Pioneer progressive players.

Discussion in 'Archived Threads 2001-2004' started by Blake Murdoch, Jan 30, 2001.

  1. Blake Murdoch

    Blake Murdoch Auditioning

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    I heard a while back that the Pioneer progressive scan players were not true progressive scan players? What's the deal? I'm interested in one because of the price and in the past I've had great success with Pioneer's product.
    Blake Murdoch
     
  2. Mike I

    Mike I Supporting Actor

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    Just the low end model 434 is not true progressive...
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  3. Dave IW

    Dave IW Auditioning

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    Blake and Mike:
    I recently bought a Hitachi HD set, and of course immediately wanted a progressive scan player. I snapped up a Pioneer Elite (not exactly sure on the model anymore, a 5 disk carousel, I think C-36) and it would not play in progressive mode on my TV. Worked fine in interlaced mode of course. Hitachi, Pioneer and the local store all had different stories as to why it wouldn't work. Hitachi blamed the Pioneer for being an "early adopter" of progressive scan and would only play 525P, which their (and most) HD sets can't support. The Pioneer manual did actually agree with this statement and so I am inclined to believe this story. Pioneer blamed Hitachi for building a set that couldn't accept standard HD. The local store blamed me for not being able to set it up correctly (and this is also a distinct possibility).
    I now play regular DVD.
    Dave
     
  4. Blake Murdoch

    Blake Murdoch Auditioning

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    I have heard loads of stories about the Pioneer PS players and don't know what to believe although you tell me that in the book the statement about it only doing 525P is accurate so I would say that would be it. For anyone's interest I asked Toshiba about a device that I heard of called the DHP-01 which converts a true HD 1080i signal onto a 4:3 HD ready set so that the picture will be true widescreen and not stretched to fit the TV. Sounds interesting.
    Blake
     
  5. Delroy

    Delroy Auditioning

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    Blake,
    http://www.hometheaterforum.com/uub/...ML/005653.html
    I hope this works, but if it don't just go directly to the above address.
    This is a link to a previous thread that should answer your questions on the Pioneer players. I have the Pioneer DV-C36 and you can see the comments I have on this player. There is also a link in the thread (Progressive vs. Progressive) to an article at that one person posted that will answer some questions.
    I hope this helps.
    Delroy
     
  6. Mike Kennedy

    Mike Kennedy Auditioning

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    Thanks Delroy,
    I followed the links and it helped me understand the issues.Yesterday, on a whim, I bought the c36 when I went in to buy a new receiver (Sony strv444ES) to go with my new Sony xbr400. Amazing, how a simple TV upgrade can escalate.
    After I bought it, I started reading all the flames about it's progressive deficiencies. I was thinking of taking it back without even trying it. However, I will bet that my old eyes also will not be able to tell the difference, but my pocketbook will. I am keeping it.
    Forums like this have many purists that really have a keen sense for slight differences. Looking for A/V receivers really pointed this out; people often say that a $1000 Yamaha (or vice versa)totally blows away a $800 Onkyo (or whatever), whereas, I couldn't tell any difference at all.
    Now, I CAN tell the difference between a great wine and a good wine; to my daughter, any pink wine is better than any red wine. Sorry for rambling; off to connect stuff.
    Mike
     
  7. Delroy

    Delroy Auditioning

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    Mike,
    That was exactly the dilemma I was faced with. It takes a courageous person to go against the grain and I commend you for that. I know I had a hard time with the issue because the purists were flaming my dvd player, but my eyes were telling me I had a great product. I decided to go with my eyes and forget what people had to say. That decision saved my $250 that I used to purchase a bunch of DVDs to view on my new player. Conclusion, I am extremely happy and who cares about the so-called expert. What I have figured out is that a lot of them are sometimes confuse on the same issues they are suppose to be experts on.
    I want to make a point because this is growing debate. The issue is that our player is not progressive scan because it doesn't employ the 3:2 pull down process. That statement is incorrect. OUR PLAYER IS PROGRESSIVE SCAN, it just doesn't utilize what the expert consider the best process to covert film to video. And it is possible to have progressive scan without the so called 3:2 pull down. Pioneer utilized another process in this player that works pretty damn good if you ask me. The lower Dv434 models are another issue and don't let people group your player in this bucket.
    Like you, sorry for rambling, but it is nice to know that someone out there understand my issue,
    Delroy
     
  8. Franklin_C

    Franklin_C Auditioning

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    Delroy,
    From what I've read you seem generally happy with your purchase of the Pioneer DV-C36. Hopefully I won't run into any compatibility issues with my Mits WS46805 TV. I am really close to making a purchase decision. I seen some info on the new Dennon DVD-2800. I heard it may not be ready for Prime Time this month as advertised.
    Franklin
     
  9. Mike Kennedy

    Mike Kennedy Auditioning

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    I finished hooking up the DV-C36 with the new receiver and the Sony 36xbr400. The interlaced picture on toy Story was really outstanding, clearly better than my ld/cd combo unit. I switched the dvd player into progressive and my anamorhic dvd stretched to 4:3 aspect ratio. I forced the TV to widescreen and the picture went back to the correct aspect ratio. The picture was great, but it was hard to tell that it was better than the interlaced mode.
    I normally set the tv to auto for widescreen mode; the dvd player is supposed to send the signal to set the correct aspect ratio; however, when the c36 is in progressive mode, it sends a signal to turn off the widescreen. I don't know if this is only a characteristic of this dvd player/ tv combo or not, but it is less than ideal. Anybody else seen this?
    Mike
     
  10. Delroy

    Delroy Auditioning

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    Mike,
    The main differences that I have noticed between progressive and interlaced are:
    1) More vivid colors - subtle on some movies, more drastic on others. Example - MI2 (if you have the dvd) there is a scene at the start of chapter 3 where the three ladies are dancing. In progressive, the red dresses are more vivid for the three supporting dancers (the color in the main lady's dress doesn't change as much). There is also a scene at in the middle of chapter 13 (I think) where Tom Cruise shoots a device that explodes and blow away two guys (that were investigating a noise they heard). After the explosion, Tom Cruise walks by the door and the camera does a close up of the villian face. You should notice more vivid colors from the reflection of the fire on his face.
    2) Smoother picture - you should also notice a smoother picture overall with less edges on the characters etc.
    You will start to notice other differences as you go along. Good DVDs will look good in interlaced or progressive. You should notice more detailed differences in some dvds that are not as good.
    Please note: If you keep the Pioneer on Auto Progressive, you may have to switch it it to progressive for DVDs that are not anomorphic. The player will default interlace for non anomorphic dvds.
    As far as the issue of your TV not automatically doing the squeeze, I have no answer. I have a 16:9 set. Maybe if you switch between Auto progressive and Progressive then it might help your situation.
     
  11. John Ford

    John Ford Guest

    I'm confused. Earlier in this thread it was stated the the Pioneer 434 was not a true progressive scan dvd player. I have just began to investigate upgrading to hdtv and progressive scan equipment. Can someone please explain what the difference is between the 434 and a "true" progressive scan player is?
    thanks
    johnf [​IMG]
     
  12. John Ford

    John Ford Guest

    Never Mind...I think I finally figured it out. thanks
    johnf [​IMG]
     
  13. Hugh_E

    Hugh_E Auditioning

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    For everyones interest, there may be a fix (by Hitachi) for Hitachi hdtv owners and compatibility with the newer progressive scan players. It is discussed on another forum thread, below:
    http://www.Hometheaterspot.com/ubb/F...ML/000012.html
    Apparently at least one person has had this 'chip' fix and reports that the Pioneer 434 now works on his set.
    Hugh
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  14. ScottL

    ScottL Agent

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    Hi All,
    Hugh's statment is correct. I am getting this chip(a capacitor) in my Hitachi 53SWX01 this coming Friday. For what it's worth I am damn impressed with the Hitachi's picture other than the screen blanking problem with a progressive input. This set rivals the Pioneer Elites. I am estimating that the picture in progressive mode coming off of my Pioneer Elite DV-37 player is about a 3-5% improvment over the Hitachi internal Flex converter(upconverts into progressive w/3:2).
    The only bad thing I have to say about it is I like the stretch mode better on the Pioneer Elite HDTV's a tad bit better for NTSC TV viewing. But you can find the Hitachi anywhere from $3000-4000 compared to the Elites $5000-5800 price point.
    I plan on posting a review of this Hitachi set after I get the chip installed.
    Later,
    Scott
     

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