Peter Staddon chat addendum: MOULIN ROUGE DTS QUESTION

Discussion in 'Archived Threads 2001-2004' started by Ronald Epstein, Dec 3, 2002.

  1. Ronald Epstein

    Ronald Epstein Founder
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    Peter informed me that one of the answers he gave
    to last evening's question by Hakan Powers concerning
    the alleged Moulin Rouge DTS defect was indeed
    answered but somehow did not get posted.
    I have updated the chat transcript to reflect Peter's
    answer, and you can bet that I am going to post the
    original question and his new response below...

    (HakanPowers) Good morning (!) Peter, thanks for joining us today! What are the chances of an anamorphic Wing Commander ever seeing the light of day? also, did the situation with the problematic DTS track on Moulin Rouge ever get solved?
    (peterstaddon) Wing Commander has had it's time on DVD, there will never be another version. The Moulin rouge DTS synch issue has been a bit of a puzzle to us, DVCC and DTs. After we heard the reports of problems we pulled 250 samples of the title from random manufacturing batches and tested them. We were not able to find a synch problem in normal usage. The only way we could get a synch problem to occur was to start the disc with one of the 5.1 tracks - either dolby or DTS - and play it for at least 10 minutes, and then switch the audio to the other 5.1 format using the remote. If you play the title from beginning to end with either DTS or Dolby selected we were unable to replicate any synch issues.I think I posted about this some time back.

    Hope that helps!
     
  2. DaViD Boulet

    DaViD Boulet Lead Actor

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    He doesn't mention what brands of DVD players they used. I doubt the sync issue has anything to do with particular "batches" of the DVD. It seems to have more to do with the paticular model DVD player one has...and the problem is consistent with *all* Moulin Rouge DVDs on that player.
    I'll lend him my Panny rp91. He and the others can see very quickly how the synch problems looks!
    There's no secret as the brands of DVD players that have exhibited the problem. Fox should make an effort to test the disc on those players. If they did and still did not see a problem...that's a different story, but the above statements don't seem to indicate that (it seems rather they were focusing on certain discs having a problem rather than certain models of DVD players).
    dave [​IMG]
     
  3. Brendon

    Brendon Second Unit

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    David,
    As one of the people with this particular title/player combo problem, I'm sad that Fox have been unable to determine the problem.
    However it is *very* gratifying to read that both Mr. Staddon and Fox took the problem raised and acted upon it. Whilst it is possible the problem is player specific, is there not the posibility that even within certain models that there may be firmware differences that could account for the problem ?
    It is also possible that Fox may observe the problem if they use the players highlighted in the Potential Moulin Rouge DTS Problem thread. I would expect that this would involve pulling people away from existing Quality Assurance work on new titles, unless Fox employ QA folk to sit around idle [​IMG] Even if the problem was observed and it's cause identified there is no guarantee that a repressing would be offered or even viable.
    I am not attempting to dismiss the problem. I think this may just be one of those times that we're not going to get the answer we want.
    And should Mr. Staddon be lurking and reading this, I for one am thankful that the matter was taken seriously and looked into. Cheers!
    Brendon
     
  4. Carlo Medina

    Carlo Medina Executive Producer

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    Hmmm, I have an RP91 and the DTS of MR plays fine on it.

    I've seen what Quality Control people have to do at DVD mastering facilities - it's very akin to QC for SOFTWARE (think Microsoft software and if they've ever released a version free of bugs), rather than say mastering a VHS tape. Just because there's a problem, even one seemingly as widespread as this one, doesn't make it easy to diagnose...or even diagnosable at all! There's so many different components to a DVD player, and so many steps to decoding, that unless it's a major FUBAR error in mastering, some of these glitches are nearly impossible to track down.

    I'm willing to cut Peter and Fox a break on it (partially I guess because I don't have the error) based on their excellent track record and their care for the customer.
     
  5. Patrick Sun

    Patrick Sun Moderator
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    There's always the chance that upgrading the firmware in the Panny RP91 might help with the dts lip sync problem. The latest version was Version 2.50 for the firmware IIRC.
     
  6. David Lambert

    David Lambert Executive Producer

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    Patrick, what's the easist way to get a firmware upgrade for a Panasonic player?
     
  7. Dave Miller

    Dave Miller Supporting Actor

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    Patrick,

    I second David's question: "What's the easist way to get a firmware upgrade for a Panasonic player?"

    I need details.

    Peace,

    DM
     
  8. Joseph S

    Joseph S Cinematographer

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    I don't know if it corrects the problem, but here's the link.
    RP91 Firmware Upgrades at AVS
    Update: AVS appears to be down at the moment. 12/3/02 10:19EST
     
  9. LarryH

    LarryH Supporting Actor

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    I think it's high time Panasonic made the firmware upgrade for the RP-91 available to the general public. Since it can obviously be done by knowledgeable consumers, surely Panasonic can figure out how to do it. My dealer certainly is unaware of any such upgrade. Panasonic should follow the example of Pioneer which has made available a free upgrade for their DVR-7000.

    Maybe Fox can tell us which players they used which did NOT show the DTS error on Moulin Rouge.
     
  10. Scott Merryfield

    Scott Merryfield Executive Producer

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    FYI, my RP-91 has been upgraded to firmware version 250, and there is no apparent lip synch issue that I can determine with the DTS track on Moulin Rouge.

    It is nice to see Fox listen to customer issues and take the time to investigate potential problems, even when they are difficult to isolate.
     
  11. TonyD

    TonyD Who do we think I am?
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    i have version 250 and get the synch problem.
     
  12. Malcolm R

    Malcolm R Executive Producer

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    No problems on my Panasonic A-112.

    While I'm a huge fan of DTS, as long as everyone can play the the DD track without errors I doubt Fox will issue a recall/corrected disc. When Universal did it on Jurassic Park, that was a disc that was specifically marketed as a "DTS Edition."
     
  13. GlennH

    GlennH Cinematographer

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    Just FYI, if you have the Panasonic RP-91 and want to check what firmware version it has:

    With one hand, simultaneously press the STOP, PAUSE, and OPEN/CLOSE buttons on the RP-91 face, while ...

    With the other hand, press 7 on the remote.

    The firmware version will be the last 3 digits shown on the RP-91 face display.
     
  14. Hakan Powers

    Hakan Powers Stunt Coordinator

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    I was wondering why I never saw an answer to my question.. didn't want to raise the issue but I'm glad Peter did !

    Thanks
     
  15. Carlo Medina

    Carlo Medina Executive Producer

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    Yup, see the varying results from the same players w/ the same firmware? This is what I mean by these things being very hard to diagnose. I'm actually going to try to upgrade my firmware (don't have Moulin Rouge probs, but have other probs w/ subtitles on some anime discs). Here goes nothing!
     
  16. Jeff Bamberger

    Jeff Bamberger Second Unit

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    I have played some of the key sequences (I.e., Your Song) on my Panasonic A120 purchased in 1998 (haven't played straight through yet) and I could not notice any problems.
     
  17. Felix Martinez

    Felix Martinez Screenwriter

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  18. Carlo Medina

    Carlo Medina Executive Producer

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    Felix, re-read the posts again, this is not a simple problem!
     
  19. Felix Martinez

    Felix Martinez Screenwriter

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  20. jonathan_little

    jonathan_little Stunt Coordinator

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    I'm unable to change the audio track while the film is running using the remote. My Pioneer DV-440 shows the little icon that indicates the function is blocked by the software. In fact, I don't know of one dts title in my collection which will allow switching the audio track on the fly. What am I missing here?

    I was hoping that perhaps the upcoming single disc release would resolve this issue. Since Fox can't even replicate it, I guess I shouldn't plan on that happening. I'm curious as well if different setups were used during Fox's tests on this title.

    Not only is this problem an embarrassment for Fox, but for THX certification label as well. I need to warn people before I show them this DVD, "OK, this is the best way to hear the film, but unfortunately this soundtrack has some lip-sync issues. You've been warned."
     

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