Pioneer VSX-45TX vs. Denon AVR-3803

Discussion in 'Archived Threads 2001-2004' started by Sven_DP, Oct 3, 2002.

  1. Sven_DP

    Sven_DP Agent

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    After months of reading, comparing, listening, reading, hesitating, buying some other things, some more reading, ... I finally limited my choice for a receiver to the 45TX, VSX-2011 in europe, and the 3802, well the new 3803.
    Yamaha, Kenwood, Marantz, SHerwood-Newcastle were disqualified because of their non existing bass management. Shame...
    HK and Onkyo won't do it either because almost no support this side of the water. Won't consider Sony because way to expensive over here and because the most interesting new models are not available over here.
    So I stay with some questions : Is the bass management i.e. crossover settings, for both models equivalent? Would you take the Pioneer only for its MACC feature? As both models are around the same price level, are they also equivalent in terms of build quality, hifi quality, surround quality, power (Pioneer beeing heavier), features, ...?
    I know it's a little bit early for real tests and comparisons of these two models, but at least the 45TX is already available in the US, our VSX-2011 version isn't yet. Availability of the Denon 3803 in europe is one of the big questions in life.
    [​IMG]
    Any input would be much appreciated !
     
  2. IraSWeiss

    IraSWeiss Stunt Coordinator

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    I am also debating between the 45Tx and 3803. I hope to hear them both and make a decision.

    I would love to have a unit that sounded great AND...

    1. Had as many video inputs as the 3803
    2. Had two tape inputs as the 45TX (and possibly a tape monitor function)
    3. Had MCCAC like the Pioneer
    4. Had 100 MHz video bandwidth like the Denon
    5. Had function rename like the Pioneer
    6. Had USB and RS-232 like the 45TX
    7. Had video conversion like the 3808
    8. Did not scare me with possible shutdown problems

    Does such a product exist? Probably not. That's why I need to make a choice.

    Any advice would be welcome.
     
  3. Yogi

    Yogi Screenwriter

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    Except for MCCAC the Denon will out edge the Elite in every department. I would take the Denon over Elite just based on sound.
     
  4. David Judah

    David Judah Screenwriter

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    When I was auditioning receivers to use as a pre/pro, I didn't come to the conclusion that the Denon(3802)sounded better than the 45TX--quite the opposite actually.

    Of course, the 3803 isn't out yet, so I can't do a direct comparison, but I think alot of it will boil down to subjective preferences rather than a clear-cut statement like the Denon will out edge the Elite in every department.

    DJ
     
  5. Yogi

    Yogi Screenwriter

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    For the speakers that I have auditioned (Klipsch, Boston, Mirage, Vienna and Sonus Faber) with, the Denon always came out warmer and richer sounding than the Elite. The Elite always sounded thin and cold for my ears. But thats just me.
     
  6. DevinT

    DevinT Extra

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    Difficult question,
    It seems like the new 3803 has eliminated all the reasons I took back my 3802 for the 45tx. It adds-
    a new processer
    official DD EX
    possibly a better power supply
    replacement of the sub par remote
    better bass management

    Now it would be a toss up for me. I don't think one could go wrong with either choice.
     
  7. DevinT

    DevinT Extra

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    Difficult question,
    It seems like the new 3803 has eliminated all the reasons I took back my 3802 for the 45tx. It adds-
    a new processor
    official DD EX
    possibly a better power supply
    replacement of the sub par remote
    better bass management
    Now,it would be a toss up for me. I don't think one could go wrong with either choice. [​IMG]
     
  8. DavidPack

    DavidPack Auditioning

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    I have demo'ed the 45TX and thought it sounded good with the speakers I was checking out at the same time. However, I don't want to make a decision after only hearing one receiver. While I've done my homework and research, I'd like some "real" opinions on competing models that I should also take a look at.
     
  9. MikeRP

    MikeRP Supporting Actor

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    I've listened extensively lately to the HK 520, Denon 3802 and the Pioneer 45 TX (which I purchased).

    I think they are all very good. One has this feature you may like better - one has that feature.

    I can tell you the Pioneer and the MCACC are the best at setting up and compensating not only for your room but for the freq's on your particular speakers.

    Much better than the EZ-set on the HK. I've even tried to make the system sound better manually and I have failed miserably. The MCACC really works. Now a guy named Coach has owned the 3802 Sherwood Newcastle and the 45 TX, as well as something else which escapes my memory. And in his setup - and with the wife (WAF) - if I understand him right - he believes the 45TX is the best.

    Now I don't go that far.........the Denon is warmer.....HK has great 2 channel.........Pioneer's soundstage is fabulous........Well wring your hands - make a decision and be happy...........you'll have a fine receiver.

    Mike
     
  10. JackS

    JackS Supporting Actor

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    Sven- A good natured caution. Don't allow the "good looker" to have any influence on your final choice. If looks were any indication of whats underneath, the choice would be the Pioneer. I've never heard either receiver but, judging by the comments of the fans of each, either would work. Pick out a feature or two that you know absolutly you would use, and use this criteria in your final decision. This guarantees you won't miss what you don't have.
     
  11. Sven_DP

    Sven_DP Agent

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    Thx for all help and advice so far from the other side of the ocean, but there is just one thing I can't figure out : How is the bass management of the 45TX working? Which crossover settings? Individual settings per channel? None of the Pioneer websites worldwide does clarify this rather important issue. It almost seems a habit, but among the 'normal' receiver brands I think Denon (and Onkyo lately) is the only one mentioning its variable crossover possibilities. Of course marketing wise it's normal not to speak about features you don't offer... :wink:

    Btw. are there any reviews of the 45TX yet?
     
  12. MikeRP

    MikeRP Supporting Actor

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    Sven:

    the Pioneer has variable cross over setting from 50 Hz to 200 Hz. I think its 50, 80 100 120? 150 200. Plus 5 band eq for each channel.

    Mike


    there is a review of the 49 tx in one of the stereo mags. The only other reviews are form people on this and other forums. I have a great deal favoritism for mine. I've grown to like it very much.

    Mike
     
  13. Brae

    Brae Supporting Actor

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  14. Brae

    Brae Supporting Actor

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    Also, its nice to know that with a simple USB cable the receiver becomes an audio device recognized by, cough, Microsoft Windows XP for a Jukebox device. Of course, if your computer's sound card supports multi-channel audio you could output via optical and get the same thing.

    In the coming months, I will compare the multi-channel on-board audio of my PC feeding the 45TX (which I bought) to the USB-connected audio appliance Windows XP treats it as.

     
  15. Yogi

    Yogi Screenwriter

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  16. Dalton

    Dalton Screenwriter

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    On another note, I was at a local dealer today and he told me the 3803 is being delayed possibly until the first of the year[​IMG] I was counting on trying it against the 45tx. I hope he was wrong. My local Tweeter didn't know anything about it though(then again, they usually get their info from me[​IMG]).
     
  17. Sven_DP

    Sven_DP Agent

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    For those who have hands-on experience with the 45TX and 3802 (3803). How would you compare the two for home cinema (cinema) and for hi-fi (stereo)? I guess I will be using it on a 50 video/50 music basis. Which one would be the best suitable with mini's like the Gallo's, B&W VM1 or even KEF eggs, mated with a CS Ultra or comparable sub?

    Problem is that I can't find anywhere near a store which has all of the brands I would like to try out, but then again, who can?
     
  18. Brae

    Brae Supporting Actor

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    I would either would be suitable for both application, which is not really gonna help you much. Both can sound wonderful or terrible depending on your speakers, room, and tastes--or did I not already imply this previously? [​IMG]
     
  19. Alex Prosak

    Alex Prosak Supporting Actor

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    I've heard the same thing as Dalton regarding the availability of the 3803. I went to my local dealer yesterday and he said that a lot of people have come in asking about the 3803. He called up their Denon rep and the rep told him not to expect anything until next year, sometime after CES.
    However, I have to note that I have no faith whatsoever with this dealer and it wouldn't surprise me a bit to see it available by the end of the month or November. They probably just want to get rid of their existing stock of 3802's for retail or as close to that as possible.

    When B&W released their 600 series 3, they wouldn't put any on the floor until they sold their series 2 stock and they didn't want to discount them at all.[​IMG]
     
  20. IraSWeiss

    IraSWeiss Stunt Coordinator

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    If the 3803 is not going to be available until after the first of the year, why was it put up on their Web site just a few days ago?

    What's the story on the 3802 reliability problems?
     

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