Pioneer DV-434: You Get What You Pay For (1 Viewer)

[Scott Wong]

Question: What do the outputs on the rear of the Toshiba 6200 look like? I'm assuming there are two sets of component video outputs? One interlaced the other progressive? Or just one set that the unit is able to differentiate between? I have a Sony KV36FV15 it is not HD ready... but I look forward to getting an HD set hopefully in the near future.... would the 6200 (or any other true p. scan player) lock into progressive scan mode when hooked up to an HD display device? i.e., how would the unit know it's hooked up to my Sony KV36FV15 versus a Pioneer ELITE Pro-510? Is there something enabled in its menu system? or does it just "know"?? Sorry for all the questions but I'm still trying to understand this...?
Finally... who is the most reputable online dealer with the lowest price for a p. scan player???
Scott.
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No Stairway Allowed.

 

[Hal M]

Obi,
Have you compared the 6200 and the 5109 in regard to the 4:4:4 processing? How does the 5109 hold up color-wise?
Hal

 

[Mark Fontana]

Another data point on the DV-434... my local Audio King/Soundtrack got this unit in and I compared it to the Toshiba 5109 and Mitsubishi DD-6000. No contest. The DV-434 clearly does NOT do inverse telecine and its progressive output looked as bad as its interlaced output. Very disappointing.
A good test to see the difference is simply to watch the end credits from any film. With the white text slowly moving vertically over a black background, an interlaced or merely line-doubled progressive display will show obvious shimmering in the letters, especially letters with multiple close horizontal lines like E. This totally goes away with a progressive display doing inverse telecine. The text is much easier to read and it makes a huge difference.

 

[Robert George]

Have you compared the 6200 and the 5109 in regard to the 4:4:4 processing? How does the 5109 hold up color-wise?

Unfortunately, I don't have access to a 5109 for comparison. No local Toshiba dealers carry any of the progressive scan players. It would make an interesting comparison, though.
Robert

 

[David Still]

Scott,

Question: What do the outputs on the rear of the Toshiba 6200 look like? I'm assuming there are two sets of component video outputs? One interlaced the other progressive? Or just one set that the unit is able to differentiate between?

Just one component output, which is set to progressive or interlaced with a single button press on the remote. My Mits has a component input that automatically synchs appropriately - not sure what other sets do.

 

[McPaul]

Hey thanks for the review Obi... I think this confirms what a lot of us pretty much knew but were always hoping we were wrong. I've got the 333 from Pioneer however, and I'm happy with it. It works well for my needs. Have you had a chance to look at that one?
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I'm PAUL
and I AM CANADIAN!!

 

[Mike I]

If I remember correctly There is another admin who compared the 6200 to the 5109 when it first came out in June..It was in the section of the forum and I believe he is from N Y state somewhere....
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[gary s. miller]

I currently have both the 5109 and 6200 connected to my Elite HD510. I'll be disconnecting the 5109 this weekend (I'm selling it to a friend) but I've had a chance to compare and experiment with both units extensively over the past week. The Haunting (silly movie,but a great torture track disc)improves incrementally going from the internal HD510 format converter to the 5109 and onto the 6200. As Lili Taylor enters the mansion the complex floor pattern increases in increments of detail and stability. The bright red credit sequence on Rebel Without a Cause is alive with noise on the 5109. That noise virtually disappears on the 6200. I'm not the least bit qualified to offer technical explanations..I'll leave that to other members of the forum. I upgraded the player (5109 to 6200) for the aspect ratio control, but I'm amazed to discover noticeable improvements in picture quality as well.
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[Scott Wong]

Okay... can anyone offer suggestions where I might find the SD-6200 from a reputable online dealer? Anyone?
Scott.
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No Stairway Allowed.

 

[Robert Crawford]

Scott,
Try onecall.com that's where I bought my progressive scan SD-9100 player.
Robert Crawford

 

[Chris Taplin]

Will the 6200 aspect control feature address the "locked in full mode" problem related to my Pioneer RPTV? If so, then does it do it automatically like the Pioneer 434? Or will I have to physically select between anamorphic and non-anamorphic sources?
I may have something mixed up here. I am thinking this aspect control feature will address my current problem with constantly switch between FULL and ZOOM mode. Alot of discs have the movie in anamorphic, but the Special Features in non-anamorphic. Will the 6200 solve this automatically or will i still need to switch my Pioneer?
Thanks...
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Carbon Based Bipedal Lifeform
------------------------------
Yamaha DSPA1-B&W 602/CC6/601
Hsu TN1220HO Sub + Hsu 250W Amp
Toshiba 2109 DVD/Pioneer Elite CLD79 LD
Sony CDP-90ES/Pioneer SD582 RPTV
RC2000Mk2 controls it ALL!

 

[Robert George]

Chris:
The way the Toshiba 6200 addresses the aspect control issue is this....
If the material is non-enhanced and a full frame transfer, there is a setting in the setup menu that will center the 4:3 image in the 16:9 frame with black bars on the sides. This is several button presses, but not a big deal at all. This output is progressive scan.
If the material is non-enhanced letterboxed, one will have to switch the player into interlace mode to be able to access the monitor's screen modes when the monitor is of the type that locks into full mode on progressive sources (or watch it windowboxed). This is done with a single dedicated button on the remote.
There is no auto-switching between progressive and interlaced.
If you are using a Pioneer Elite x10 model, the Tosh in interlaced mode through the Pioneer's internal doubler looks very good.
Robert

 

[Scott Wong]

There is no auto-switching between progressive and interlaced.

Ummmm... does mean what I think it does? I am interested in purchasing a progressive scan DVD player. Very soon. As in Monday. Monday, August 07, 2000. More importantly, from what I've read on the forum and at Toshiba's website, I'm interested in the SD6200.
I do not have an HD-Ready set. I have a Sony KV36FV15. I'll be purchasing an HD set in the *hopefully* very near future. I want to clarify that I'll be able to use the SD6200 with my current set as a standard interlaced DVD player. I realize I won't be reaping the benefits of progressive scan and a 480p output. Is this correct? If so, what does the above quote mean?
My question (that I'm sure has been addressed a few gajillion times: How does the SD6200 know that it's hooked up to a set that is non-HD? Is it just done thru the player's menu system? If not, and the player does not auto-switch between interlaced and progressive, what mode is it always in? Is it always in progressive? Or is it always in interlaced? I'm confused.

Can someone please help me out with this? Or e-mail me so I don't waste anymore valuable space on the 'ol HTF server. heh heh... Please? Anyone?
Scott.
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No Stairway Allowed.

 

[Chris Taplin]

Obi,
Thanks for the explanation. Some last questions, can the 6200 send interlaced and progressive signals through the same component video inputs? Or do I need to use two sets of cables? And one last clarification: The 6200 will output a progressive signal for all anamorphic discs and 4:3 non-anamorphics, but not non-anamorphic letterbox. If this is correct, then are there currently any players that output progressive for all formats?
Chris
------------------
Carbon Based Bipedal Lifeform
------------------------------
Yamaha DSPA1-B&W 602/CC6/601
Hsu TN1220HO Sub + Hsu 250W Amp
Toshiba 2109 DVD/Pioneer Elite CLD79 LD
Sony CDP-90ES/Pioneer SD582 RPTV
RC2000Mk2 controls it ALL!

 

[Chris Taplin]

Scott,
Since you don't have a progressive TV, then you will only be able to use the 6200 in interlaced mode. I suspect that you will simply tell the unit during setup and it will never switch to progressive. From Obi's post, it sounds like if you have a progressive TV, you need to select the P mode from the remote.
I do not own the 5109 or the 6200, but had read some concerns about the 5109s ability to display interlaced video. Some have said that the non-progressive DVD can display interlaced better than the 5109. Have not heard the same about the 6200. [Obi?]
IMO, I would not suggest anyone buy a progressive DVD unless they plan to buy an HDTV also. This is because the benefit of these more expensive players would not be realized. The state of the art is changing so fast in this area, that by the time you buy your TV, there will be something better for less money. Again, this is my opinion. Your mileage may vary...
Chris
------------------
Carbon Based Bipedal Lifeform
------------------------------
Yamaha DSPA1-B&W 602/CC6/601
Hsu TN1220HO Sub + Hsu 250W Amp
Toshiba 2109 DVD/Pioneer Elite CLD79 LD
Sony CDP-90ES/Pioneer SD582 RPTV
RC2000Mk2 controls it ALL!

 

[Robert George]

Scott:
The term "auto-switching" refers to a feature on a player such as the Pioneer DV-434 where the player will switch between progressive and interlaced output depending on whether or not a disc is enhanced. The idea being, if a non-enhanced letterboxed disc was being played, one would want to be able to use the "zoom" mode on a widescreen TV. Pioneer widescreen TVs lock into "full" mode when a progressive signal is present, so this is a feature that would be useful on a TV such as this. Also, this is one of three settings on the Pioneer player. One can select progressive (the signal is always progressive), interlaced (the signal is always interlaced), or auto-progressive (the signal switches between the two as above).
As I said above, the Toshiba does not have auto-switching (a dubious feature, imo). One must select between progressive and interlaced. This is done with a dedicated button on the remote. Once an output is selected, it remains in that mode. In your case, you would simply put the player in interlaced mode for your current TV.
Chris:
The 6200 has a single set of component jacks. One set of cables. Switching between progressive and interlaced is done via a button on the remote. Very easy, very convenient. Once an output is selected, it remains, no matter what type of disc you are playing. If you are playing a non-enhanced letterboxed disc, it will play in progressive mode if that is what you select. The reason for the various options is so one can choose the best way to play any given disc.
Remember, the Pioneer widescreens lock into full mode with a progressive signal. If you are playing a non-enhanced disc, it will look horizontially stretched in full mode. This is why the Toshiba includes a feature to rescale the progressive output with a 4:3 frame "side letterboxed" within the 16:9 frame. Say you are watching Casablanca. This is not a 16:9 transfer because it is not a widescreen movie. Toshiba thinks you should still have the benefit of progressive scan so they added the 4:3 scaling feature. If you play a non-enhanced letterboxed transfer, you can still use progressive mode, just the same as with a fullframe transfer, but, you will see an image that has letterbox bars on all four sides. In this case, a better alternative is to switch the player to interlaced mode so you can use the "zoom" mode of the monitor.
Did I explain that okay?
Robert

 

[Chris Taplin]

Robert,
So, the 6200's aspect control feature is meant to allow viewing a 4:3 DVD in progressive mode. Nothing more, nothing less. There is no way to avoid the additional DA conversion associated with non-anamorphic letterbox DVDs. It seems that there may be some advantage for a DVD player that can take such a DVD and output a progressive signal. wouldn't this avoid an unnecessary DA conversion? What about the 3:2 pulldown?
Chris
------------------
Carbon Based Bipedal Lifeform
------------------------------
Yamaha DSPA1-B&W 602/CC6/601
Hsu TN1220HO Sub + Hsu 250W Amp
Toshiba 2109 DVD/Pioneer Elite CLD79 LD
Sony CDP-90ES/Pioneer SD582 RPTV
RC2000Mk2 controls it ALL!

 

[KeithH]

Someone posted results of a first-hand comparison of the Pioneer DV-434 to the Toshiba SD-5109 and Pioneer DV-333 on audioreview.com. Go to the following site:
http://www.audioreview.com/message/c...ForumID1&omm=0
You will see that this person found that the DV-434 did not compare to the Toshiba.

 

[Scott Wong]

Robert:
Thanks a lot for clearing all of that up for me! If I may be purchasing an HD set in the near future, I can't seem to justify spending $250 - $350 retail for a standard entry level player when some of the progressive scan players can be had online for a few dollars more... but that's just me.
I know we've discussed the Pioneer DV434 vs. Toshiba SD5109... but has anyone directly compared the SD5209 to the SD6200??? Is the 6200 a far superior player? It seems as though there some notable advantages to the 6200 that the 5109 just doesn't have... is this correct?
Scott.
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No Stairway Allowed.

 

[Robert George]

Chris:
As I said, it's no problem playing non-enhanced letterboxed discs on the 6200. The problem is with monitors like the Pioneers that lock into full mode. Toshiba's design partially addresses this issue, as far as full frame transfers are concerned. That is the aspect control feature. However, in order to play a letterboxed disc in "zoom" mode on a Pioneer widescreen, it cannot be in progressive mode. In this case, the 6200 is used just like it is a standard DVD player, albeit a very good standard DVD player, with an interlaced output.
The internal line doubler in your standard line Pioneer monitor does not do 3:2 pulldown, so yes, you will lose this performance feature when viewing non-enhanced letterboxed DVDs.
Robert