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Robert Crawford

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As I've written the itunes is a real disappointment on my LG 86 in 4k tv with the 50th anniversary blu-ray looking noticeably better. I wonder if this 4k hard disc will look better than the itunes streaming or will they look exactly the same? It really is a matter of color, shading and sound.
What's disappointing about the iTunes 4K stream?
 

roxy1927

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I've seen the film every which way from its first run engagement at the Criterion in Times Square in '65(I was so young I didn't even know what My Fair Lady was. Really.) to the drive-in to broadcast TV to the 90s restoration. And multiple times in-between in revivals.

The itunes version has dulled colors and fabric textures are not precise. The 50th anniversary bluray in comparison has much more vivid images and textures so true to life you can practically touch them. The closest I've seen to an original 70mm print. The film comes to life where the itunes has a veil placed over it. I have also a very good two channel stereo system and the sound of the bluray is appreciably better with increased transparency, impact and holographic imaging.

I'm hoping it's just a matter of streaming. I'm not really a film or sound streamer. I need to have hard copies.
 
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Robert Harris

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You do understand that most people don't have the luxury to having a projection system for various reasons? At times, compromises are necessary even if it's not optimal conditions. You say watching on 55" panel doesn't serve purposes much better than a BD. I disagree, as I find watching 4K material on my 55" OLED is a wonderful movie watching experience and I can tell the difference between a 4K disc and a BD.
Robert - I’m not referencing what people should have or can afford. I’m making the point that releasing certain older films with their imagery adjusted to fit the needs of marketing for physical media and streaming, can do damage, and render an experience - at any size - a potentially less than perfect experience when viewed on equipment not properly designed for the purpose.

The fact that you can see the difference between a high quality 2k image, as compared to 4k on a 55“ panel at a nominal viewing distance, points to the fact that your eyes and understanding are far better than the average fan.

The compromise here is unnecessarily adapting the image as not intended. That noted, most people will probably think it fine.
 

Robert Harris

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I've seen the film every which way from its first run engagement at the Criterion in Times Square in '65(I was so young I didn't even know what My Fair Lady was. Really.) to the drive-in to broadcast TV to the 90s restoration. And multiple times in-between in revivals.

The itunes version has dulled colors and fabric textures are not precise. The 50th anniversary bluray in comparison has much more vivid images and textures so true to life you can practically touch them. The closest I've seen to an original 70mm print. The film comes to life where the itunes has a veil placed over it. I have also a very good two channel stereo system and the sound of the bluray is appreciably better with increased transparency, impact and holographic imaging.

I'm hoping it's just a matter of streaming. I'm not really a film or sound streamer. I need to have hard copies.
Do you know the speed of your data throughput? It should appear far better than what you’re seeing. The problems that I’m seeing are far more finite and specific.
 

Robert Crawford

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Robert - I’m not referencing what people should have or can afford. I’m making the point that releasing certain older films with their imagery adjusted to fit the needs of marketing for physical media and streaming, can do damage, and render an experience - at any size - a potentially less than perfect experience when viewed on equipment not properly designed for the purpose.

The fact that you can see the difference between a high quality 2k image, as compared to 4k on a 55“ panel at a nominal viewing distance, points to the fact that your eyes and understanding are far better than the average fan.

The compromise here is unnecessarily adapting the image as not intended. That noted, most people will probably think it fine.
Well, you and I just don't agree about the amount of damage being rendered today with in-home viewing of certain movies. I'm not talking about people watching stuff on their mobile devices, but, those of us viewing content on 55-65" panels. Hell, you want to talk about such damage to the movie experience then go back to the day, when movies like Ben-Hur and LOA were shown on network TV. Now, that was much worse than what I'm experiencing in my home theaters today.

I understand you don't want to compromise what the image was intended to be seen which is on a large screen, but many of us don't agree with that stringent position.
 

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While large format films can be viewed on a phone, the initial purpose was viewing on huge screens. A large format presentation viewed on a 55 inch panel in 4k will not serve purposes much better than a Blu-ray.
Not that Robert Harris needs my support for anything, but he is spot on here.

When I was a stringer for Lucasfilm's Theatre Alignment Program back in the day, I remember one of their technicians deriding DC's Uptown Theatre for its "too big" formerly-Cinerama screen, which automatically made it ineligible for THX certification. For many people, including myself, the large screen was an asset, especially for the roadshow films the theatre was designed to present. Surprisingly, the large screen worked well for many years thereafter. The only film I can remember that DIDN'T work at the Uptown before it incompetently converted to digital projection was ABSOLUTE BEGINNERS - its extensive handheld camerawork was dizzying.

When designing my home theater, I intentionally installed an oversized CinemaScope screen, which never fails to impress my guests, especially when something like the latest MY FAIR LADY or SPARTACUS Blu-Rays are projected. (Thanks, Mr. H.) The Uptown may be gone, but its spirit lives on in my mind and in my home theater.
 

Robert Harris

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Robert - let me try this another way.

I review to the highest tech standards.

If a release looks great, and properly replicates a film image in 4k projection, it’s going to look superb on your 55 OLED.

Unfortunately, it often doesn’t work the other way ‘round.

As far as HDR/DV, an image may look wonderful on your OLED, and equally highly resolved in projection, but where densities work perfectly for you, they may be problematic in projection.

I’ve found some films hinge on unwatchable. Seeing them on your OLED should, but will not necessarily fix the problem. Case in point, Unforgiven, and what appears to be that dastardly HDR knob cranked to 11.

On occasion, I’ll give separate ratings for panel and projection.
 

Robert Harris

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Not that Robert Harris needs my support for anything, but he is spot on here.

When I was a stringer for Lucasfilm's Theatre Alignment Program back in the day, I remember one of their technicians deriding DC's Uptown Theatre for its "too big" formerly-Cinerama screen, which automatically made it ineligible for THX certification. For many people, including myself, the large screen was an asset, especially for the roadshow films the theatre was designed to present. Surprisingly, the large screen worked well for many years thereafter. The only film I can remember that DIDN'T work at the Uptown before it incompetently converted to digital projection was ABSOLUTE BEGINNERS - its extensive handheld camerawork was dizzying.

When designing my home theater, I intentionally installed an oversized CinemaScope screen, which never fails to impress my guests, especially when something like the latest MY FAIR LADY or SPARTACUS Blu-Rays are projected. (Thanks, Mr. H.) The Uptown may be gone, but its spirit lives on in my mind and in my home theater.
I’m stunned. I had no idea the Uptown shut down. I loved that venue. Great physical theater, great people. It was better before they removed the strip screen, but even afterwards, going there was an event.

First the Ziegfeld...
 

Robert Crawford

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Well, I'm speaking for those of us that don't have projection systems and/or are as knowledgeable film-wise as some of you. I think many of us are going to be happy with the 4K release as I ordered mine from BB today and will compare it to the 4K stream currently on iTunes in the coming weeks.
 

Robert Harris

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Well, I'm speaking for those of us that don't have projection systems and/or are as knowledgeable film-wise as some of you. I think many of us are going to be happy with the 4K release as I ordered mine from BB today and will compare it to the 4K stream currently on iTunes in the coming weeks.
If you liked the 4k stream, you should be thrilled with a disc.

Just to be clear, there’s nothing wrong with panels. I love my OLED. Even the news looks great on it.

But to take full advantage of an extremely highly resolved 4k image, the larger the better. I’ve projected 4k discs on a 37 foot screen, and they look wonderful.

I want to make certain that my comments are not being perceived as “let them eat cake.”
 

Robert Crawford

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If you liked the 4k stream, you should be thrilled with a disc.

Just to be clear, there’s nothing wrong with panels. I love my OLED. Even the news looks great on it.

But to take full advantage of an extremely highly resolved 4k image, the larger the better. I’ve projected 4k discs on a 37 foot screen, and they look wonderful.
To be clear, I'm not arguing that fact, but again, some of us have to make compromises to enjoy such movies.
 

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While large format films can be viewed on a phone, the initial purpose was viewing on huge screens.[...]
It wouldn’t surprise me, though, to one day find that an iPhone will have the ability to serve as a portable projector. Obviously, the image will not be towards anywhere near an HTF standard, but the novelty will be large.
 

RichMurphy

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I’m stunned. I had no idea the Uptown shut down. I loved that venue. Great physical theater, great people. It was better before they removed the strip screen, but even afterwards, going there was an event.

First the Ziegfeld...
AMC closed the Uptown just before COVID shut down every theater in DC. The neighborhood is trying to save as much of the building as it can.

https://dcist.com/story/20/05/22/wi...ts-are-trying-to-make-it-a-historic-landmark/

I was surprised at how well the solid screen worked after it replaced the Cinerama strip screen, especially after technicians came back and tightened the sagging upper right corner. Unfortunately, the conversion to digital was a disaster, with irregular image edges and the masking not adjusted to compensate for the smaller image.

And an anecdote that Mr. Harris might appreciate: I saw the restored SPARTACUS at the Uptown, and after one reel change (yes, they still did changeovers there), there was no sound. After a few moments of silence, several audience members yelled out "Sound!". After a few more seconds, other audience members started yelling out "I'M Spartacus!"
 
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Robert Harris

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AMC closed the Uptown just before COVID shut down every theater in DC. The neighborhood is trying to save as much of the building as it can.

https://dcist.com/story/20/05/22/wi...ts-are-trying-to-make-it-a-historic-landmark/

I was surprised at how well the solid screen worked after it replaced the Cinerama strip screen, especially after technicians came back and tightened the sagging upper right corner. Unfortunately, the conversion to digital was a disaster, with irregular image edges and the masking not adjusted to compensate for the smaller image.

And an anecdote that Mr. Harris might appreciate: I saw the restored SPARTACUS at the Uptown, and after one reel change (yes, they still did changeovers there), there was no sound. After a few moments of silence, several audience members yelled out "Sound!". After a few more seconds, other audience members started yelling out "I'M Spartacus!"
An oddity for the Uptown. Their projection was as perfect as possible.

Re the non-strip screen, it had a major cross-illumination problem. They should have replaced the strips!
 

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