paying methods and second hand

Discussion in 'AV Receivers' started by BarOr, May 28, 2004.

  1. BarOr

    BarOr Stunt Coordinator

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    I'm not sure that this is the right place to ask this
    but I will give it a try...

    When Buying from second hand what method of payment should
    I chose?
    Is there any method which I can regret and my money will be sent back and the gear that I bought too (To the seller).
    Usually fraud seller uses what (paying method) ?
    What is paypal?
     
  2. ScottCHI

    ScottCHI Screenwriter

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  3. John Garcia

    John Garcia Executive Producer

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    I use Paypal exclusively when buying used gear. [​IMG]
     
  4. Mark All

    Mark All Second Unit

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    I prefer to buy used items locally if they're available so I can check them out before paying. I pay cash if the item is as advertised. This works out very well if one happens to be in a major metropolitan area where there are a lot of people always trading up to new equipment. Wait long enough and a lot of good things come available. I usually check Audiogon rather than Ebay.

    I use PayPal or USPS money orders if buying from a distance, but always pay very close attention to feedback profiles.

    Never been burned this way.
     
  5. Wayne A. Pflughaupt

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    Bar,

    If you’re using eBay, they have fraud insurance for anything over $40, I think.

    If the seller’s reliability is in question, or if the amount is fairly large, or if I’m buying off-eBay, I always request COD, with payment by a cashier’s check or money order from my bank. The reason: It’s not well-known, but with one of those (I forget which, the bank could tell you) you can issue a stop-payment. This way you have a few of days to check out the gear before the seller gets the payment in-hand. Plenty of time to stop-payment, if necessary.

    Regards,
    Wayne A. Pflughaupt
     
  6. BarOr

    BarOr Stunt Coordinator

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    What is COD and how do you stop the payment?
     
  7. John Robert

    John Robert Stunt Coordinator

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    I have bought almost my entire set-up from Audiogon, some new and some used. I have based the details of my transactions on the seller's feedback, both quantity and quality. With a newer seller, I use my Amex card thru Paypal (although this adds a 2.9% fee) on the theory that the credit card company will dispute the transaction if fraud is involved. I have never hesitated to send a cashier's check or money order to an established seller, and I have had only positive experiences with the merchandise I've received.

    IMO, if the rest of the world conducted itself with the honor and integrity that one finds with A'gon and it's participants, it would be a much better place to live...

    John
     
  8. BarOr

    BarOr Stunt Coordinator

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    sorry about ignorance but how do i do it?
    Let me clear the question:
    Is there any way to abort payment in case of a fraud
    (for example: I bought preamp in the internet but the seller never send me anything)?
    How do i do it?
     
  9. Wayne Ernst

    Wayne Ernst Cinematographer

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    Essentially, no. Sure, you might have some protection from your credit card - but, you'll have to check with them on their fraud policies.

    In regards to PayPal, you should check out their policies here:

    PayPal Buyer's Policies/Protection

    Aside from that, keep in mind that all sellers are not criminals. Every now and then, there might be a transaction that has turned sour. However, in my many, many years of dealing on the Internet, I've had nothing but success in my transactions.

    Common sense also has to play a big part here. If something seems too good to be true, well, use your judgement. [​IMG]
     
  10. Wayne A. Pflughaupt

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    It will depend on how payment was made. As noted, you may be able to stop payment on a cashier’s check. If payment was made with a U.S. Postal money order, it may be possible for them to issue a stop payment.

    Also keep in mind, if the U.S. Post Office was involved in any way in the course of the transaction – like if payment or contact was made via mail – it’s a federal offence and you can file a complaint with the post office.

    Regards,
    Wayne A. Pflughaupt
     
  11. BarOr

    BarOr Stunt Coordinator

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    Is b&k ref 50 in 800-700$ is too good to be true right?
    Further more the seller lives (That what he says) in Asia Indonesia and agree to pay for delivery.
    On the other hand he gave me his phone, his work place address and more (I should check about that)
    What do you say?

    Thank you all for answering me
     
  12. Mark All

    Mark All Second Unit

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    Bar,
    Did you by chance bid on Ebay on a Reference 50 and not win it? Did someone then contact you offering to sell you the one you mention for a much lower price? This is one type of scam.

    Frankly, the price is too low. Paypal really doesn't help in scam situations. Suggest you drop the idea of buying from this source. The going price these days is at least $1350, and you would pay for shipping.
     
  13. alan halvorson

    alan halvorson Cinematographer

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    Which is why, as a seller, I won't accept cashiers checks. They can be faked also. Also, as a seller, I won't do COD, although way back when, before the internet, when I used to sell through national publications, I did.

    The best option, if you're uncertain, is to use an escrow service (I never have). Ebay has an escrow service, I believe and there are others. DON'T use a sellers link to an escrow service; that's one of the biggest scams around.
     
  14. Wayne Ernst

    Wayne Ernst Cinematographer

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    Again, if it sounds too good to be true, then watch out. If the going price is $1350, why would someone need to go as low as $700 to dump their item? They could just ask $1200 and sell it very easily.
     
  15. BarOr

    BarOr Stunt Coordinator

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    the escrow service work only in the us don't it?
     
  16. BarOr

    BarOr Stunt Coordinator

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    Is rotel rmb 1075 that costs 366 consider too good to be true (auction)
     
  17. DorianBryant

    DorianBryant Screenwriter

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    don't do what I did. my situation was more infuriating than a case of any real money lost. i won a bid on a pioneer 101 disc cd player. this was advertised as "perfect" condition.

    At this time when the auction was won I was getting out of E-Bay and did not want to use Pay-Pal but sent a money order. Well, a few weeks went by. I made several e-mails with the seller from Texas. He said it was sent on 2 dates. Starting to be a little concerned. Then i start getting some e-mails from other buyers who paid but never received there items from this guy.

    Needless to say in a week period he gets 4 negatives for non-delivery after payment. I hounded him with e-mails and he never responded. I let E-bay know and I also contacted the FTC and internet Fraud Committee. Anyway, 6 weeks later a cd player arrives.

    This thing was stuck in this huge box with a ton of styro-peanuts. It is beat. Scratches a few cracks, etc. I try it out and it works but keeps jamming. I pull it apart and find inside 2 cd's, a screwdriver, and a piece of wrapped bubble gum. I clean it up and it works barely.

    Anyway, it was a waste of $65, but worse is this guy did it to several more people for more money. People like this guy ruin it for those who are honest! Just my rant!
     
  18. DavidNighorn

    DavidNighorn Stunt Coordinator

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    I bought a rotel RB-1090 on Audioon using Paypal as the payment mechanism. My seller went deaf and blind immediately after he got the money in his paypal account. After a huge email trail, I finally filed grievances with Paypal and E-bay. The seller never responded to the process and the case was found in my favor.

    The stupid thing is that he/she never took the money out of the Paypal account. Paypal simply sucked the money out of the account and gave it back to me.

    I found a similar item from a guy in SF who seems to change AV equipment every few weeks. We exchanged a couple of emails, did the Paypal thing, and I now have a pristine RB-1090 in my system.

    David
     
  19. Minesh Patel

    Minesh Patel Stunt Coordinator

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    It is very much a potential jungle. I recently bought a Sherbourne 7/2100 amp through Audiogon from a Florida based seller (I'm in Sacramento). I emailed him a few times, mailed him a check, he waited for it to clear, then sent me a mint condition amp, just as described. Perfect transaction, & I posted feedback to that effect.

    Soon thereafter, I began getting emails from other buyers who had been scammed by this same seller. Apparently this guy decided to build up his feedback history and then used it to bilk several buyers out of a few thousand dollars. I'm just thankful I got my stuff!

    As a safety measure, I would never send a Money Order to a P.O. Box, or use UPS or FEDEX to send payment. Using the US Postal Service to MAIL payment gives you some degree of protection because then fraud becomes a federal offense, and having the Postal Inspector make inquiries can help if you need to file a claim for fraud.

    Also, make sure you keep copies of all correspondence, including a log of emails, phone calls, product description, etc. This can go a long way when you need to pursue a bad seller.
     
  20. Drew_W

    Drew_W Screenwriter

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    Auction prices can remain quite low until the final minutes when a sniping war ensues. There is absolutely *NO* reason to bid until the last minute anyways unless you can't be there (and then if it's important to you, there is a service that can snipe on your behalf...you pay only if you win).

    If buying online:

    1) ALWAYS ALWAYS ALWAYS get pictures. I find it hard to believe that someone this day in age doesn't own a digital camera, or know someone that does. If there's no picture, or just a generic stock photo, I always assume there's a reason for it. You can however, e-mail and ask for pics of the *ACTUAL* unit from *ALL* angles. Any serious honest seller will be happy to provide these to you. If they don't, forget about it.

    2) This goes for any transaction. I hesitate greatly to deal with people who can't reply to my queries in sentence form. I was inquiring about an amp (~$1000) once, and I got a reply back without any punctuation, capitalization, and with consistent spelling and grammar mistakes. If you can't even type e-mails in proper English, why should I trust that person to send me an amp in pristine condition, well packed, and with payment UP FRONT? If a person is serious about seling it, they will give you a nice reply, full of detail.

    3) Wayne said this, and I will say it again. Pay in a way that you can protect yourself. PayPal buyer protection does not work internationally, and only works up to a certain point, and if a whole bunch of criteria are met by the seller. Escrow is the best for larger transactions. If you use PayPal, pay via credit card. If you simply move funds, then you're at the mercy of PayPal...your credit card often offers better fraud protection. Being able to stop payment on certified funds will cost you money, but all will not be lost. The best thing is to...

    4) Check feedback. Extensively. Get a phone number and call and speak to the person selling it. That for me is the best way to increase confidence. You can cross-check the phone number with the name of the seller, and all sorts of things.

    5) Ship by an INSURED (fully...never skimp...UPS loves to destroy things) and TRACKABLE method. Get a copy of the shipment invoice when the seller sends it.

    Nothing is overkill. Better safe than sorry. I paid $200 more to get a new Rotel 1075 from a local authorized dealer versus used from someone I didn't know...and it would have had to be shipped internationally, which puts me at the mercy of Customs...too much hassle, and too many variables I can't control.

    Negotiate with your dealer. 15% off should be easily achieved.

    Caveat emptor.
     

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