Philips 60PP9202 Review

Discussion in 'Displays' started by John S, Dec 21, 2003.

  1. John S

    John S Producer

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    60" 4:3 HD RPTV
    Price Paid: $1248 at www.electronicsalley


    SUMMARY:
    I'm exceedingly pleased with the product.
    I've been checking all the NFL games out in HD and movies, lots and lots of movies. Philips HDTV's are bargains for what you get, and if you get a darn good price on a Philips, it becomes a screaming extreme bargain. Video performance is jaw dropping on this set.

    A friend brought the Full Screen 4:3 version DVD of the Hulk over last night, whoa, almost a new level of performance, and the screen seemed Movie theater big on the monster 4:3 format set letting the TV do the progress scanning from a cheap non-progressive scan DVD player, for a mind blowing experience. Surprisingly good flick too. :)

    Who should buy this HDTV: Budget minded consumers that are not video tweakers, and just want a great picture with only a minimal tweaking of the picture controls needed.

    Those who should not buy this HDTV: I would think the truest videophiles would be disapointed in the fact the picture controls are limited, especially compared to other HDTV models.

    STRENGTHS: (Pros)
    About the largest 4:3 format screen size possible in any type of HDTV except front projection. Amazing picture quality on DVD, it's own NTSC tuner (non HD), SVIDEO sources, and full 1080i HDTV. Easy to use menus with simple to use picture controls. 56" Full Res 1080i HDTV 16:9 widescreen format. Good progressive scan performance from cheap non-progressive scan DVD players. Slim foot print for such a large HDTV RPTV. Low total to my door price as the stated purchase price included delivery.

    WEAKNESSES: (Cons)
    Only one true Component HDTV input, Limited picture controls in user menus, Only one user save-able picture controls set shared by all sources, No PIP when viewing HDTV, only limited PIP when viewing DVD on the component video DVD inputs, no 720p support at all.
     
  2. DonDavis

    DonDavis Auditioning

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    John S knows this already but I thought I would add my comments too.

    I have the same set and am very pleased as well. But I'll add that its like having 2 TVs. 1 during the daytime and a totally different one at night. I have a lot of glare that I have to deal with that really takes away from the picture. That can be fixed and is not the TV's fault. Just has to be considered when shopping around. Nighttime viewing is great and have no complaints at all.

    On Saturday and Sunday nights, there were football games in HD on ESPN. I don't have an HD tuner and could not figure out how to display the screen in wide mode. The broadcast looked tall and thin. I tried poking around the menus for quite some time and eventually gave up. Anyone have any tips?
     
  3. John S

    John S Producer

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    If you don't have an HD tuner, I don't think you can...

    You get a glare problem???


    Dang one entire wall of my living roon is windows from floor to cieling, and I have nto had any issues.

    There was one reading light that caused some though, I just put a different lamp in that location.
     
  4. DonDavis

    DonDavis Auditioning

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    Sorry, I should've been more clear. There's a window behind the viewing area and it currently has wood blinds. This is the source of the glare I mentioned. I just need to address that 1 window. The other 2 windows and the sliding glass door are non-issues.
     
  5. John S

    John S Producer

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    Ahh behind the viewing area... I can see how that could be an issue, as the reading light was also behind the viewig area.

    I have had some tell me to remove the protective screen completely?? Any thoughts on this from you?
     
  6. DonDavis

    DonDavis Auditioning

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    John,
    I initially had that thought but decided to leave it on. I have a 4 yr old and I'm just waiting for him to unload something right smack into the screen.[​IMG] I know I'll have a cow and I just need to remember, he's only 4 and being a normal boy. So far he's been really good about not touching the screen. He couldn't keep his hands off our previous TV.

    What kinds of shows to you get on your HD tuner? I'm guessing just NBC, ABC, CBS, PBS and a few independants. Is it just the big network stuff or do other folks such as ESPN or Discovery go OTA? Do any "cable" networks send a signal OTA?
     
  7. John S

    John S Producer

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    Yes, just the Football Games, and network fodder series programs. PBS is doing an excellent job on their HD here in Denver though. Real HD, as you can really tell when the cameras and production is up to snuff or not.

    I guess when NFL season comes to a close, I will be going with somehting like Comcast HD.

    But the games are most excellent, they seem to be try'n to improve their HD broadcasts week to week on the games at least. I had DD 5.1 on nearly all the games last weekend.

    ABC, NBC, FOX, CBS, PBS, and the WB in HD from my powered amplified indoor antenna. Not bad, not great....
     
  8. John S

    John S Producer

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    I did want to correct one mistake I made in the reveiw.

    It does indeed seem to save the personal settings at least on the Component Video 480i input (allowing the set to progressive scan) and the Component Video HDTV 480p / 1080i input.


    Sorry for the mistake, I could of sworn it did not do it, but in more experience with the set and calibration, it does indeed do this.
     
  9. Steve...O

    Steve...O Producer

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    I have recently come across this set at Sam's Club for about $1,400. Seems like a good deal, but I have a couple of questions:

    1. There appears to be a 16x9 anamorphic mode via one (and only one) of the inputs. For those of you with this set, how impressed are you with the presentation of 16x9 encoded material.

    2. There is another set of component inputs, but it's not 16x9 enhanced. Assuming that I use the 16x9 mode for a HD input, how big of a sacrifice in quality am I making running the DVD player through the secondary set of component inputs? I currently have a Toshiba progressive scan player (SD-4900) but I don't have a digital TV so I've never been able to experience the added benefits of progressive scan.

    The only reason I'm even looking at this set is that being a huge classic film buff, most of my DVDs are of pre-1954 films with some classic TV on DVD thrown in.

    Thanks!

    Steve
     
  10. DonDavis

    DonDavis Auditioning

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    Hey Steve,

    I think you will like this TV. As you mention, you have many older movies that are in 4:3 ratio and they will be huge on this set. I watch newer DVDs in the correct aspect and even my wife loves it (she was never big on home theater stuff but now is). Our set is primarily used for broadcast shows throughout the week and then a few movies on the weekend.

    When a person removes the propaganda that they are fed by sales guys, 4:3 aspect TVs are more logical than widescreen for almost all homes.

    To question 1,
    I use 1 component input for my DVD. This set displays 16:9 in the same size as a 57" widescreen. It looks great!

    #2
    I think the other you mention is the component HD input. I don't have HD so it's not currently used.

    I would buy my set again and really enjoy it.
     
  11. Steve...O

    Steve...O Producer

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    Thanks Don! I really appreciate your input.

    Steve
     
  12. StephenHa

    StephenHa Second Unit

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    double check to be sure the set is A; new and B; supposed to be at Sam's club I know Sam's had some plasmas, and when Philips found out they sent a cease and desist order (seems they were not bought legitimatly) some of that stuff is refurbished, or has no warranty better to be safe than sorry (I know on regular line stuff we had the same price as sam's)
     
  13. Steve...O

    Steve...O Producer

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    Another question about this set:

    Some recent threads about other Phillips products indicate that when a progressive scan player is hooked up to the wideband component inputs that 4x3 material won't display properly.

    Is that a problem with this TV? Even though it is a 4x3 set, does the 16x9 mode override 4x3 material? I know there's a second component input, but supposedly it is not wideband so it can't take advantage of a progressive picture.

    Thanks for any help.

    Steve
     
  14. John S

    John S Producer

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    Wow, my thread is still around....

    I have not been on to much, been spending a lot of time at my second wilderness location down in NM....

    Steve...O

    On Widescreen material, the set is MUCH better when fed 480i via Component video letting the TV do the progressive scan than when fed 480p. The native widescreen mode is only available for 1080i sources, when fed 480p, the set locks full, great for non-widescreen material, but it just doesn't do any good for anamorphic squeeze on anamorphic widescreen DVD's.

    I ordered yesterday, one of the new Zenith DVB-318 DVD players, that should allow me to set the TV to native widescreen for widescreen movies, I think on this particular set the difference on widescreen material should be dramatic. The player was $160 to my door, see thread in Audio / Video Sources on these forums for more details.

    I have a very large Laserdisc collection, this mammoth 4:3 set is probably the best / largest HDTV out there period for this application. I hate zoom modes for LD performance on real widescreen sets myself.

    The HDTV native widescreen at 1080i is truly awesome on PQ in that application. I chose it's HDTV performance over many many many other sets.

    I bought mine at ElectronicsAlley for $1248 to my door. So far it has proven to be one of my best HT scores yet.

    I'll just add one more tid bit, on cheap 480i DVD players with component video output, I'd also rank it's performance in that area as one of the best available out there really. Quite remarkable. The TV has one other feature I real really like and use it all the time. They call this feature Eye Fidelity it basically allows you to take 480i sources and not just view them in 480p, but 960i, in other words it is 480p presented interlaced. very cool especially on laserdiscs and 480i DVD.
     
  15. Steve...O

    Steve...O Producer

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    Thank you very much John.

    If I understand you correctly, hooking up a progressive scan DVD player to this TV is pretty much useless for 16x9 enchanced movies because the TV can only take advantage of the improved resolution (widescreen mode) if it is fed a 1081i signal which as you said not very many DVD players have.

    Please correct me if I'm wrong on this. I looked at the set's manual and reading it makes it sound like a progressive scan player hooked up to the wideband component inputs will allow you to watch a 16x9 enhanced movie in the set's widescreen mode. Obviously manuals aren't always the clearest on this topic so I may have misinterpreted what I read.

    Thanks again,

    Steve
     
  16. John S

    John S Producer

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    You know what, I thought it would too, so I bought a DCDi player and tried it. But it does not, the native widescreen mode is only available for 1080i. When fed 480p the set locks full 4:3, it is actually still pretty good, you just of course lose all that black bar resolution.

    I ended up going back to my 480i player allowing the TV to do the Progressive Scan, which is so impressive, a movie shot in HD like "Once Upon A Time In Mexico" would really be hard pressed for any improvement at all with the 1080i DVD setup.

    Philips while not so popular here, sure seems to have put out a winner with this set. It has no inheirent issues, not buggy in anyway whatsoever. And really does present a glorious picture quality.

    It's two biggest drawbacks.. No 720p support, and no DVI..... That is two pretty big drawbacks for most though. Make sure you have a decent enough AVR to component video switch your HD sources, only one HD Component input ya know. The second component input is for 480i Component Video only, the TV does provide a good quality Progressive Scan when that input is used though.
     
  17. Steve...O

    Steve...O Producer

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    Thanks for all of your input John (and everyone else who chimed in). I've pretty much decided to go with this set. The LCD/DLP sets are still too darned expensive and for under $1,500 it's hard to go wrong with this.

    Steve
     
  18. John S

    John S Producer

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    Well cool!!!

    I do think you will be very happy with the set.
    Come back and give your impressions once you get it.

    I looked at a ton of HDTV's when I was buying. When I set out on my quest, I had not even considered a Philips, but I got to view this set along side quite a few others at three different retailers and it just sort of won me over on picture quality and even overall build quality. Only one of the stores had DVD displayed on it though, the other two had their typical HD feed stuff running on it.

    Beware... One dang problem, I have is that it being a 4:3 set, I have a tendency to not shy away from Pan and Scan material, as it is just the most gigantic experience possible on the set. And gosh for the first time ever, I found myself wanting to use one of the zoom modes on a 235:1 (or whatever the widest widescreen is) presentation of "The last Samuri" last night. Zoomed amazingly well to 178:1... But I resisted, and whatched in OAR as it should be. lol My new player should solve any such urges in the future.

    I have no doubt that your current DVD player if even an el cheapo one, as long as it has Component Out, will absolutely blow you away on this set.
     
  19. Steve...O

    Steve...O Producer

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    I finally got this set several weeks ago and for the most part I'm pleased.

    DVD images are outstanding. I tried both the HD input (which allows the player to progressive scan) and the regular CVI input (which the TV does the progressive scanning) and decided I liked the former more. The TV's scanner didn't handle fast action and jaggies as well as the player's. Watching the new Hitchcock set on this has been a treat.

    I am less enthusiastic about the cable TV picture. Unfortunately my digital cable box doesn't even have an S-Video output so I'm stuck (for the time being) with just a composite out. I'd always heard how bad SD images looked when blown up; now I'm finding out first hand. I am investigating my options to upgrade to a HD digital cable box. However I want to make sure that the channels that are non HD will look improved as well. I don't want to increase my bill by $20 month to get a handful of HD channels while the rest look no better.

    One question: while watching B&W movies on DVD I occasionally see quick green flashes on the screen from time to time usually when I turn my head to see action on another part of the screen. If I rewind the scene and watch it again; no green flashes? Any idea what could be causing this? Is it a by product of the protective screen?

    Speaking of which, any idea how to get a protective screen off a Phillips? I don't see any screws, etc. holding them on and I don't want to risk damaging the casing by prying it off.

    Steve
     
  20. John S

    John S Producer

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    Steve O... I have to admit, the Philips has the worst 3 line Comb Filter imaginable, composite sources really don't look good on it. Svideo sources usually look great though, I would think COX could at least exchange for one that has that.

    Hmm I have not noticed any green flashes, I watch a ton of older black and white DVD on it.


    I have not removed my protective screen yet, but, I'll bet it improves the reflection greatly over the glare generating supposedly anti-glare screen it comes with.

    You take the top off, and slide it out, is how it is removed.


    Post back on the green flash issue, I have actually heard of some DVD players being the cause of this.
     

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