Pioneer-811 Separate Amping, 5.1-Analog Input with Video, 6-ohm Speaks, Long

Discussion in 'AV Receivers' started by Geoff L, May 30, 2003.

  1. Geoff L

    Geoff L Screenwriter

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    811 Owners:
    **********
    Wondering how much better is the sound quaility and not quanity, when running external amps. I have 3 DC-integarated Amps (all the same, a real 100-watts aside) I'd like to use, but running out of rack space big time....

    I may purchase new thinner style amps like the Para-Halos or AS-Amp Twos, this would allow for the room I need to place them. This is in a bedroom system and another rack is out of the question, there are already 2 in their.

    The 811 receiver was purchased just for all the current formates and it's ability to run external amping, not to mention the 189.00 new + 11.00 to ship price...
    We watch allot of cable in their and the "PLII"/NEO/DSP's etc, will see allot of use.

    Do you find external amping a MAJOR upgrade for Movie, Cable, etc, when using multi channel????

    Stereo use would see a small amount of air time and not of primary concern! So wondering if it's worth the expence and trouble to go seperate amping for the Multi channel uses it will see????

    Anyone running 6-ohm speaks set small or large using the 811's Own Amps, and if so any problems with shut down, over heating, etc at Sain Volumes???

    5.1 & 7.1 in:
    ************
    Is their away to feed a S-vid signal in instead of the damn RCA composite they have set up when using the Analog 5.1 In's????

    Right now it lays in it's box and I keep reading the crap manual over and over to see I can find away to use the 5.1 input and feed a S-vid signal in instead of the RCA-composite they provide.
    At this point it looks as tho Pioneer has beaten me.

    Want the receiver to do the S-vid switching and run just one S-vid cable to the TV.

    All other Digital & Analog componets hooked up will feed S-vid in, but the ~{5.1 Analog processor feed TO the Pioneers 5.1 Analog In's, provides no S-vid hook up}~, just RCA-composite!

    Do I have to live with this and if so ~{dose it up-convert the RCA Video In on the Receivers 5.1 Analog in's "to S-vid"}~ and then send it out the Receivers "S-vid Monitor Out" like the other componets????
    If there is away around the RCA-Video In on the Receivers 5.1 Analog In's, I am certainly all ears.....

    Thanx for any help and or suggestion on questions asked....

    Regards
    Geoff
     
  2. ChadLB

    ChadLB Screenwriter

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  3. Geoff L

    Geoff L Screenwriter

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    Thanks for your input on a few things,,, and looking forward to your amp upgrade review.

    Do you know the model # of his speaks???

    Are the Def T's 6-ohm???

    And was he running them LARGE??

    I take it they are 6-ohm, but you did not make that point clear.

    Regards
    Geoff
     
  4. ChadLB

    ChadLB Screenwriter

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    He has the ones with the 8" powered sub so I am sure he has speaker settings to large.
    I have to remove all my equipment to make it easier to do a A/b Comparison...plus I have to finish my review on my SVS 25-31PC plus...I had the pci
     
  5. ChadLB

    ChadLB Screenwriter

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    I have added my review of the Parasound to my website...
     
  6. Geoff L

    Geoff L Screenwriter

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    Thanks Chad for responding and of to read your review.

    Regards
    Geoff
     
  7. ChadLB

    ChadLB Screenwriter

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    Geoff,
    Like I said in my review...I beleive the amp only had 10 hours of use on it and they open up after 100 hours or so of use....so it will probably even sound better in a couple of months.
     
  8. Geoff L

    Geoff L Screenwriter

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  9. ChadLB

    ChadLB Screenwriter

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    I will have to check...been busy with soccer/preparing to move...
     
  10. SeanDM

    SeanDM Agent

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  11. Geoff L

    Geoff L Screenwriter

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    Thank Sean

    I'm not going to make use of the receivers amps except for the rears. Separate amping for all channels as just don't thik I'll be happy from the post dealing with people using the internal amps on the 811.

    All 7 speaks are 6-ohm at 89db & 88db 1w/1m and very power hungry...Need a clean 100+ watts to really sing...Though the 811 was benched buy a (home theater spot member) and tested out with all 6-channels driven, 20-20 into 8-ohms, at under factory rated distortion to 78-watts continous per channel, I doubt their any resever left for headroom. The amp section is truly sad if you've took a look inside.
    No disrespect to the Pioneer lovers!
    I also am not going to complain at the price I was able to obtain the new 811 at and all it's formate goodies~$189.00

    The 6-ohm Wharf MKIV's would eat that wattage up in no time, thats if the 811 was not to overheat & or shut down.

    I have heard many having problems driving a 6-ohm or less loads, even set to small, not to mention the other problem "some" speak of. That being the 811 sounding very thin/weak especialy doing stereo. (Yes midnight mode or loudness have been mentioned to help)

    I certainly hate to tear the bedroom system apart to install the 811, then only to find one of many things that could happen to disappoint and need to go one or all separate amping anyway. It is replacing an older Yamaha AV that sounds great but lacks all the current formates we wanted.

    So amps it will be.

    Again thanks for your take and nice speaks by the way!

    Regards
    Geoff
     
  12. Frank Carter

    Frank Carter Screenwriter

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    Hey Geoff,

    Where did you find the 811 for $189? My bro's looking for a new receiver.

    I also use a Parsound HCA-855a in my system. I've found the sound vastly quality superior to the Yamaha, Onkyo, Pioneer Elite, and Harman Kardon receiver's I've tried out in my system. The biggest differences I've noted are that subtle nuances are easier heard and the sound is much, much more dynamic. However, I don't feel it's worth it if it's mainly for TV watching. Overall the external amp made it's biggest difference in improved dynamics. DPLII/Neo/whatever tracks just aren't as demanding as stereo or DD/DTS tracks so I don't feel the difference will be dramatic.
     
  13. Geoff L

    Geoff L Screenwriter

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    Hi Frank

    Found it at Ebay naturaly. Also bought a DVDA player too. So after some emails & phone calls a deal was cut and got both very cheap.
    With shipping for both it worked out to 198.00 for the 811.
    My seller is now OUT of the 811's and the DVDA player as my brother wanted to jump on it also after he finally got to check the 811 out. Tooooo late bro! [​IMG]
    Great bedroom receiver and thats what he was looking to do also.

    Prices continue to drop on the 811's that are left and also plenty of Refurbs available also. Been droping in price about 5.00-7.00 a week. I bought just short of (3 weeks ago).
    At that time they were runing NEW about 228.00 to 235.00 and in both colors. Refurbs were about 215.00 to 220.00 both colors, Silver and Black...
    Some were even less, saw a couple Refurbs for under 200.00 about a week ago but ~{have not checked back in over a week}~.
    So "NEW & Refurbs" may have dropped even more naturaly.

    Dynamics:
    **********
    Oh it will see plenty of DVD action in the bedroom. Just, we do watch allot of 5.1 D-cable also. About a 50/50 split I'd say.

    Woking on amps now, so another few weeks before I'll get it all up and running. I have amps now to use, but their to big and would require another rack. Two racks in their now and moma says NO NO NO to another rack, so need to find some thinner amps to set on the racks already in place..

    Won't say exactly what I'm looking into as prefer to not draw others attention to auctions and the many other for sale & trading equipment places I'm looking.

    The manual for the 811 is a piece of work. No on screen display so takes awile to understand how the receiver fuctions, it's all their, but I've certainly seen much better owner manuals describing set up and operation....
    Been awhile sence owning a Pioneer product so could be me and my affilation to the usually well written Yamaha products manuals....

    Regards
    Geoff
     
  14. Frank Carter

    Frank Carter Screenwriter

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    Manuals...Real men don't need manuals[​IMG].

    JK, I know what you mean. I've mostly owned Yamaha receivers and when I hooked up a Pioneer 811 for a friends HT, he said here's the manual for you. I said, I don't need that, I can figure it out. Right then I found out Pioneer receivers don't have the most intuitive setup menus. Eventually I had to ask my friend where he put the manual.
     
  15. Geoff L

    Geoff L Screenwriter

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    Hey Frank

    My latest DIY push pull project is still on hold, well really it never truly got past the drawing stage. Still on hold and waiting on an email. Even then, I'll be hard pressed for time to get going, will most likely have to wait till winter when I usually DIY.

    The sub was going into the bedroom anyway and being that the Carver is still doing it's thing, even less pressure/motivation to get it started, let alone finished...[​IMG]

    Questions
    **********
    So hows your latest DIY Sub contraption coming?

    Still in the doodle phase?

    If and when it comes to fruition where will it be going, main system, bedroom, etc???

    Still really curious to what you'll finally go with, (still got your prototype rendering) and most definitly curious to how it sounds!!!

    Para
    *****
    Thats three now that I know who are running Para for Amplification, their are certainly many more out their!

    Good friend Paul on an H/K 520

    Chad on the 811, ~{big difference their I bet}~
    =======>
    And you on a Yammi????
    =======>
    I considered the smallest 2-channel Halos for a moment, (very nice) but I can in know way jusifiy the money for the bedroom system,,,, not to mention on an 811!
    Oh the horror of such a thought![​IMG]

    Good hearing from you, and the real men owners manual thing for the 811, same here! [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]

    Regards
    Geoff
     
  16. SeanDM

    SeanDM Agent

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    All this talk about separates has me thinking now about an upgrade (damn!). My current set up (811 and Dahlquist) was my first HT experience and I tried to get decent quality on a pretty slim budget. I always thought I would upgrade amplification in the future. Looking into Parasound has me realizing that I may be able to see a big gain in fidelity for a pretty reasonable price.

    I may spend some time looking around for a used 855. Any thoughts on an older model, like the 806? I have possibly come across a used 806 at a decent price. I have a fairly small room and don't need a lot of power.
     
  17. HienD

    HienD Stunt Coordinator

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    I also have 4 speakers rated @6ohm. Newer revs were rated @ 4ohm. With the d711, the sound is quite weak and thin. They sounded a lot better with a midend onkyo receiver that was used to demo speakers with. This is on the assumption that the d711 uses the same amp as the d811. Sound is much better with midnight mode on. Loudness drowns out the mid range too much. When I free up some funds, gonna get me a new receiver. This time I'll make sure it has pre outs for all channels.
     
  18. ChadLB

    ChadLB Screenwriter

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  19. Frank Carter

    Frank Carter Screenwriter

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    Geoff,

    The sub you're talking about is still in the doodle phase. The current sonotubes I'm about to build are have priority. The tubes are going to be a bit larger than I originally anticipated so I'm not sure whether I'll be able to fit three subs in my system. I'm also thinking about losing an night table and replacing it with a sub(yes all of this goes in the bedroom). I'm also looking into measurement software and equipment so I can take distortion measuremts and I know the sub is doing what it's suppossed to be doing. The thing that scares me is that I've never heard of anybody(or company) doing a sub like this so I'm wondering if there is a reason behind that. If I don't have the room for it, I'll probably still build it just for fun and put it in my fiancee's system. Right now she's using an Infinity IL100s that's just ok(I used to think it was good until I was introduced to real subwoofer by SVS).

    For a receiver I'm not using a Yamaha, I was using an HTR-5280(same as RX-V800) for a long time as a pre-pro. I found a great deal on a used HK AVR520 from another member here and I was really impressed with it. The deal was so great that I decided that I could sell it for more on ebay and make some money. So I did that and got a HK AVR-325 4 days ago. This receiver amps have come the closest to matching the sound quality of my Parsound and I'm thoroughly impressed with the processing section. I never expected it to be so much better than the AVR520 it replaced. I never even knew how much of a difference a processor could make, especially in such a modestly priced receiver. My HT experience has been brought to a new and unexpected level of performance by the AVR325.
     
  20. Geoff L

    Geoff L Screenwriter

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    Good Lord Frank!

    That much woofage in a bedroom, hope it's a BIG room!!!!

    Yes, H/K's AVR's are nice sounding units. Wanted to go that way to start in our bedroom, but just did not want to spend that much on an AVR

    Well, good news for me. Looks like I may make use of my closet stored amps now. Some long discussions with moma and seems I'm making progress in getting another rack in their...[​IMG] Cheapest route to amplification for the 811 and would appear she has much better hearing when the $$$$ need to complete the system are discussed! [​IMG]

    Of course nothing comes free and her new love seat should be delivered shortly. Still much cheaper going this way and we both get what we want, I like to see moma happy... Life is always much better that way...!

    DIY Sub:
    The reason you would not see that type design is from a long R&D time, costs, and shipping weight stand point.
    Very complex to design for sure, grab 4 specialized long throw high quaility drivers, also 4 to 8 big VD PR's, and I think you see where it's going. Definitly would not be cheap!!!!!!!!!

    I think it can be done and if you nail it, it may very well have all the benifits you "thought it might". You'll need the persons help your trying to deal with now, as it's way out of my league, over my head, I am drowning in numbers stuff! [​IMG]

    Would be fun to try building it and the parts can always be re-used, right! Just your free time to spend on it and we continue to learn the more we build and thats always a good thing.!!!

    How big is your bedroom????
    ***************************
    Still can't belive both of those tubes are going in the bedroom, unbelivable..!

    Regards
    Geoff
     

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