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Parenthood - Season 4 thread (1 Viewer)

Greg_S_H

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She told Haddie she was 22 when she first had sex. Now, we know that wasn't when Haddie was conceived, because you can't get pregnant the first time (joke, kids reading this). I'm sure there has been mention of their wedding anniversary, but I don't know which number it was. I guess we just chalk it up to a lie, though I like to think the writers just don't know what they're doing. LOL. Potter is 41. When searching on kristana Braverman anniversary, the search engine suggested as popular Kristina Braverman annoying. I though I was the only one who thought so!
 

mattCR

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Originally Posted by Patrick Sun
Crap, Haddie and Max, who's the 3rd kid? Oh, the newborn, doh!
The newborn that you absolutely never, ever see .. I mean, when was the last time we saw the infant? It is the quietest baby imaginable because it just never shows up and the parents never have it with them
 

Adam Lenhardt

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I thought Tuesday's episode was the most successful hour the show's had in long time. Just lots of little dramas on the scale most of us can relate to. Given the set up we've gotten so far this season, nothing felt like an especially big reach.
mattCR said:
Some good stuff, a lot on the Joel/Julia front which I have mixed thoughts about, though I think we're going to find out the daughter needling him about a mother who doesn't love him and her jealousy issues are going to get addressed soon.
I thought Tuesday's episode was the first time the Victor storyline really worked. Adopting a foster child, especially one as old as Victor, often means taking in a child with really serious issues. It's not that Sydney was especially awful, she just lacked the life experience to comprehend that her words weren't merely needling but actually over-the-top horrible. It's just she's had a really soft, safe upper-upper-middle class life. She can't even conceive of what Victor's been through or where he's coming from. Julia and Joel's mistake was trying to shield her from it. If they'd explained to her why Victor gets special treatment, and how lucky she is to be forced to eat her broccoli and clean her plate, I don't think the scene in the patio would have happened.
to the Crosby storyline: As to her moving in fixing her finances, I'm not sure.. she'd still need to pay the bills, unless she owns her house and she's going to sell it. and even if that's the case, it won't have an impact 'immediately".
My understanding was that Renee rented her house, since Jasmine mentioned rent payments. I didn't like that it was yet again Jasmine railroading Crosby into a decision he wasn't on board with and would resent her for later. On the other hand, the scene where Renee moved in was exactly right. Just absolutely perfect in a microcosm. Renee, who's looked down on Crosby for the entire series, is gracious and grateful to him for taking her in. And Crosby, feeling that gratitude, isn't resentful anymore at having her in his home. A great moment with two characters at their best. Not pretending that everything's going to be hunky-dory from here, but accepting each other in the best spirit. Lovely.
Greg_S_H said:
Glad to see we didn't run you off, Adam. Your more positive attitude towards the show brings a different perspective, such as the idea that Julia is not up to speed on the basics of childrearing since Joel handled that. They really should develop that and bring this Sydney stuff to a logical resolution.
Thanks, Greg! My guess is that the Victory custody situation is just going to continue to get messy from here.
One of the big problems with this show is that they just don't care about details. For the overnight, my big question was, "What about Max and Nora?" We can assume Amber or Camille was watching them, but a line of dialog to that effect would have been nice. Also, I guess financial worries are a thing of the past with the Luncheonette, since Adam has no further concerns about medical bills, college, a new baby, and now the impromptu extravagance of the limo and fancy hotel.
These are all solid points. I think part of the problem is that Hollywood writers are, by and large, free of monetary concerns -- at least while they've got staff positions on primetime network shows. It's the This is 40 scenario, where the writers assume that everyone lives their lifestyle when it's out of reach for 90 percent or more of their audience. It wouldn't have been as been as jarring if the show hadn't made such a big deal out of the Bravermans' financial problems so much earlier in the season.
Also, the fact that Crosby could offer to drop $5,000 without a concern.
I wouldn't say it's without a concern. He said they "technically" had the money, but it sounded like it would have eaten a good ways into their safety buffer. Jasmine seems like a much more disciplined manager of money than Crosby was as a single guy, but I still would bet they're not that financially secure.
Mike Frezon said:
Outside of "Whose schlong is bigger?" in the opening sequence...this episode was predictable, predictable and then predictable again.  I'm no prude and realize it's after ten o'clock at night.  But that is one classless moment in broadcast television (not that there aren't many others to compare it to) that, to me, is further proof that the writers for Parenthood just don't have anything left to give.
I guess it just shows the differences in what audiences bring to the table. I thought it was a wonderful moment where Kristina got to not be a cancer patient and just be one of the girls again. And yes, that kind of bawdy back-and-forth is a hallmark of many women's girls' nights.
I am having a hard time even dealing with the Sarah/Hank storyline.  Again, Sarah's character tonight decides to force her new man to take her out "on a date" only to then spend the time talking about her former man.  No matter how daft the character of Sarah is written, this is behavior that is hard to explain and justify.
I really, really liked the Sarah/Hank storyline. Sarah's doing the same thing to Hank that she did to Mark, but Hank takes it in a completely different way. He's constantly saying socially inappropriate things, but the flip side of that is that he doesn't resent it when other people say socially inappropriate things. He's dumped his baggage on her all season long, and so he's totally not bothered with her dumping her baggage on him. He knew what was going on in her life when he hopped in bed with her. That's the biggest difference. Mark had this naive vision of what life with Sarah would be like. Hank's going into this thing with his eyes wide open. He knows Sarah's flaws, he accepts her shortcomings, and he knows the risks. He's the kind of guy that expects things to go wrong as is pleasantly surprised when they're less than terrible. The biggest difference is that Mark and Sarah always felt doomed. Sarah and Hank might not work out, but it doesn't feel like a breakup is inevitable. That makes it a lot easier to invest my time than if I'm just counting down the episodes until the relationship ends.
And then there is the storyline broached in the preview of next week's episode.  I won't talk about it here.  I will just give an eyeroll -- :rolleyes: -- and say that this is a worn, old storyline that will yield predictable results.  I have come to expect nothing more from this series. 
It's going to be a real test for the show. On one hand, the storyline is such a "Very Special Episode" storyline. On other other hand, it's a storyline that's almost always handled the same way:
Either the mother miscarries, or the baby's put up for adoption and never spoken of again. It'd be a lot more dramatically interesting if Amy goes ahead and has the abortion, and then Drew's left dealing with the guilt and horror of the aftermath.
David Weicker said:
I have a feeling that Christina was just carrying on the previous 'lie' about her age.
Yes, it was just one last punchline on the joke. You can see Adam cracking up on the side of the frame when she says it.
Greg_S_H said:
She was running around naked under Crosby's care in the Christmas episode.
Yup. Nora's also in more than half of the scenes set at Adam and Kristina's house.
 

mattCR

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Ok, have we ever ended an episode where you hate a character as much as I hate Julia? I don't know.. I can't think of any. The issue with Max was, I thought, handled pretty well. I'm eager for them to drop the Aspberger's bit, now that it's not a diagnostic anymore (more then that, he fits more then 3 criteria, so I don't know if he would have ever been that way unless they wanted to feel that way). His attitude toward bathing/etc. are common issues for people who are autistic.. it rotates between two opposites. You get some who's obsessive compulsion drives them to bath/shower often (multiple times in a day), our son is now like this.. but when he was a bit younger, it was the reverse: WHY do I even do this? Prove it to me this matters. So, I found that storyline very good. In regard to the sexual component, most autistic have a much slower rate of dealing with those issues and it's far more complicated.. if they had back a para (like they had in the first two seasons) they'd tell them exactly how complicated it is and you work through it. Now, the "BIG" story, which is of course going to be the very controversial one. I just have so many issues with it. We spent a few episodes of them making sure Drew had condoms/etc. so to have this as an outcome is a bad combination: (1) it's completely foreshadowed, and (2) it sends the wrong message to the audience as a 1 for 1 case of access to birth control was proven completely ineffective (which is an unrealistic happening). Yes, I realize it's more likely that while he had the option he didn't use it, it makes the show a bit complicit in sending such a bad message that: even with access, don't use! It's a bit on the socially irresponsible side there. In the way the storyline was playing, I somehow felt as though the entire bit was just stolen from Ben Fold's Five "Brick" and written into a script... it was very paint by the numbers. But for as argh as that was, and as I'm sure it's going to turn off a big part of the audience, I still can't think that I still feel like someone should have said: "Maybe you're struggling more because you're a TERRIBLE stay at home parent, why don't you go back to work and be the working parent" to Julia ;)
 

schan1269

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I just watched the "mother in law" episode...will catch the "woops preggo" tomorrow... I still don't understand how they can go from a "put together well" cancer story line(the hair/wig/date out was flawless)... To... "Jump my boss...oopsy, did I do that"(urkel chiming in) To mother in law in crisis...overdone upheaval of "child-man" Crosby(well done the last few episodes of Crosby finally deciding that he wants his family...the bad, with the good) To Julia. Seriously. We know the whole "adoption is hard"...but come on. Can't straight talk to the kid...and then in "beating around the bush" causes neglect of the daughter. I mean come on.
 

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Actually, I liked Julia's character in this episode. I think her thoughts of giving up are common among this type of adoption - especially if you are the 'hated' parent. Where the storyline went wrong, for me, wasn't in the last two episodes, but in earlier episodes when it seemed like Julia and Victor were bonding. Having the writers change the relationship out of the blue (a very common occurrence on this show) is what seems off. Yes, she isn't the greatest parent, but non-great parents exist, and their stories should be told too. The big story this week - eh!. And Max's storyline was an attempt at humor that just didn't work for me. Especially the kitchen scene with Zeke and Camille. If they were going for serious in any part of his storyline, they failed miserably. I did get a kick out of the teaser for next week. Besides the 'oh no, not again' aspect, the one thought that flashed through my head was after Hank's final line was "like that's ever going to happen" Meanwhile I keep watching and mostly keep enjoying. David
 

mattCR

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Originally Posted by David Weicker
Actually, I liked Julia's character in this episode.
I think her thoughts of giving up are common among this type of adoption - especially if you are the 'hated' parent.
Where the storyline went wrong, for me, wasn't in the last two episodes, but in earlier episodes when it seemed like Julia and Victor were bonding. Having the writers change the relationship out of the blue (a very common occurrence on this show) is what seems off.
Yes, she isn't the greatest parent, but non-great parents exist, and their stories should be told too.
Oh, I have no problem with telling the story of not-so-great parents (thus I love Shameless). But the thing with Julia this week struck me as just crazy. This isn't a kid they've had for a few weeks now. It's been part of the summer and deep into the school year, we're talking months at this point. And over the last few weeks they had built this with her working on bribing him, getting his grades better in school.. during summer they worked with him through baseball and whatever.. having him unhappy is one thing, but Julia's reaction came across to me as maybe turning the character into one of those that I despise not because she's a character who serves a purpose as a bad guy, but because she's a character that just makes weird turns and at times is setup to frustrate the audience with moments like that.
 

Mike Frezon

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My turn. I watched this episode a couple of days late.
I just continue to be annoyed by anything in the Crosby/Jasmine relationship. So that's that. I guess Jasmine's passive-aggressive nature was handed down by her mother.
Max's puberty had its lighthearted moments. Nice to see the family dealing with cancer back to dealing with other family issues (That IS what happens in real life. Life goes on.).
As to the Drew/Amy story. I have to refrain from saying that this episode would be enough to keep me from ever watching the show again. As you all know, I haven't been enjoying the show nearly as much as the first couple of seasons, but the way this storyline was handled was almost enough to close the deal. Realistically, I'll keep watching--at least for a little while longer.
But to have all the options on the table in that particular situation and to resolve it--without parental involvement, without Drew expressing his wishes, without thought as to the potential of a child...is greatly disappointing to me, personally. As Matt points out about the way the show led us to that moment with the continued discussion of the responsible use of contraception...what about living up to the responsibilities of one's mistakes? Will the show now have these two children realize the even greater mistake that they just made? And that doesn't need to mean opting for an abortion...but to make that pivotal choice in their life...without daring to involve those people around them who love them. I would be so devastated as a parent to know that my own child had gotten into such a situation and decided not to come to me for some guidance. Sure, not all parent/child relationships are open to such closeness and support...but I don't think either of these families have exhibited enough dysfunction to allow such a decision as that made by Drew and Amy. And for Parenthood to play this decision as one that is so clean and neat is not only a disservice to the fans of the show who are looking for some interesting drama...but a disservice to those who might be led to think that such decisions can be so cleanly and easily made and carried out. All wrapped up neat and pretty in just a few minutes time. This has bothered me a lot.
Sure, to have Drew show up at his mother's door in tears leads us to believe that Drew would spill the beans to his mother--unless she continues to be so clueless (honestly, is she the world's worst mother?) about what's going on in her son's life. But what now would come of that? Would Sarah then convince Drew and Amy to share their decision with her parents? Would Sarah reach out to Amy's parents? Will the show even bother to wrap up such loose ends? Based on recent history, we certainly can't be sure of that.
I'm sure there will be some who will applaud the show for it's handling of the story. I'm just not in that group.
 

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I took the abortion(or did she???) To be the head of the "reason they hooked up to begin with..." She realized that "what it was" became way more than either could cope with. She is his "puppy love". He is definitely not hers. And yes, there are some states where 16+ don't need parental consent for abortion(aren't they 18 anyway?). And yes...abortion can be that cut and dried...and lonely. I saw no problem in way the storyline unfolded. Max' pubery talk(kitchen antics were great, by me) was priceless, "Dad, I'm not ready for that." Crosby/Jasmine...dysfunction loves company. I've been in relationships where there was only one good thing. The rest was "war" leading up to it... Julia. The trainwreck. This kid has no clue how "not to be abandoned". Calling the cops though? Really? Julia checking out completely is within reason. Sometimes you can't help them all, but you should at least speak your peace. Not once has she said..."I know I'll never be your mother. But, I want the job of being your mom." Then if he continues the path he chooses...she tried.
 

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Mike, I will be dropping the show, myself. Already removed the series recording. That's about all I have to say.
 

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Originally Posted by Mike Frezon
As to the Drew/Amy story. I have to refrain from saying that this episode would be enough to keep me from ever watching the show again. As you all know, I haven't been enjoying the show nearly as much as the first couple of seasons, but the way this storyline was handled was almost enough to close the deal. Realistically, I'll keep watching--at least for a little while longer.
But to have all the options on the table in that particular situation and to resolve it--without parental involvement, without Drew expressing his wishes, without thought as to the potential of a child...is greatly disappointing to me, personally. As Matt points out about the way the show led us to that moment with the continued discussion of the responsible use of contraception...what about living up to the responsibilities of one's mistakes? Will the show now have these two children realize the even greater mistake that they just made? And that doesn't need to mean opting for an abortion...but to make that pivotal choice in their life...without daring to involve those people around them who love them. I would be so devastated as a parent to know that my own child had gotten into such a situation and decided not to come to me for some guidance. Sure, not all parent/child relationships are open to such closeness and support...but I don't think either of these families have exhibited enough dysfunction to allow such a decision as that made by Drew and Amy. And for Parenthood to play this decision as one that is so clean and neat is not only a disservice to the fans of the show who are looking for some interesting drama...but a disservice to those who might be led to think that such decisions can be so cleanly and easily made and carried out. All wrapped up neat and pretty in just a few minutes time. This has bothered me a lot.
I get what you're saying, but that story line was at least realistic. That stuff happens all the time without the knowledge of any family/friends. Remember, Drew did console in Amber. Not that it made it okay for them to even have that story line in the first place.
When Sarah said "we have to stop making excuses to see eachother" I was half expecting (hoping) Marc to say, "I wasn't making an excuse to see you...I saw that you're son was having major issues at school...apparently you're too blind to notice..."
 

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Hey, unfortunately "oblivious parents" exist...true story... I was persuing Facebook a couple years ago and saw a friends son's page. Noticed he had "in a relationship with VVVVVVV". Clicked her page...and what do I see? "UUUUU is the love of my life, he rocks my socks." I called up my friend and said, "hey whatcha doing?" "We're having a cookout." "Cool I'll be there." We started to play some basketball and I called where father/son should play against me and "some neighbor kid." Whilst playing defense on "the son" I called out (within ear shot of dad) "so is this girl you've been rocking the sock of going to be here?" Dad gives me a "that's a weird question" look. The topic never came up again...that day. Fast forward 2 months... "You mean to tell me you knew my son was having sex with his girlfriend and you didn't tell me?"
 

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I do get that oblivious parents exist. But wow did this show go out of it's way to paint a storyline that is just a mess. I pointed out earlier that you had parents who were openly aware that he was sleeping with his girlfriend - they had an episode where a fight over it occurred. And they offered him birth control, talked to them about options, etc. etc. etc. and then you get this result. I have no idea what to make of it, but here's where this show is a mess on this point: If you favor birth control for teens, then this is basically says in a 1 for 1 case of the best possible controlled situation (birth control provided, instructed, etc.) the results are=it doesn't matter. If you are against birth control, the show doesn't solve your issue because as others point out, they slink off to the abortion clinic. Now, I get that this happens.. but like I said, I can listen to Ben Folds Five "Brick" and have a 100% idea of where this is going.. "on a very special episode' coming up, the girl is going to be depressed and conflicted because she has no one to talk to about this, because she locked everyone out. On the other hand, you're going to have a kid who blabs to his mother out of need. And then you're going to have the shocking and heartfelt reveal to her parents at which point they hate Drew. I would have been better with a ton of different results (parents take her to the clinic, girl doesn't get pregnant because birth control works, whatever). This all seemed way too cliche. The cliche answer is "kids get teen pregnant" This is the second one of these storylines on this show. I had hoped we were building toward something different in "responsible teens don't have issues".
 

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I hate that I'm defending this show and the horrible teen preggers story line, but... I think it would have been way more cliche for her to involve her parents and/or end up going through with the pregnancy. Plus, I think you guys are missing the best part about how they handled it - it just means the story line will be over that much sooner. I know there will be residual effects from it, but it's certainly better than 9 months of pregnancy and then who knows once the baby is born.
 

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And another teen pregnancy would open the door for the return of Julia's baby hunt adoption madness.
 

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Originally Posted by Cameron Yee
And another teen pregnancy would open the door for the return of Julia's baby hunt adoption madness.
Good point!
 

Steve Armbrust

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I thought this episode was extremely compelling. As an almost senior citizen myself, I loved the scene in the kitchen with Max asking about ejaculation, and especially Zeke's response. And as for Drew/Amy, although her getting pregnant after all that talk about safe sex does seem to send a bad message to teens about the effectiveness of birth control, I do admire the show's bravery in facing the emotions involved in getting an abortion. However, I'm not so sure she actually did get the abortion. Has any show ever been brave enough to show a sympathetic character choosing to have an abortion? I think doing so would cause an automatic abandoning of the show by a significant percentage of its audience. So as much as I think Amy having the abortion would be a brave choice for the show, I believe we'll learn that she didn't actually go through with it.
 

Mike Frezon

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Originally Posted by Steve Armbrust
And as for Drew/Amy, although her getting pregnant after all that talk about safe sex does seem to send a bad message to teens about the effectiveness of birth control, I do admire the show's bravery in facing the emotions involved in getting an abortion. However, I'm not so sure she actually did get the abortion. Has any show ever been brave enough to show a sympathetic character choosing to have an abortion? I think doing so would cause an automatic abandoning of the show by a significant percentage of its audience. So as much as I think Amy having the abortion would be a brave choice for the show, I believe we'll learn that she didn't actually go through with it.
The writers for this show have not been acquitting themselves well this year. But even I doubt they would stoop so low as to purposefully mislead the audience. All indications from the conversation between Drew & Amy after the car ride home and Drew showing up at his mother's door point to her ending the pregnancy.
 

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