Philips DVD-963SA: SACD, DVD, and 24/192 upsampling of CD, for $400?! (1 Viewer)

[Ben Jordan]

So... would I potentially get cleaner sound from my SACDs by setting all speakers to large in my player and in my receiver?

Would setting all the speaker distances the same help also?

 

[Craig_Kg]

Yep (to both). That's the ITU spec that SACD (and DVD-A) are mixed for.

It's been said that bass management cannot be done in the DSD domain, but I am not sure why that should be.

FFTs operating over PCM data are well developed. They are still nutting out the theory and formulae, let alone the implementation, for DSD processing. This is why DSD recordings are mixed with PCM or analog consoles.

 

[KeithH]

Craig, thanks. I am not surprised, I guess. Hopefully DSD will catch up, and soon.

 

[KeithH]

Well, it looks like it's time for a reality check with the DVD-963SA. In reading a thread on this player on Audio Asylum, Ric Schultz, who is well known for modifying components for improved performance, stated that the '963SA does not have a toroidal power supply, low-jitter clock, or six discrete analog output stages. Apparently, Philips copied information for the SACD-1000 and put it on its '963SA web page. Dealers, who couldn't know better, have begun distributing this information, just as I did here. :frowning:
Go to this link on Audio Asylum and read the post by Ric Schultz with the header "The information is WRONG!!!!!!!".
http://www.audioasylum.com/scripts/t...hirez&m=122254

 

[Craig_Kg]

Still, how does it sound?

 

[Craig_Kg]

Have any of the owners of this player formed opinions of the audio (in both SACD and CD) yet?
I've seen all the video dicussions on AVS so I know this side is impressive.

 

[Craig_Kg]

bump

 

[MaxMenon]

On my way back from work, yesterday - I was greeted by the sight of a big UPS box at the doorstep (thank goodness for double-boxing). Lugging it in took very little effort, thanks to the 9 lb weight of the unit.
The unit looks quite attractive (brushed aluminum and a large flourescent display) ... but with some minor negatives:

- The display is not dot-matrix. Cheaper players use dot-matrix displays, so I am not sure why Philips decide to go with this. Especially because CD-TEXT and SACD-TEXT look very crude on it.

- Some of the buttons are tiny and indented deep within the panel making it slightly cumbersome to use

- It has a IEC socket but has no ground pin. The supplied power cord is cheap.

I had a Toshiba SD-9200 and a SONY CE-775 (loaner) on hand to do a quick comparison. All players were plugged using identical XLO cables to a Steve McCormack preamp. Only stereo layer was used for the review.

I realize that it would be unfair to compare a broken-in unit with a "raw" unit. But hey, this is an informal quick review.

I began by playing two copies of my favorite redbook CD - Neck and Neck - Mark Knopfler/Chet Atkins, on the SD9200 and the 963 simultaneously. The 963 defaults to a 24/192 upsampling when a CD is first inserted (this can be changed from within setup).

From the get go the 963 had a wider and deeper soundstage compared to the SD9200.

The SD9200 excelled in detail and was a little smoother on the top. The SD9200 also bettered the 963 in attack - the plucking of Mark's guitar had a lot more information there.

The 963 did a better job of adding more air around the music. But the highs were slightly rolled off.

I did a brief comparison with the upsampling turned off. The 963 sounded noticeably subpar compared to the SD9200. Gone was the air around the music. It also seemed like the sound level dropped slightly. If you purchase the 963, you will never want to listen to CDs without upsampling them.

I switched to a 24/96 Chesky DAD (Livingston Taylor). The first track starts of with Livingston whistling the tune. On the SD9200 the whistle had a eerie quality of coming from the same room (forward sounding ?) ... while the 963 added more air to it and therefore sounded a little farther away than through the SD9200.

Next, I did a very quick review of SACD sonics by playing a James Taylor track on the SACD sampler disc. The 963 sounded lush and deep and with lots of detail. Suffice to say that the CE755 did a good job of killing the soundstage and made it sound like I was listening to a regulr CD. I did check to make sure that I was listening to the SACD layer (sorry!).

Overall, I was fairly impressed with the sonic qualities of the 963, especially given the fact that I had auditioned it right out of the box.

Having finished my brief audition, I let the 963 burn-in and put the Mark Knopfler redbook disc back on the SD9200 and settled down for the evening.

A detailed review will follow.

 

[Craig_Kg]

Awesome . It sounds like it will be a decent starter SACD player

 

[Al Roeth]

Hi,

Since it was mentioned earlier in the thread.... anyone have any thoughts comparing the Marantz DV-12S1 to the upcoming Philips DVD-963SA?

I have been giving serious thought to the Pioneer Elite 45a, just because the price-point is pretty good, and it's a universal player... with some drawbacks, but overall acceptable. But the new Philips is sounding better and better, since SACD and DVD-A aren't the primary feature I'm looking for. But I'd like to at least have one of them with a fine DVD player.

However, used prices on the Marantz DV-12S1 are coming in well under $1k if you watch carefully, and since my primary concern right now is a quality progressive DVD player with excellent audio(esp for CD)... whether it has DVD-A and SACD is a secondary consideration as I have neither of those formats in my collection today.

Obviously the Marantz, even used, is going to be at least $400 to $500 more expensive than the Philips 963, but it's build quality is excellent and I already have a Marantz setup... so that's attractive. But is it $500 better than the Philips is? I don't know...

If anyone has experience with the Marantz, and has any technical reasons why one is a better choice than the other, that would be much appreciated.

thx!
al

 

[Rich Malloy]

PCM also being done in the top of the line Sony ES SACD players?

I have a C555ES, and I don't know how the bass management is handled (DSD->PCM, or whatever), but I can tell you this: when I engaged the bass management, I heard a loss of resolution that I did not like. Though my rear and center speakers only get down to around 48Hz comfortably, running all channels full-range (that is, "multichannel direct" mode bypassing all bass management, not setting speakers to "large" in the bass management mode) resulted in superior sound quality.

Then I added an Outlaw ICBM-1, which handles bass management in the analog realm, and this finally dialed everything in perfectly (along with proper speaker positioning) and without a loss of resolution.

In other words, onboard "digital" bass management is, to my ears, bullshit.

 

[KeithH]

Rich said:

In other words, onboard "digital" bass management is, to my ears, bullshit.

Well, there's no room for misinterpretation there! I run my 'C555ES in multi-channel direct mode as well. It works very well for me.

 

[Rich Malloy]

I used profanity for emphasis, because I keep raising this point with very little response! I can't explain why I hear this loss of resolution, but this talk of DSD>PCM conversion sounds like the likely culprit. I think it's a more important issue than is generally acknowledged, and I believe most of us buy an SACD (or DVD-A) player only to discover that an Outlaw ICBM-1 is then a necessary purchase.**

**(Or, alternatively 5 full-range speakers, and I've never even seen a horizontally-aligned center speaker that can be considered full-range).

 

[Hal M]

I'm sorry, is the Philips DVD player naturally region free with PAL/NTSC conversion, or do you need a hack? How does this work?

Hal

 

[ManW_TheUncool]

It seems the current US models do PAL->NTSC conversion w/out hack, but require a hack to be region-free. It seems the hack involves the use of an RC6-capable remote control like Pronto or One-for-All and a computer in order to program the player to be region-free. I don't know the exact details. For that, you might want to check the AVSForum's DVD section.

_Man_

 

[Dave F]

I've heard that bugs or issues have turned up on this player. Can anyone here shed some light? I tried reading through that thread at AVSForum, but trying to get a clear picture from a *74* page thread is an exercise in futility.

I've heard about the angle icon staying on screen - are there any other bugs after the new firmware?

Thanks,

-Dave

 

[AaronJB]

Issues:

A. The angle icon stays on-screen during multi-angle footage (for example, "Clerks: Animated Series" is all multi-angle. This is not a massive box, but still a noticable one in the upper corner. Some have reported hearing from Philips that this is a design issue and won't be corrected.

B. Although I haven't run into it myself, some have reported out-of-sync audio on a couple of titles. The issue that I've run into is that, on a couple of occasions the player didn't seem to load the title right. I get video, but no audio. This has happened only 4-5 times out of many hours of play during my first month with the player. After reloading the DVD, everything is fine.

C. This one's just personal - I don't care for the menus that much - they could be a bit more easy to navigate.

 

[Dennis Nicholls]

A post on AVS says that any DVD lip-sync problems may be "worked around" by turning off audio upsampling when watching DVD videos. I haven't had a chance to try this myself - my player arrives tomorrow....

 

[MaxMenon]

Can someone pull the system menu up on the screen (with no disc) ... and tell me if the icons on the toolbar has ghosting ? This should be tested on a component progressive output.

Thanks.

 

[John*K]

Any new reviews?