PC to receiver help (trying to get HD) (1 Viewer)

[MBAV]

I'm trying to get the highest possible resolution from my laptop into my monitor, and eventually into a hdtv. Here are the details of how I plan to do this - my laptop has only a VGA out, but according to the graphic card specs, it has the ability to use a component adapter, which can be set to different HD resolutions (link below), so I plan to run a component cable from that adapter into the component in on a Pioneer VSX-919AH-K receiver, then go from the hdmi out of the receiver into a samsung 2033sw computer monitor with a hdmi to dvi cable, and then eventually a hdmi to hdmi cable to a hdtv being according to the receiver specs it has Analog to HDMI Video Up Conversion, hoping that I will get the best resolution and ease of hook up possible from this laptop. Thoughts? Also if that method through the receiver will not work, my second plan of action is to buy a component to dvi cable and run that from the adapter straight into my monitor. will any of this work, any thoughts on my process?

The audio will be run from an optical out of my sound card into the optical in on the back or the receiver.
I will also be running a digital mixer into a digital in on the receiver while trying to have the monitor still on, will this work?
At times I will want the audio the receiver plays to be from the optical in with the monitor on, and then other times the audio from the digital coax in with the monitor still on from the PC. Will this work?

www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx

www.pioneerelectronics.com/PUSA/Products/HomeEntertainment/AV-Receivers/PioneerReceivers/ci.VSX-919AH-K.Kuro

 

[Stephen Tu]

Uh, it will probably work, but why so complicated, what are you hoping to gain by running through the receiver??? Why not just hook the laptop straight to the monitor using std VGA cable?

Conversion to component is only necessary if you had an old HDTV with only component video inputs. Anything newer rates to have a VGA in you can just use directly.

 

[MBAV]

The vga to component adapter can set output resolution from the laptop to the hd signals, with just the vga I cannot, right? I plan on getting my laptop to hook up to a tv to play movies from a blu ray drive, and also on a standard pc monitor that can play in 1080. Going into the reciever allows me to make this connection from my laptop with only the vga out because my current monitor has only dvi-d input, which means my receiver needs to convert the component signal from my laptop to digital which it says it does.
This is listed in the brochure.
›› Analog to Analog Video Up/Down Conversion
›› Analog to HDMI Video Up Conversion

not sure if this actually works though as I am still waiting on the cables to try. So I am hoping by routing my laptop to my receiver it will enable the closest hd signal to any output, and also the ability to use only one hdmi to the TV, and also give me the ability to hook my analog laptop signal to my standard PC monitor which only accepts digital in through the dvi port, or the VGA which I can't use the VGA to VGA, due to the component adapter that gives me the HD signals

but this is the first time I have ever messed with any of this stuff, so im. learning as I go and could be completely wrong in my theories.
Here is why:
Once I hook the VGA to component adapter from my laptop up I am stuck in analog component world until I can route the signal somewhere to change it's wiring and signal, I am assuming that the reciever will do that, or if it cannot I will have to buy a new tv and PC monitor that can accept the component cable input from a laptop.

 

[Stephen Tu]

Man, I can't understand 75% of what you just wrote, it's a mess.

Your best quality, from laptop to monitor, is going to be by simply going VGA->VGA, set to the native resolution of your monitor, which is 1600x900. None of this VGA->component->receiver->HDMI->DVI nonsense which introduces all kinds of rescaling issues which would only make things worse.

Blu-ray drive -- What sort of drive? I don't think these are going to be compatible with a laptop w/o HDMI output, they usually require HDCP capable video cards from what I understand.

Exactly what model TV are you trying to connect this to, or do you not have one yet?

If your goal is to get Blu-ray output from an old laptop, I don't think you are going to be successful in your endeavor. If you are merely wanting to get output of DVD or output of downloaded/streamed video, this is possible, but I think you are making things way too complicated, and are confused about what is the best way to connect for best quality.

If you need simultaneous output to both monitor & TV at the same time, you won't be able to get optimal video quality, since they will have different resolutions. It would be best to use a VGA switch, and only use one at a time.


Edited by Stephen Tu - 8/10/2009 at 01:04 am GMT

 

[David Willow]

You know, by the time you get done buying all these adapters to make things work (or not), you will have spent as much as the cheap $129 ($98 when on sale) BD players at WalMart. Listen to Stephen and keep it simple. If you want a cheap BD player, they are not so expensive any more....

http://www.walmart.com/catalog/product.do?product_id=10825995

 

[MBAV]

but what if the PC monitor can display 1080? you don't think it would be worth it to up convert to digital or upscale the laptop signal? I mean I could just go vga to vga with the monitor, but using the adapter so I can get to the tv, I just thought it would make sense to send the component signal to the monitor as well, or even look into getting a monitor that can display 1080

This way when switching from tv to pc all i have to do is switch the hdmi out cable, instead of taking off the adapter, and connecting the pc monitor vga.

Most of this process is to get the laptop signal to a large hdtv, at optimal quality, but I was just going to include going to a standard pc monitor just for ease of hook up.

I am planning to install a panasonic UJ225 blu ray dvd player and burner, which should work with hdcp, and the only problem I saw was that through the adapter it states that playing copy protected movies it limits it to the lower resolutions, There is a possibility that the hdcp will prevent even coming out of my laptop, even though my ati 2300hd card says it is HDCP compliant or at least ready which I now know doesn't mean it is guaranteed to work, or even that it will send the best signal; but I was hoping to correct that in the receiver phase, or maybe buy a new receiver that upscales to 1080 for the tv to fix this issue if the hdcp will allow it through.

Also I don't really plan to have both the computer output and tv hooked up at the same time, but just the ability to switch with ease.

Thanks for the link I may look into that, but the main reason in not doing that would be so I could stream HD content from my computer through an online service, or play hd files from the computer.

Edited by MBAV - 8/10/2009 at 01:58 am GMT

 

[Stephen Tu]

but what if the PC monitor can display 1080? you don't think it would be worth it to up convert to digital or upscale the laptop signal?

I think you completely misunderstand how displays work. Digital panels like LCDs and modern HDTVs have a so-called "native resolution". This is how many actual physical pixels they have. Your Samsung LCD has a native resolution of 1600x900. HDTVs these days typically have a native resolution of 1920x1080 (for the 1080p models), or 1366x768 (for the so-called "720p" models, sometimes misleadingly labeled "1080i", even though in reality they are "768p"). No matter what input resolutions they accept, in the end, everything is scaled to that native resolution. So if you tried your VGA->component->upscale->HDMI->DVI thing, essentially you are going from 1280x720p component out, converting to 720p HDMI in the receiver, then the monitor scales this up to 1600x900. Even if you went with the 1019 receiver instead of the 919, which could convert the 1280x720 to 1920x1080p, the monitor would scale this back down to 1600x900. Furthermore, *upscaling doesn't actually add resolution or improve the picture at all*. It's not magic fairy dust that can change an SD picture into an HD one. Picture quality is fundamentally limited by the resolution output by the video card. Scaling only does one thing, makes it worse, the goal is to do as little damage as possible. The scaling is a necessity if the output resolution doesn't match the native resolution, otherwise the picture wouldn't fill the display. The best possible quality is achieved when the source device generates output equal to the display resolution, here with the laptop set to 1600x900 out.

Most of this process is to get the laptop signal to a large hdtv, at optimal quality, but I was just going to include going to a standard pc monitor just for ease of hook up.

Which TV? Most new TVs have a VGA in. Quality would depend on what resolutions your video card supports. Can it be set for 1920x1080? It would be easiest by far to just use VGA only for both, just use a switch to back and forth, change resolutions or get a monitor that can support the same resolution as your TV is using. That is get a 1920x1080p TV, and a 1920x1080 monitor, use VGA for both. (Though do some research on the TV before you get it, some don't accept 1080p through their VGA inputs).

I am planning to install a panasonic UJ225 blu ray dvd player and burner, which should work with hdcp, and the only problem I saw was that through the adapter it states that playing copy protected movies it limits it to the lower resolutions,

I don't know whether or not you'll be able to achieve high resolution output from the computer over VGA. If you can't, the receiver definitely can't change anything. It would be far easier to just get a standalone Blu-ray player, guaranteed to work plus you'll get full audio quality. Blu-ray through PC is a massive pain especially working with an old laptop with limited output types. It's hard enough already on a desktop PC with new video/sound cards.

 

[MBAV]

Video card specs
http://ati.amd.com/products/mobilityradeonhd2300/specs.html

adapter specs
http://www.svideo.com/hdtvr8500.html

I am pretty sure my card can output those resolutions, but can it still do it through the VGA? I assumed that I needed to use the adapter to make it do that, and once I use the adapter I need that component cable to go somewhere. I hear what you are saying, and perhaps for my monitor hook up I should just use the vga to vga.
What I can't understand is the purpose of the ati VGA to component adapter.

I have considered getting a monitor like this one
[SIZE= smaller]T220HD[/SIZE]www.samsung.com/us/consumer/detail/spec.do

Then I can just hook the component out of my laptop to component in of the monitor, and problem solved, but being I only have dvi-d input on my current monitor, I assumed it would be best to go through the receiver to turn my analog signal to digital. But I will check out the quality and see if any issues arise and if it does, I will remove the adapter when viewing laptop to external monitor and leave it on when going to the HDTV.

 

[MBAV]

good advice so far, and I apprecieate the conversation, I just needed to talk about the process.

so if i get a tv with vga in and make sure it accepts 1080 through the VGA input, I will be able to play HD from my computer to the tv at the best quality instead of going through the receiver? I just assumed that the VGA was less quality and that I needed to utilize the component adapter to use the HD output of the video card. and also assumed that by utilizing the component out of the video card I could actually get better quality into my samsung pc monitor, then just going vga to vga

 

[Stephen Tu]

VGA isn't inherently either better or worse than component. It's just using RGB rather than Y/Pb/Pr, a mathematical transformation of the color space. ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/YCbCr#Technical_details ) Plus the syncing works a little differently, and you have many more resolution options catering to all the different sizes of computer monitors over the years. For quality purposes all that really matters is matching source resolution to display resolution.

Straight VGA at 1080p is definitely going to be better than the convolutions you were suggesting before. Just need to confirm that
1. Laptop actually can be set to output at 1920x1080p (if not, just use a lower res, it won't be ideal but should look OK)
2. TV you get actually accepts it. (Some older lame ones that only accept 1080p through HDMI, for some reason their VGA doesn't.)

Now whether you can get Blu-ray to play at full res over VGA on your current laptop, I don't know, I'm not expert on that part. Your laptop CPU/video card combo might or might not be fast enough for smooth 1080p playback. HDCP hopefully won't restrict playback in absence of the "image constraint token". Search in the HTPC forum here or over at avsforum for others using your combo of equipment, post your specs there & someone will probably know.

For Blu-ray, I would just go for a separate player, even if the video issue can be handled, it would be better for audio anyway. Just use laptop for music, web browsing, downloaded/streaming video (Hulu, Netflix, Youtube, Amazon) IMO.

 

[MBAV]

I surrender, for some reason I had it in my head that the adapter was enabling the hd signal, which may or may not be the case, but I am thinking it isn't. Now my thoughts are that it just enables you to get your signal out of the laptop through a different connector right? In that case I just need to hook my laptop to my current tv component to component through the adapter, and call it a day.

Hook my laptop up to my pc monitor through VGA to VGA. Call it a day.


One concern in doing it this way, without routing through the receiver is that it prevents me from getting the audio and video from my laptop to the tv, and back to the receiver speakers with hdmi cables, but I can see where trying to do that can just create problems.

So as long as I output the highest resolution available from my laptop through the VGA into my monitor its as good as it gets?
Then if I want to get my laptop to a tv of choice go with component ouput from the adapter into component input on the tv, or if it has VGA, just go VGA to VGA, and bypass the adapter but make sure, if I buy a tv with the VGA input it accepts the 1080 through the VGA. As far as the audio I guess I will run from the optical out of my sound card into the optical in of the tv, and then output the sound from my tv into the receiver through hdmi, and then hopefully I will be able to play my tv audio and computer audio through the receiver speakers.

Edited by MBAV - 8/10/2009 at 05:08 pm GMT

 

[David Willow]

Almost there...

Run the optical from your computer to the receiver. The TV will not pass the digital sound back to the receiver.

Also, AFAIK, there is no way to get the HD soundtracks from your laptop to the receiver, even if you somehow used HDMI to carry the signal...

 

[MBAV]

hmm, i was really hoping to be able to have the sound from the laptop play through the tv speakers in case I wanted to leave the receiver off, and when I didn't just cut the receiver on, and walla sound from the receiver speakers from the tv and laptop.

but this can't work? or will the tv just not send the digital signal back even with an hdmi out to hdmi in of my receiver.

So perhaps to the second part basically reveals the need to just stick with using a stand alone blu ray player.

oh well I guess if I want to burn high capacity discs I will just have to keep the viewing and burning worlds apart.

perhaps I am in the market for a blu ray player and a new tv. not anytime soon though, as all this recent stuff has broken the bank.

 

[Stephen Tu]

Now my thoughts are that it just enables you to get your signal out of the laptop through a different connector right?

Exactly. But that adapter may not work with your laptop at all, I would be surprised if it did. You might need something more like:
http://www.hdtvsupply.com/vicamdin9pit.html
Or maybe it just can't be done with your laptop; chip support for component doesn't mean the video card implementation actually provides a way to give component out. Give the exact model #.

One concern in doing it this way, without routing through the receiver is that it prevents me from getting the audio and video from my laptop to the tv, and back to the receiver speakers with hdmi cables

Just run the laptop audio straight to the receiver. Use digital if available, else get a 3.5mm->RCA adapter, or perhaps get a USB sound card w/ digital out. Sound is never going "back to the receiver" with HDMI cables. Doesn't happen with TVs with HDMI 1.3 (maybe in 1.4). For current TVs, HDMI is a one-way deal, it is going from receiver to the TV carrying the video, the only thing going back is stuff for handshaking, for encryption + announcing supported resolutions via EDID. For HDMI sound you need it from the source itself to the receiver.

So as long as I output the highest resolution available from my laptop through the VGA into my monitor its as good as it gets?

Not "highest resolution". Matching native resolution. 1600x900 for the current monitor.

As far as the audio I guess I will run from the optical out of my sound card into the optical in of the tv, and then output the sound from my tv into the receiver through hdmi

TVs have optical OUTS not INs. And as explained before the HDMI is for receiver->TV not TV->receiver.

 

[Stephen Tu]

hmm, i was really hoping to be able to have the sound from the laptop play through the tv speakers in case I wanted to leave the receiver off

So just run regular analog sound to the TV from the laptop, run the digital to the receiver.

but this can't work? or will the tv just not send the digital signal back even with an hdmi out to hdmi in of my receiver

TVs don't have HDMI OUT, only IN.

 

[MBAV]

Thanks again for all the help, it seems the adapter didn't work like you said the chip set ( ati mobility radeon 2300hd) supports the component out but apparently gateway or whoever put the chipset in the laptop didn't enable it, so I am currently running VGA to the monitor, and digital out audio to the receiver, and looking into buying a stand alone blu ray player and running that through a hdmi to dvi cable to my current monitor, and the audio from the player into an optical input on the receiver. and not messing with anything else,


Edited by MBAV - 8/11/2009 at 04:43 am GMT