Pioneer Elite DV-47A universal player announced (1 Viewer)

[Andrew Beck]

[font=http://beck.servebeer.com/ht.html]I can't see why you're so hung up about the rosewood. take these 3 scenerios



1) Product A sounds great look pretty good, certainly not ugly, cost $1200.



2) Product B sounds identical to product A, but looks nicer, cost $1400.



3) Product C looks identical to product B, but doesn't sound quite as nice, cost $1200.





Which do you buy? Most everyone I know would choose A.[/font]

 

[Terrell]

Color me stupid, but wouldn't you want your pre/pro to handle bass management? Why would you want a DVD player to do that? It's almost like saying you'd rather have your DVD process Dolby Digital.

 

[Kelly Scott Rickards]

I agree Terrel...

In fact, I believe some upcoming Recievers will offer bass mgt through their 5.1/7.1 analog ins..

In fact, I read in a recent Sound and Vision mag that the new Sherwood Newcastle reciever would be the first to incorporate bass mgt on its DVDA/SACD ins??

I would imagine other Reciever manufactrers would follow for the short term and when firewire equipped DVDA/SACD players become available, they can do bass mgt in the digital domain...

I believe the Denon 5803 has a direct digital link to the new Denon DVD player (forgot the model #) so I wouldn't be surprised if it can handle bass mgt through its multichannel analog ins too...

 

[KeithH]

Andrew, to my mind, the issue of using or not using rosewood side panels on Elite components is one of image. Traditionally, Pioneer has included rosewood sidepanels on its best Elite components, as I said. Consider my PD-65/PD-59 and DV-38A/DV-37 examples above. Look at Elite receivers. The top models have had rosewood, while the lesser models have not. The $250 Elite stereo integrated amp has no rosewood side panels. The Elite DV-C36 DVD changer has no rosewood side panels and is only $450-500. So, I have come to expect rosewood sidepanels on Pioneer's best Elite components. In some cases, I have found Elite components lacking rosewood sidepanels (i.e., the lesser expensive Elite components) to only be marginally better than their non-Elite counterparts. The DV-47A may be an excellent component, but to see no rosewood sidepanels is a sign of Pioneer being cheap to me. Then, the notion of Pioneer not offering rosewood on any of its Elite components now is just disappointing.

 

[Kevin T]

The DV-47A may be an excellent component, but to see no rosewood sidepanels is a sign of Pioneer being cheap to me

actually, pioneer might be trying to cut down on their overhead to lower prices (doubtful i know) so maybe they aren't being cheap but trying to pass the savings onto the consumer but not including the rosewood. this is a far stretch i know but food for thought. btw, i personally feel the rosewood panels are ugly and throw back to an archaic era of monophonics and 8-track players so i'm glad to see them gone.

kevin t

 

[PatrickM]

Color me stupid, but wouldn't you want your pre/pro to handel bass management?

This is true if we could actually get a digital out for DVD-A and SACD players. But since there is only analog out you rely on the DVD-A or SACD player to do the bass management of which very few do at this point.

Patrick

 

[Andrew Beck]

[font=http://beck.servebeer.com/ht.html]I'd much rather them spend the money on something that makes it sound, good... or the video performance than on rosewood side panels.[/font]

 

[KeithH]

Andrew, it remains to be seen (and heard) whether the '47A will be a first-rate component, one that holds its own with the better SACD, DVD-Audio, and progressive-scan DVD-Video players currently available. The presence or absence of rosewood sidepanels has no bearing on the sound or picture unless you believe in some sort of anti-vibration benefit, which I don't. Still, based on Pioneer's tradition with Elite components, had rosewood sidepanels been included on the '47A, I would have immediately perceived it as a top-flight Elite component. Since it lacks the rosewood sidepanels, I'm a bit skeptical. Is the '47A like the DV-38A or the DV-37? Like the PD-65 or PD-59? Like the DV-09 or DV-05? Maybe Pioneer should release a "DV-49A" universal player with rosewood sidepanels for $2000 retail. That would make sense.
It is interesting that the DV-38A, which only does DVD-Audio and has rosewood sidepanels sells for $1500 at brick-and-mortar stores, yet the '47A, which does both SACD and DVD-Audio and has no rosewood sidepanels will retail for $1200. The rosewood sidepanels obviously can't account for such a price difference. Maybe the '47A is a bit cheaper since it is a later-generation player, but it is a "universal" player, so I thought it would retail for more than $1200. In any event, I will remain skeptical about its audio performance until reviews come out and I get to hear it. By the way, I am not just skeptical because the '47A lacks rosewood sidepanels and will only retail for $1200. I am skeptical about the sound quality provided by universal players in general, relative to their more "focused" counterparts.

 

[Kevin T]

not to press the issue but i feel that the price difference you mention between the 38a and the 47a are in line with the way the formats have progressed. remember the scd-1. it retailed for $5000 when it came out. how much did the scd-777es retail for? then the scd-333es? the price point will invariably lower as newer models are released. the earlier adopters pave the way for lower priced components with equal to marginally less quality than their predecessors. that's how technology goes so to speak. i'm not overly concerned about the quality or lack thereof in the dv-47a right now. i'm definitely interested in it but as with any new piece of gear, i'll have to audition and determine if it's worth the $1200 price tag. of course, if i can't audition i'll have to base my decision on professional reviews / word of mouth from members of this and other forums. ultimately though i think there is nothing wrong with the price being where it's at.

kevin t

 

[KeithH]

Kevin, I hope you are right. As I said, maybe the '47A is cheaper than the '38A since it is a later-generation player. The '38A was Pioneer's first foray into high-resolution audio. Anyway, I am playing devil's advocate here a bit, but I liked the rosewood sidepanels and would like to have seen them on the '47A. The player just looks a bit cheap without the rosewood. That's the last I am going to about the subject.
Regarding Sony's lesser expensive SACD players, they aren't necessarily better than the more expensive models. People say the SCD-1 is a better redbook CD player than is the SCD-777ES, though SACD performance is supposed to be very close. I can't say whether the differences in performance are real or perceived. All I do know is that with the '1, you are getting a fancier looking player. The '1 also offers an extra isolator foot and balanced outputs. Still, people on Audio Asylum will say that the more expensive '1 is a better-sounding component that the '777ES. Also, the 'C333ES while very good, is not as good as the '1 or '777ES. You get the flexibility of changer, but lose a bit in the audio performance. So, with Sony's SACD players, lower price usually means a drop-off in performance. An exception is the new SCD-XA777ES, which at $3000, is said to outperform the '1. Of course, no one pays $5000 for the '1 now. It is readily available for less than $3000.
By the way, I have a Realistic 8-track tape player that has a wood all around the chassis. It's great! Believe it or not, I found it brand new and in a sealed box on eBay about a year ago for $30. It has go to back to the late '70s or early '80s.

 

[joe logston]

you can make the rosewood sides i did it to and old kenwood receiver with zebrawood, at that time i worked in a hard wood lumber yard. thank you, joe

 

[Ryan Spaight]

On the issue of bass management, the reason you don't want the receiver to do it currently is most receivers do the bass management in the digital domain, and the ADC/DACs being used are not up to DVD-A/SACD snuff. So you lose the whole point of having the hi-res audio if you have the receiver resample it to do bass management.

There are some receivers -- I think Denon and Onkyo (?) that allow analog mode bass management on their analog "direct" inputs. This would be acceptable, I think.

Or, the Outlaw box can do it in the analog domain.

But otherwise, if you've got "small" speakers, and a receiver that doesn't do analog bass management (which is to say most of them), a DVD-A or SACD player without bass management is largely useless.

This will be ultimately resolved by a future secure digital output for DVD-A/SACD, newer receivers with analog bass management, or both.

Ryan

 

[Richard Burzynski]

Score one for Rich B's Pricing Crystal Ball:
http://www.hometheaterforum.com/htfo...threadid=38995

 

[John Haghighi]

I think I am OK with no Rosewood panels. Just to let you know I went so far as to order Rosewood side panels for the VSX-37TX just so it would match the DV-38A...cost about $160. While it looks nice, it was probably a waste.

On bass management, I think doing it in the digital domain is the way to go, but we will not see a good solution until DVDA/SACD can be passed through to the receiver digitally (most likely firewire). Pioneer did have their prototype units available. I am not going to upgrade anymore until these interconnects become a reality, there's no point it's just around the corner and in two years they will all be using some type of digital interconnect. For the the 38A coupled with an Outlaw ICBM is good enough. Who cares about SACD/DVD-A, I've had it for a year have about 10 discs averaging costs about $25 a pop, I would recommend waiting it out.

I also think there will be a 48 version with Pure Cinema II and THX Ultra certification. No Rosewood though. Pricepoint will MSRP for $2000 and probably retail for $1200