Paul Seydor's PAT GARRETT AND BILLY THE KID (1 Viewer)

[John Hodson]

Well, they can right the wrong with Garrett come a BD release but somehow I don't think they will. I listened to the commentary track hoping against hope that David Weddle would stomp all over Seydor's cut, but no. Naive of me.

C'mon Warner, do the right thing and I promise to pony up all over again. Pretty please. With sugar on.

 

[Alex cosmo]

It was interesting that for recent HD tv showings it's actually been the original theatrical version, so the 2005 hasn't totally become the main one out there. So much of the 2005 cut is just the theatrical I don't know why they didn't just make that the 2nd disc (maybe with the option to play it with the bookends intact) and put more effort into presenting the longer cut.

 

[Richard--W]

Originally Posted by Alex cosmo /forum/thread/259134/paul-seydor-s-pat-garrett-and-billy-the-kid/60#post_3611275
It was interesting that for recent HD tv showings it's actually been the original theatrical version, so the 2005 hasn't totally become the main one out there. So much of the 2005 cut is just the theatrical I don't know why they didn't just make that the 2nd disc (maybe with the option to play it with the bookends intact) and put more effort into presenting the longer cut.

Alex, did you see the original 1973 theatrical version on HDTV?
I'm curious where and when it was aired.
That means it was widescreen anamorphic, yes?
Thus far, the original 1973 theatrical version has only been aired in full-screen pan & scan, and the of course the vhs is over 20 years out of print.
If HD broadcasts of the original 1973 theatrical version are in widescreen, I need to have a look.

 

[Alex cosmo]

It was on HDNet Movies several times in the last year. The last time was probably a few months ago. It looked really good to me.

 

[John Hodson]

Small sidebar. Been reading this fascinating interview with screenwriter/author/director Rudy Wurlitzer (ouch, at the kicking Jim Jarmusch gets) and loved his Peckinpah/Dylan story:
"...After Two-Lane Blacktop I was hired to write Pat Garrett and Billy the Kid for Sam Peckinpah. As I was finishing the script, Bob Dylan came over to my apartment on the Lower East Side and asked if maybe he could be involved as he had always felt connected to Billy the Kid, implying that maybe he was a reincarnation of the famous outlaw.
"I called the producer who was thrilled at the thought of a Bob Dylan score and suggested that I write Dylan a part and then fly to Mexico to meet Sam who was busy with pre-production. We arrived in Durango late one evening and immediately went out to see Sam, who was living outside of town. As we approached the house there was a gunshot from inside, followed by a terrified maid running out the front door. Hesitating, we stepped inside as another shot rang out from upstairs. I called out for Sam, but there was no sound, no answer. Fearing the worst, we crept upstairs.
"At the end of the hall we found Sam in his bedroom standing half-naked in front of a smashed full length mirror staring at his shattered image, a pistol in one hand and a bottle of tequila in the other. "Hi, Sam," I finally managed to mumble. "This is Bob Dylan. He wants to be in the film. I've taken the liberty of writing a part for him." After a long pause, Sam turned, slowly looking Dylan over before he replied, "I'm a big Roger Miller fan myself." After another long silence, Dylan and I left and I was sure that was the end of it.
"But amazingly Dylan was thrilled by this meeting with the old outlaw film director, and from then on became an important part of the film, writing one of the all time great scores as well as playing the part of Alias, a mysterious member of Billy the Kid's gang..."

 

[Richard--W]

That's an interesting anecdote from the screen writer who has always been reluctant to discuss Pat Garrett and Billy the Kid. Wurlitzer mentions none of this in his introduction to his published screenplay (a signet paperback, oop). Kristofferson has always said he contacted Dylan and asked him to come to Mexico to meet Peckinpah. Kristofferson's account has always been consistent and is on the DVD supplements. As you say, John, it's an interesting sidebar.

 

[ARublev]

After all these years I finally managed to sit through those two horrendous featurettes on the Pat Garrett DVD set at the weekend, and all I can say is they were (literally) unwatchable. I've tried several times in the past to sit through them but every time after about 5 minutes I had to switch off. What the interviewees (Kristofferson, Donnie Fritts, Katy Haber) all had to say was excellent, but the bulls**t camera work always made me feel dizzy and sea-sick. Why can't we just have a stationary camera filming these people reminiscing and telling their stories, instead of this zany, headache inducing nonsense which completely distracts from what they are saying? I almost buckled again this time but succeeded by switching the picture off and just listening to it. These have to be among the most disappointing "extras" ever featured on a DVD Special Edition since DVDs were invented. Actually, when you consider Paul Seydor's travesty with his '05 version of the film, AND the fact they didn't even bother to restore Peckinpah's Workprint, I would say this set could very well be the most disappointing, Not-So-Special "Special Edition" ever released. We, the fans and paying customers, and this GREAT, GREAT film, deserve better.

 

[Richard--W]

to restore Peckinpah's Workprint ...

Not restoring Peckinpah's Workprint suggests they value their interpretations more than they value Peckinpah, as if he were merely an intellectual exercise instead of a human being. It is the ultimate, and I gather unwitting, insult. One gets the impression that if Peckinpah were still alive, they would not throw him a life preserver if he were drowning because they are too pre-occupied tinkering with his film and having a talkfest about it.

 

[Holer]

This is really interesting - I only watched the DVD without realizing there were multiple versions, etc. and thought 'Pat Garrett'...' was a bit of a hot mess. I consider many of Bad Sam's films to be kind of sloppy and self indulgent with flashes of brilliance and I thought this was more of the same. Stuff like giving Slim Pickens this protracted death scene after being in the movie for five minutes didn't really seem to make much sense. The rest of the film seemed very disjointed too. It was hard to find the rhythm of the thing and it's interesting to know there is a more complete version of Sam's vision. I thought they did a tremendous job restoring 'Major Dundee' - too bad the same can't be said here.

As usual, I learn so much about movies by perusing these posts...

 

[Bob Cashill]

In any version PAT GARRETT is a hot mess.

 

[Richard--W]

The "hot mess" is currently $5.79 at amazon, which suggests it may go out of print soon along with so many of Warner Home Video's other titles. Peckinpah's Workprint is the second disc in the set, and while it may not be restored, it's all there is, so get it while you can.


Richard

 

[Richard--W]

dvdbeaver posted screen captures comparing the director's workprint to Paul Seydor's edit:
 
http://www.dvdbeaver.com/film/DVDReviews20/pat_garrett_and_billy_the_kid.htm

 

[Jake00009]

Pat Garrett is my great great grandfather from my dad's side of the family. My mother talked to my Grandma Garrett about the events and story. I have some of the original pictures of my grandfather Garrett and I have them in perfect condition and in frames.

 

[Richard--W]

As a descendant of Pat Garrett, what do you think of this film? and the way Sheriff Garrett and his wife are portrayed? The late Jarvis Garrett (Pat Garrett's son) told me he did not like the film and did not approve of it. It made him angry, I think.

What is your position on reviving the pardon Gov. Lew Wallace promised the Kid but failed to deliver? Gov. Bill Richardson generated a lot of publicity for himself by taking the pardon under consideration. It was international news. On the last day of his office he decided against issuing the pardon, although the document had been drafted. How does the Garrett family feel about that? You are invited to respond via email or the Private Message function.

Richard--W.

 

[Bob Graham]

I would add to Richard's questions, of all the many versions of the story, which one do you think did the best job of portraying Pat Garrett's story? I'm particularly interested in your opinion of Arthur Penn's "Left Handed Gun".

 

[Richard--W]

Interesting and perceptive review by HTF's Livius, posted today on his blog:
http://filmjournal.net/livius
Perhaps it will prompt reactions in some of you?

 

[Robin9]

Originally Posted by Richard--W
Interesting and perceptive review by HTF's Livius, posted today on his blog:
http://filmjournal.net/livius
Perhaps it will prompt reactions in some of you?

It has prompted me to watch one of the DVDs again.

 

[Colin McGuigan]

Thanks for the plug Richard.

 

[Richard--W]

Robin9:
It has prompted me to watch one of the DVDs again.

Which version and what was your impression?

Someone has made a scene-by-scene and shot-by-shot comparison of the three different versions.
Check it out:

http://listology.com/list/pat-garrett-and-billy-kid-three-films-one-mans-opinion-comparing-three-different-cutsnow-screen#comment-258990

This is exactly what I had in mind when I mentioned above the DVD needed a supplement comparing the different versions and gathering the fugitive shots.

 

[Ed Moroughan]

I finally picked this DVD up and after reading this whole thread skipped right over the 2005 version and went straight to the Preview version. I wouldn't classify it as being as good as The Wild Bunch, but it's up there close to it.