Phantom of the Opera: Ultimate Edition pre-book sheet! (1 Viewer)

[Larry Sutliff]

I ordered mine online from DVDEmpire, and they shipped it yesterday. That's a sign that retailers aren't receiving the disc until the last minute, because DVDEmpire usually ships my stuff out on the Thursday or Friday before street date. I should have mine tommorow!

 

[TimJS]

Your Border's mileage may vary...

I called last week, was told that the copy they were to receive would be placed on reserve for me. Checked the store's inventory this morning at Borders.com & the title isn't showing up, so called again. They do not have it yet.

Won't be too surprized if it doesn't show up till next week.

Tim

 

[Eric Peterson]

Yep,

I just called Borders and they said that they have 2 on order, but didn't show up yet. Followed by the usual "Distributor Delay" excuse.

DVD Planet doesn't show the disc as in stock yet either.

 

[Eric Peterson]

Anybody have any luck yet?

I've tried calling my local store, two Borders, & two Barnes & Nobles and nobody has it and a couple of them didn't have any idea what I was talking about.

I was going to call Suncoast, but they don't even list the title on their website.

 

[Larry Sutliff]

I just received mine from DVD Empire. The cover art is gorgeous, the case is very sturdy. I haven't cracked it open yet, but the DVD looks like it's going to be a class act.

 

[Larry Sutliff]

I just saw this on the Creepy Classics website:




I watched the 1929 version last evening, and though the picture was gorgeous, I did notice some ghosting. I wonder if this could be a PAL related problem?

 

[Mark_vdH]

The gosting could also be a normal "tracer" effect that's present in the actual film image.

I believe this happened sometimes in the old days, but as I've never seen this movie (I've ordered it with The Devil and Daniel Webster so I'll have to wait a few weeks longer), maybe someone who actually has some knowledge can answer.

 

[Bill Burns]

You're referring to the new Milestone edition, Larry? You've watched the '29 Photoplay restoration, and the Ghost phantoms? Er, I mean, the Phantom ghosts? Freeze frames have the occasional odd frame that looks double exposed? (This is a sure sign of PAL conversion, or at least seems to be if it persists when your player's pause mode is set to automatic, as the other setting on my player seems to create ghosts on just about every speed-adjusted title; leaving it on automatic, only PAL conversions maintain freeze frame ghosts)? Oh man. I thought we'd established, with The Chess Player, that Milestone was using new NTSC masters for these releases.

Roderick, if you're around, have you had a chance to watch The Chess Player yet? Are on-line reviews in error? Is there evidence of ghosting on that title as well?

If so, this places the entire Milestone/Photoplay line in question, including November's release of It. This is very disheartening; if anyone can compare the ghosting on Phantom to other recent culprits (WB's The Gold Rush, for instance), and give some idea of how it stacks up in the conversion world (is it more or less distracting than that release or other PAL conversions we might name, etc.), that would very helpful.

I hope Mark's right and what Larry describes is something other than (and far less distracting than) a PAL conversion. If this is a PAL conversion, I can't begin to express how disappointing that'll be. Milestone's track record is so excellent, though, that I'm still ready to give them the benefit of the doubt until we can confirm that this is, indeed, ghosting. But the sooner we can make that confirmation one way or the other, the better for potential buyers. Anything further that Larry can offer, and any reactions from others who've seen it, are most welcome.

 

[Larry Sutliff]

Another note regarding picture quality: Once in a while, a strange "freeze frame" effect is evident; figures in motion seem to stop -- very, very briefly, in a blink of the eye, but they do stop. Another PAL to NTSC conversion problem?

I'm not really technically savvy, but I noticed this as well. It didn't really bother me. I was just giddy being able to hear the original 1929 sound synchronization. I enjoyed the disc, but I hope this isn't a problem that could have been easily corrected.

 

[Larry Sutliff]

I watched all of the Chaplin DVD's, and the problem was practically non-existent for me on those. It's much more prevalent on PHANTOM.

 

[Eric Peterson]

I was hoping that I'd hear something offical on the release date. If it was pushed back a week, that answers a lot of questions.

I have been able to find any websites that list the titles as in stock, and I've made 8 phone calls, all of which said they didn't have it or simply said "DUUUUUUUUUHHHHHH. Phantom of the what?"

 

[Mark Zimmer]

From six weeks ago in this thread:

A nasty thought occurred to me. Since Brownlow is in the UK are these going to be transferred from PAL masters? I.e., will there be the motion blur artifacts that afflict the Chaplin discs and The Adventures of Prince Achmed (also from Milestone)? If so, I shall be justifiably furious.

I hate it when I'm right about things like this.

 

[Bill Burns]

Significantly worse than the Chaplins, Larry? Is it possible this is a mastering glitch they're correcting with the announced delay? The Chaplins were a real problem for me, but to be much worse would be unwatchable, I should say!

Hmmm. I just don't know. Hopefully we can get to the bottom of this. Mark, you're not alone: I hate it when you're right about such things, too. I've seen this problem with Kino (The Iron Mask is a stellar, definitive silent DVD transfer just itching to get out from behind the PAL conversion 8 ball), and I know you have as well, but I just didn't expect it of Milestone, particularly given the positive (albeit minor) buzz around The Chess Player. I can't imagine they'd create new masters for some of the Photoplays and neglect to do so for others (such would only further illustrate the depth of trouble for those who bought several of the titles). But then again, anything's possible.

My fingers are still crossed. Report back on your freeze frame experience when you have a chance, Larry.

 

[Patrick McCart]

The motion blur may not be PAL conversion, but an artifact of the slowed down frame speed.

 

[Bill Burns]

The restoration utilizes multiple frame rates, unlike most silent films which slow their playback speed but maintain the same rate throughout, so I suppose this could cause problems for some display devices/players ... I'm unsure. Off-hand, I wouldn't think so (a solid NTSC master at any native speed looks great on DVD, but there do seem to be problems, at least with my Sony, involving "locking" onto a frame field at non-24 fps rates -- or rather NTSC video rates, up around 29 fps and "tricked" into looking right as per the NTSC spec --, thus my comments earlier about "automatic" freeze frame modes ... so it's certainly possible alternating rates would exacerbate this problem), but I don't know of any multiple-rate films on disc to which it could be compared. Such an anomaly is certainly possible, and if unavoidable ... well, so be it.

Hmmm. If it's a mastering glitch and the delay is to create a fix (maybe a physically defective batch of discs went out?), I trust e-tailers who received bad discs return them for the corrected versions, and anyone who received a copy in error (I assume yours came by e-tailer, Larry?) will have a remedy offered them by which they might exchange their copies for the correction. If this happens, it needs to be announced -- this shouldn't be a "buyer beware" industry, but anytime a company lets an error slide or corrects it but doesn't tell those who received copies with the error, it becomes just that.

My copy won't ship for a few weeks, thanks to a larger order of which it's a part. If copies aren't yet available by then, I'll have to cancel it and re-order later. I hope the discs are made available, corrected if need be, as quickly as possible.

But that isn't to say this problem is correctable -- the delay could be a coincidence. Keep the reactions comin', guys.

 

[Larry Sutliff]

Significantly worse than the Chaplins, Larry? Is it possible this is a mastering glitch they're correcting with the announced delay? The Chaplins were a real problem for me, but to be much worse would be unwatchable, I should say!

Bill,
I didn't have a problem at all with the Chaplins; I never once noticed the PAL conversion artifacts on any of those DVD's, and I'm quite pleased with them. Even the noticable glitches on PHANTOM didn't render it unwatchable for me, but I did notice them, so that might be a bad sign for those who had a problem with the Chaplin Collection.
I don't know if hardware has anything to do with it. I've watched all of these DVD's on a Panny RP-82; the Chaplins were viewed on a Samsung PLK403W LCD set, and the PHANTOM on my new Panny 47WX53. I don't know if the change in televisions would make a difference; I'll check out one of the Chaplins on the new set later to see.

 

[Larry Sutliff]

I studied the PHANTOM DVD a bit more. Most of the time when I freeze frame the image it looks fine; at other times, particularly during high motion scenes(the final chase), there is a definite blurryness or ghosting that looks like what Bill has described on the Chaplin thread. I watched whole portions of the film-the unmasking, the Masquerade Ball-and it looks very watchable to my eyes, all things considered.
I also checked out the GOLD RUSH for comparisions sake. I picked a high motion scene(the Tramp dancing with Georgia), and maybe noticed a slight blur, but nothing as noticable as what can be seen on certain portions of PHANTOM. However, when I used still frame, the GOLD RUSH blurring and ghosting became very noticable, much more so than on most portions of PHANTOM. So it may not be a PAL issue at all. I hope more people get this so they can see what I'm describing. Perhaps I did get a copy that was defective and perhaps there will be some kind of recall. Even if there isn't, I found the picture to be livable. I won't be too upset if this is as good as the DVD gets, because it's still pretty darn good(and the supplements are great!).

 

[Randy A Salas]

I noticed the blurred motion when I watched the DVD. I've contacted the producer of the DVD and will post his response once I get it.

 

[Randy A Salas]

I asked Dennis Doros, owner of Milestone Films, which released The Phantom of the Opera: Ultimate Edition, about the blurring of motion on the DVD. He offered the following explanation:

Dennis Doros, Milestone Films: It has nothing to do with PAL or the restoration process. It turns out Photoplay did their speed corrections back then via tape to tape AFTER the conversion from film. This is what caused the motion blur in some of their transfers, though with the equipment today, it wouldn't happen. Sadly, it was a tradeoff between that and the superior restoration work they had done. One bonus -- Scott MacQueen spent literally 100 hours on video cleanup so that almost all the dust, speckles, scratches and framelines that are in every other master (especially the bal masque sequence) no longer exist.

So that would appear to be the final word. The disc is not defective, so obviously there will be no fix. Any delays in getting the DVD are due to delays in the distribution process and not due to manufacturing or mastering problems.

I hope this helps. This can be reposted elsewhere with proper attribution to the Star Tribune and Dennis.

 

[Tony Scello]

Randy,
Thanks for the information. I have this on pre-order(now back-ordered) but I'm still trying to gauge how distracting this issue really is. Would the average viewer notice anything at all during normal play or is this something that's only noticable when the picture is paused or viewed frame by frame? Does the superior restoration offset any minor blurred motion or is the film made unwatchable in your view?