakers correctly.
     

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