What's new
  • Announcing New Ownership at Home Theater Forum. Learn More

ManW_TheUncool

His Own Fool
Premium
Senior HTF Member
Joined
Aug 18, 2001
Messages
9,786
Location
The BK
Real Name
ManW
Yes, it's 18:20.

They can call those releases 4K, and that's fine, because I believe we are getting everything on the negatives, but sheesh. What's on some of those negatives, is my question, after all those effects passes? But the scene I reference is apparently live action with no processing so that shouldn't be a factor here.

Whether the screencap from 2009 looks good or not, the point I am trying to make is, it looks better to my eyes than the 2021 cap does.

Make of that what you will. I noticed it with my bare eyes the first time I watched the 2021 BD.

Not a fan of DNR or HDR when used with the mentality of "if a little is good, a lot is better."

Everything in life is a tradeoff. Everything.

Paramount has become known for doing quite substantial processing for seemingly all their releases since at least the early days of BD... just that their processing has apparently changed over the years from the most blatant, overcooked, DNR/EE jobs to what we're getting lately w/ their 4K transfers.

In case you haven't noticed/paid attention (to the ongoing discussions and sometimes rants/outrage), Paramount apparently still do plenty of DNR/grain-removal (and whatever else like color/contrast/tonality tweaks), but has refined their process... and nowadays, actually add back (some kind of fake) grain in 4K... or so it seems anyway. And in at least some cases, this processing seems to yield rather odd results that may or may not be apparent to most, especially if one doesn't have large enough FOV (or possibly familiarity w/ proper grain) to notice them...

_Man_

PS: FWIW, I forgot I actually do have the new/remastered BD since I do have the 4-film 4K set, which I understand to include those.
 
Last edited:

Museum Pieces

Supporting Actor
Joined
Aug 20, 2020
Messages
556
Real Name
Skylar
Paramount has become known for doing quite substantial processing for seemingly all their releases since at least the early days of BD... just that their processing has apparently changed over the years from the most blatant, overcooked, DNR/EE jobs to what we're getting lately w/ their 4K transfers.

In case you haven't noticed/paid attention (to the ongoing discussions and sometimes rants/outrage), Paramount apparently still do plenty of DNR/grain-removal (and whatever else like color/contrast/tonality tweaks), but has refined their process... and nowadays, actually add back (some kind of fake) grain in 4K... or so it seems anyway. And in at least some cases, this processing seems to yield rather odd results that may or may not be apparent to most, especially if one doesn't have large enough FOV (or possibly familiarity w/ proper grain) to notice them...

_Man_

PS: FWIW, I forgot I actually do have the new/remastered BD since I do have the 4-film 4K set, which I understand to include those.
What disturbs me is how I watch a transfer for a decade and think "that's how it really is," then get a new transfer without so much makeup and think, "ick." That's disturbing. Hahaha. I wish it was as simple as "Give me what's on the negative...straight...that's all I need."

I never recall having gripes when I would watch Raiders on VHS for years (the color palette matched the way I remembered it in theaters) and then get the DVD. I didn't think, "Well, that's different...ick." It still matched. But when the overexposed Blu-ray of Raiders came out, well, ick. That was different. The colors changed. I haven't seen the 4K, and since they didn't do a BD from the 4K, I guess I never will.
 
Last edited:

dpippel

Yoyodyne Propulsion Systems
Premium
Senior HTF Member
Joined
Feb 24, 2000
Messages
11,228
Location
Sonora Norte
Real Name
Doug
I received the vaunted first movie set with its grabber......the only chance to see the extended cut.

At the 45 minute mark......disc freezes.

Disc worthless and Amazon will not let me exchange for another copy but insists I pick something else or get a refund.

Total waste of my time and money this turned out to be.
Have you tried cleaning the disc? Even if it looks clean, there have been a number of issues like this with 4K releases that a little cleaning resolved easily. Just some distilled water and a microfiber cloth should do the trick. Worth a try anyway.
 

Ronald Epstein

Founder
Owner
Moderator
Senior HTF Member
Joined
Jul 3, 1997
Messages
62,327
Real Name
Ronald Epstein
Received the Director's Edition (single 4k release) and watched it today.

It looks gorgeous. I was particularly amazed by the Atmos mix and low-end response that had my theater chairs rumbling.

The newly designed overture, opening credits and updated special effects look really terrific though you can definitely see the seams in the SFX due to the improved resolution.

I hope I can say this without people jumping all over me...

I was reminded what a tough film this is to watch. It's long and bloated. The film seems to be more about flying through endless minutes of effects than offering an exciting storyline.

Still, I recognize the importance of tis film and it still has a special place in my heart for the fact that it reintroduced Star Trek fans to their favorite characters 10 years after the original series ended.
 

Josh Steinberg

Premium
Reviewer
Senior HTF Member
Joined
Jun 10, 2003
Messages
24,084
Real Name
Josh Steinberg
I love the film, but I think the people behind the director’s edition overstate the difference between the original theatrical release and their revised version. Yes, the Director’s Edition is more polished, but it’s still inherently the same film. It’s not one of those massively different cuts with a different storyline, like the two different versions of Superman II. If you don’t like one version of this film, you’re unlikely to love the other version.
 

BobO'Link

Senior HTF Member
Joined
May 3, 2008
Messages
10,279
Location
Mid-South
Real Name
Howie
Received the Director's Edition (single 4k release) and watched it today.
...I was reminded what a tough film this is to watch. It's long and bloated. The film seems to be more about flying through endless minutes of effects than offering an exciting storyline.
And you're correct. Plus it's little more than a mashup of 3 episodes from the series. I've felt the same since I saw it during its theatrical premier and still recall how disappointed I was in the film. I like it because it's Star Trek and that it spawned several superior films. However, it's not one I watch that often because of how much it drags and the repetitive nature of the story. The Director's Edition doesn't help either of those situations as its inherently the exact same film, just longer.
 

Dick

Senior HTF Member
Joined
May 22, 1999
Messages
9,472
Real Name
Rick
Received the Director's Edition (single 4k release) and watched it today.

It looks gorgeous. I was particularly amazed by the Atmos mix and low-end response that had my theater chairs rumbling.

The newly designed overture, opening credits and updated special effects look really terrific though you can definitely see the seams in the SFX due to the improved resolution.

I hope I can say this without people jumping all over me...

I was reminded what a tough film this is to watch. It's long and bloated. The film seems to be more about flying through endless minutes of effects than offering an exciting storyline.

Still, I recognize the importance of tis film and it still has a special place in my heart for the fact that it reintroduced Star Trek fans to their favorite characters 10 years after the original series ended.

I bought a copy of this at Bullmoose two days ago, and drove a fair distance to get it (also bought the APOCALYPSE NOW set for $15. used, and it plays wonderfully). My 4K disc is defective. At numerous points during playback, it froze up. Sure, they'll exchange it, but has anyone else that you know run into this with the single disc release? I'd much rather hear that they had, and that my player wasn't somehow at fault (I don't think so).
 

dpippel

Yoyodyne Propulsion Systems
Premium
Senior HTF Member
Joined
Feb 24, 2000
Messages
11,228
Location
Sonora Norte
Real Name
Doug
I bought a copy of this at Bullmoose two days ago, and drove a fair distance to get it (also bought the APOCALYPSE NOW set for $15. used, and it plays wonderfully). My 4K disc is defective. At numerous points during playback, it froze up. Sure, they'll exchange it, but has anyone else that you know run into this with the single disc release? I'd much rather hear that they had, and that my player wasn't somehow at fault (I don't think so).
Try cleaning the disc, even if it looks clean.
 

Bryan Tuck

Screenwriter
Joined
Jan 16, 2002
Messages
1,916
Real Name
Bryan Tuck
I love the film, but I think the people behind the director’s edition overstate the difference between the original theatrical release and their revised version. Yes, the Director’s Edition is more polished, but it’s still inherently the same film. It’s not one of those massively different cuts with a different storyline, like the two different versions of Superman II. If you don’t like one version of this film, you’re unlikely to love the other version.

I find the Director's Edition to be better paced than the theatrical, despite being a few minutes longer. But yeah, in the grand scheme of things, it's not massively different in terms of the overall impact.

I'm usually not a fan of revisionist filmmaking, but sort of like Blade Runner, the original version of TMP was so heavily compromised that I'm glad this upgrade was possible (even if they may have gone a little too revisionist in spots :)).
 

Dick

Senior HTF Member
Joined
May 22, 1999
Messages
9,472
Real Name
Rick
Try cleaning the disc, even if it looks clean.

Thanks, Doug...I just tried that under a good light, and lo and behold --- I found several hairline scratches that could not be wiped off. Mind, you, this was right out of the wrapper. Has this happened in the past? The disc was secure on the hub when I opened the case, so it wasn't that. If anything, (and assuming it was not re-packaged), the disc was mishandled at the replication level, or not properly checked. In any case, it has to go back. :angry:
 

Bob_S.

Screenwriter
Joined
Mar 4, 2004
Messages
1,191
I received the vaunted first movie set with its grabber......the only chance to see the extended cut.

At the 45 minute mark......disc freezes.

Disc worthless and Amazon will not let me exchange for another copy but insists I pick something else or get a refund.

Total waste of my time and money this turned out to be.
I bought the last copy at one of my local Best Buys because I couldn't wait for the Amazon arrival date. I wanted to watch the SLV before cancelling my Amazon order. It froze on me just at the part when Decker says to Ilia " Would you have been able to (say goodbye)?". Fortunately it just had a couple finger print smudges on the edge of it. Wiped it down and it played fine.
 

B-ROLL

Senior HTF Member
Joined
May 26, 2016
Messages
4,497
Real Name
Bryan
I bought the last copy at one of my local Best Buys because I couldn't wait for the Amazon arrival date. I wanted to watch the SLV before cancelling my Amazon order. It froze on me just at the part when Decker says to Ilia " Would you have been able to (say goodbye)?". Fortunately it just had a couple finger print smudges on the edge of it. Wiped it down and it played fine.
ST-TMP-DC 4k disc seems to have a tractor-beam to attract fingerprints and smudges. Mine started exhibiting issues
When Spock comes on the Bridge for the first time.
I quickly realized I should have followed mine own advise and had cloth protection on my fingers when I pulled the disc out of the sleeve - as there was a big smudge on the edge of the disc. I used shampoo & water then dried the disc with a clean old T-shirt (wiping radially) and the disc played fine. I suspect the disc is heavily copy protected and that makes even a small amount of schmutz cause problems.

I wish Paramount had authored the discs with a "resume" feature - but they are not.

The only 4K disc I have not been able to play successfully is Pixar's Coco - despite cleaning it several times
 

Dick

Senior HTF Member
Joined
May 22, 1999
Messages
9,472
Real Name
Rick
And you're correct. Plus it's little more than a mashup of 3 episodes from the series. I've felt the same since I saw it during its theatrical premier and still recall how disappointed I was in the film. I like it because it's Star Trek and that it spawned several superior films. However, it's not one I watch that often because of how much it drags and the repetitive nature of the story. The Director's Edition doesn't help either of those situations as its inherently the exact same film, just longer.

The commentary track for this 4K talks at length about the majesty of the long flyovers and general slower pace compared to modern sci-fi films (or films of any genre). It absolutely sums up the reasons why I do admire this film. Check it out.
 

Museum Pieces

Supporting Actor
Joined
Aug 20, 2020
Messages
556
Real Name
Skylar
I get that some people think this is still the same slow turkey of a film, maybe with a coat of makeup, but I have a different take. It's easy to say "Wow it's so clear in HD." But it's more than that. The original film, when I saw it in the theater, and again on VHS, laser disc, DVD, all along, was still so grainy and shaky and sometimes blurry from all the effects passes. It just got to where that's how the film looked to me because that's how it was made and supposed to be.

This blows away anything I have ever seen of the remastered theatrical version in terms of pure clarity. I saw it streamed a while back and thought wow that's pretty great, but to see it on disc, it's like it's a whole new movie in terms of just looking at it. Everything looks like first-generation elements! Holy cow! That fly-by Enterprise scene that often takes a pounding, well, to me, it's a whole new sequence. I can't believe how sharp everything is. How much depth it has. It's beautiful to look at. I have never seen this movie look even remotely this good.

As someone who watches this more for nostalgia or sentimental reasons than for it being a great movie, I have to say, I'm blown away. Already being so familiar with every shot, and the visuals, and how the shots looked, this is something wholly breathtaking for me.

It took more than two decades but I am glad I 'm still here to see this. The clarity and dynamic range, the sound mix, the improved pace...whatever shortcomings the story has, I am thrilled to have this. There's so many interesting details to look at.

I couldn't be happier.
 

George_W_K

Senior HTF Member
Joined
Feb 13, 2003
Messages
2,029
Location
Ohio
Real Name
George
I bought the 6 movie set from Best Buy yesterday. All of the discs and the inside packaging had dried water marks on them. I can only assume it was heavy condensation that dried up. Wiped off easily though and SMP DE played all the way through without an issue.

Movie looked good. And I watched it while I was drowsy and didn't dose off at all so it kept engaged even with the long takes.
 

Bob_S.

Screenwriter
Joined
Mar 4, 2004
Messages
1,191
ST-TMP-DC 4k disc seems to have a tractor-beam to attract fingerprints and smudges. Mine started exhibiting issues
When Spock comes on the Bridge for the first time.
I quickly realized I should have followed mine own advise and had cloth protection on my fingers when I pulled the disc out of the sleeve - as there was a big smudge on the edge of the disc. I used shampoo & water then dried the disc with a clean old T-shirt (wiping radially) and the disc played fine. I suspect the disc is heavily copy protected and that makes even a small amount of schmutz cause problems.

I wish Paramount had authored the discs with a "resume" feature - but they are not.

The only 4K disc I have not been able to play successfully is Pixar's Coco - despite cleaning it several times
Whole heartedly agree with the resume issue, it's quite annoying. How difficult is it to put resume feature on it? Makes no sense to me.
 

Jeffrey D

Senior HTF Member
Joined
Oct 15, 2018
Messages
3,370
Real Name
Jeffrey D Hanawalt
No resume is super annoying, but I do think you can bookmark on Paramount discs. Unfortunately you still have to go through all the pre-menu stuff.
Yes I have noticed this with their UHD titles. For Beverly Hills Cop, you have to hit chapter skip to fast forward through all those foreign language messages to get to where you want to be. 🙁

Got the 4 film package, and Undiscovered Country in the mail this morning. Watching TMP- like what I see in picture quality.

Just realized that the “scramble his molecules” line wasn’t in the original cut of the film.
 
Last edited:

Users who are viewing this thread

Forum Sponsors

Latest Articles

Forum statistics

Threads
352,534
Messages
4,988,600
Members
143,282
Latest member
cut_the_cord
Recent bookmarks
0
Top