Parenthood - Season 4 thread (1 Viewer)

[schan1269]

I don't see a problem with how Max acted after seeing the vending machine. Asperger's/Autism has an affect on feeling for OTHERS. Not feeling for oneself. Have you not watched Temple Grandin? Temple Grandin is much more severe than what Max is being presented with. Yet, anytime it was her, herself...acknowledging surprise/gratefulness/joy/sadness came just fine. In other words...watching the scene is funny. Here is a guy happy in himself. He couldn't care less about the joy being thrown his way.

 

[mattCR]

Originally Posted by schan1269
I don't see a problem with how Max acted after seeing the vending machine.
Asperger's/Autism has an affect on feeling for OTHERS. Not feeling for oneself.
Have you not watched Temple Grandin?
Temple Grandin is much more severe than what Max is being presented with. Yet, anytime it was her, herself...acknowledging surprise/gratefulness/joy/sadness came just fine.
In other words...watching the scene is funny.
Here is a guy happy in himself. He couldn't care less about the joy being thrown his way.

Schan-
I guess I have to say, as someone raising an autistic child, your right the reaction is how they would react. Realize, I didn't argue with the reaction. I was arguing with the advice. Max has been displayed in previous seasons as a multi-level autistic with issues regarding rage, outbursts and control issues. These are not the same as what Temple Grandin faced, as most girls who are classified autistic tend to be far more focused around OCD, dissociative etc. Max's issues with rage control have been a central highlight of several episodes.
As a result, most paras and those who handle those with autism would never, ever advise a strategy like what just occurred to Max. I'm just saying it's very different how this is being handled in order to help Max in comparison to many parents of autistic boys.

 

[Adam Lenhardt]

I'm really not sure what I'm supposed to feel about Crosby's storyline. The show seems to be making out like he's unreasonable. But he welcomed his mother-in-law into his home, he's bent over backwards to accommodate her, and his wife repays him by siding with her mother over Crosby. And then when things get heated, Renee has the nerve to throw in his face that things were different for the first five years of Jabar's life. He didn't abandon his son for that time, he was denied the knowledge that he even had a son. That's on Jasmine, and Renee is complicit in that. It's not the first time that the show has seemed to make out that Crosby is somehow to blame for missing those first years, and it infuriates me every time. He's far from a perfect character, but that's a wrong that can never be righted. And in the mean time, Renee has a right to her opinion, but she doesn't get a veto.

The scene with Crosby and Julia outside the restaurant - this is why I keep watching. It was a terrific scene. Best scene (for me) in many many episodes (since a few of the early cancer scenes).

It was a very good scene. One of the things the first couple seasons was good about was mixing and matching different pairings of characters within the extended families. Since the recording studio, they nuclear families have pretty much retreated into their isolated storylines with the studio as connective tissue for Adam and Crosby but not much else. Crosby was exactly the right person to talk to Julia at that moment.

I was half expecting Kristina to pull her hat off if she didn't get her way on the vending machines and play the cancer card.

That would have actually been more interesting to me as an audience member, because it would have meant that Kristina put her mama bear instincts above her principles. Not at the end, though. I would have liked to see her try to play the cancer card, have that crash and burn, and then do the hard work of making a convincing argument.

The love triangle storyline is so awkward. It feels like it's being played out by 3rd graders.

I agree. At this point, I'd like a piano to fall out of the sky and kill either Mark or Hank. I'd prefer Mark, because I think there's some mileage left in the Hank storyline while the Mark storyline is beyond played out, but at this point I'd be happy with either. I'm so sick of the endless juvenile circles. I did like Hank's speech to Sarah to basically just piss or get off the pot.

 

[Derek Miner]

I'm really not sure what I'm supposed to feel about Crosby's storyline. The show seems to be making out like he's unreasonable. But he welcomed his mother-in-law into his home, he's bent over backwards to accommodate her, and his wife repays him by siding with her mother over Crosby. And then when things get heated, Renee has the nerve to throw in his face that things were different for the first five years of Jabar's life. He didn't abandon his son for that time, he was denied the knowledge that he even had a son. That's on Jasmine, and Renee is complicit in that. It's not the first time that the show has seemed to make out that Crosby is somehow to blame for missing those first years, and it infuriates me every time. He's far from a perfect character, but that's a wrong that can never be righted. And in the mean time, Renee has a right to her opinion, but she doesn't get a veto.

I am really interested in the storyline with Crosby and Renee. So far, my feeling hasn't been that the show is trying to once again imply that Crosby is to blame for missing out on Jabbar's early years. It's only Renee dragging it out as a weapon to retailiate for hurt feelings. Crosby did make a stupid mistake in this situation. Instead of sticking with his gut feeling, he was seduced into thinking that he could play superhero and help Renee with no real sacrifice on his part. He loved having the appearance of being the helpful family man, but he never committed to the responsibility. So his resentment of this situation keeps surfacing. Now everyone involved is being a bit childish and selfish as a defensive mechanism. Does that make Renee's intrusion into the family's life right? Not at all - I seriously believe parents should assert their rights to parent the way they want to. Crosby and Jasmine may see eye-to-eye about parenting their child, but they don't have the same background in dealing with their extended families. The Bravermans seem to work to empower each other where Jasmine's family seems to gain strength from being unified against the cruelty of the outside world. Crosby's assesment of Jasmine not being willing to stand up to her mother is spot-on, but the way he brought it up won't land with her in a meaningful way. It came off as an off-hand petty insult. But Crosby is afraid of being assertive unless he has Jasmine to back him up. These dangerous but genuine and difficult miscommunications make for the kind of drama I appreciate from a TV show.

 

[Mike Frezon]

Unexpecting -- NY Post

 

[Adam Lenhardt]

I can just hear you going, "Wrong!" with just about every Katims quote in that article, Mike! It's interesting that where he thinks the show is at is so different from where most of us here think the show is at. I don't think he's aware that there's even a problem.

 

[Mike Frezon]

 

[mattCR]

Originally Posted by Adam Lenhardt
I can just hear you going, "Wrong!" with just about every Katims quote in that article, Mike! It's interesting that where he thinks the show is at is so different from where most of us here think the show is at. I don't think he's aware that there's even a problem.

That's my biggest problem ;(

 

[Mike Frezon]

Nice cameo appearance tonight by Rose Abdoo (who played Gypsy the car mechanic on The Gilmore Girls). She played the cancer patient who relapsed. If I'm Crosby, I'd be non-stop jig dancing when Renee announces she's moving out. Of course, you all know I never understand why the guy married Jasmine. He doesn't deserve the bitchiness Jasmine and her mother brings into his life...except that he decided to marry them both. And, I'm sorry, but as soon as Jasmine opened her yap about how Renee helped raise Jabar for the first five years of his life, I'd have gotten up and walked away and left Jasmine sitting at the table holding the "big news" all for herself. To think that Crosby apologized to Renee goes against every fiber of my being. While some may say that such decision are made for the greater good, Renee was without-a-doubt in the wrong for insinuating into their parenting practices and Crosby was right to tell her so and Jasmine did, indeed, commit a great sin by caving to her mother's side during the confrontation. Sarah goes to Mark's classroom during a school day to break the news she's going to try and make it work with Hank? Very thoughtful of her. I guess he should be grateful she didn't do it in front of a room full of students. As wonderful the scene was when Amber rejected Ryan outside Zeek & Camille's house at Christmas...the opposite was true of the scene tonight in which Amber went to Ryan's apartment. Another metaphoric homerun that Victor all-the-sudden feels loved and can't wait to be adopted by Julia & Joel. Another nice full-cast moment with the judge at Victor's adoption ceremony. And since we are likely all rooting for Kristine to beat the cancer...it was a rather easy decision, I suppose, by the writers to make her cancer-free to end the season (maybe the series?).

 

[Citizen87645]

Well, the show's broader strokes are hitting a chord with a wider audience, so I think we'll probably see the show renewed for next season.

 

[Mike Frezon]

Originally Posted by Cameron Yee
Well, the show's broader strokes are hitting a chord with a wider audience, so I think we'll probably see the show renewed for next season.

Hah! Joe Six-Pack can have it!

 

[Greg_S_H]

Hah!  Joe Six-Pack can have it! 

I'm two weeks Parenthood-free, Mike. Come on in, the water's fine.

 

[David Weicker]

After the high-point of last week's Crosby-Julia scene, this was just a so-so episode. Nothing really special, and only a few bad scenes I agree that the Amber-Ryan scene in front of his apartment was bad. I've really thought that Mae Whitman has turned in some pretty great performances, so I don't know if it was the script or her acting, but IMO, it was a very badly performed speech/scene. I also wondered about Sarah's timing of her announcement to Mark. Then again, she has never, ever thought about proper, considerate timing. Even in the first season, she would burst in on Julia or Adam during work hours, interrupting business meetings. As for the Sarah-Hank part, there were two things I questioned. Obviously, leaving it open ended doesn't fit with the current trend the show has gone this year. The second is the 'splitting up' of the conversation. He tells her he's moving during dinner, and then waits until the next day to ask her to come with him? It felt oddly plotted. The scene at the Chemo was very well done. And even though it was one of the 'home-runs' we've been criticizing, I did like Victor asking Sydney to come to the ceremony. The matter-of-fact way it was done worked for me. David

 

[mattCR]

And, I'm sorry, but as soon as Jasmine opened her yap about how Renee helped raise Jabar for the first five years of his life, I'd have gotten up and walked away and left Jasmine sitting at the table holding the "big news" all for herself. To think that Crosby apologized to Renee goes against every fiber of my being. While some may say that such decision are made for the greater good, Renee was without-a-doubt in the wrong for insinuating into their parenting practices and Crosby was right to tell her so and Jasmine did, indeed, commit a great sin by caving to her mother's side during the confrontation.

Yeah, I had that thought too. Sure, she raised my kid while I was shut out of knowing he existed. Well, that one is on me.
I tend to agree with the above for the most part. So so ep. Nothing great. Nothing really terrible.

 

[Citizen87645]

All those threads getting tied off, some working better than others. Amber and Ryan's was probably second-worst. His emotional outpouring at her apartment was something that could be explained by all the things he's going through, but for her to do the same right back seemed off. Sarah's answer to Mark was definitely the weakest. "I can never tell you..." why the writers decided to concoct this horrible love triangle story for my character? Sarah decides to make it work with Hank, but she provides no reason to Mark...and viewers don't get much more either. As problematic as Drew and Amy's subplot has been, their scene seemed right. Their relationship is not going to recover from what happened and they both know it and accept it. It's sad, but it's the most adult the two of them have acted. The cancer and adoption storylines played out as expected, though Sydney's telling it like it is probably had more emotional honesty about the situation than anything that followed. Finally, Jasmine and Crosby. Let's just say I'm rooting for Crosby.

 

[ScottH]

Only one word characterizes this latest episode...SAPPY. Sure seemed like a series finale to me. We can only hope...

 

[Patrick Sun]

As far as Sarah goes, wasn't it good to see Hank choose parenthood over his own romantic needs?

 

[David Weicker]

As far as Sarah goes, wasn't it good to see Hank choose parenthood over his own romantic needs?

Well, you know, for men of a certain age, needs are short-lived

 

[Patrick Sun]

I see what you did there...

 

[Adam Lenhardt]

Nice cameo appearance tonight by Rose Abdoo (who played Gypsy the car mechanic on The Gilmore Girls).  She played the cancer patient who relapsed.

She's also recurring on Amy Sherman-Palladino's current show, "Bunheads", as one of the townspeople. She gets a lot of the best quips.

If I'm Crosby, I'd be non-stop jig dancing when Renee announces she's moving out.  Of course, you all know I never understand why the guy married Jasmine.  He doesn't deserve the bitchiness Jasmine and her mother brings into his life...except that he decided to marry them both.

That about sums it up. I'd be more upset if Crosby hadn't know what he was getting into. Jasmine has been pretty consistently portrayed since the pilot. Crosby's role in her life was always going to be somewhat conditional. If I were in his shoes, there's no way I would have married Jasmine given what she did with Jabar. But Crosby's made his bed, and now he has to lie in it.

And, I'm sorry, but as soon as Jasmine opened her yap about how Renee helped raise Jabar for the first five years of his life, I'd have gotten up and walked away and left Jasmine sitting at the table holding the "big news" all for herself.  To think that Crosby apologized to Renee goes against every fiber of my being.  While some may say that such decision are made for the greater good, Renee was without-a-doubt in the wrong for insinuating into their parenting practices and Crosby was right to tell her so and Jasmine did, indeed, commit a great sin by caving to her mother's side during the confrontation.

I agree with all of this. I also think that Crosby, in that moment of happiness of learning he was going to be a daddy, was willing to let all of that slide. It doesn't make it right, but it does seem in keeping with his character. For him, it's a chance to experience what he missed out on with Jabar. And in that moment, he was willing to forget WHY he missed out on it with Jabar. I can't imagine that this thread won't keep coming up again and again, though. Eventually, Jasmine and Renee's willingness to use her selfish and destructive act as a noose around Crosby's neck is going to wear too far.

Sarah goes to Mark's classroom during a school day to break the news she's going to try and make it work with Hank?  Very thoughtful of her.  I guess he should be grateful she didn't do it in front of a room full of students.

Hah! I was thinking that she had the same mentality as bosses that take the employees they're about to fire out to a nice restaurant for lunch: if you do it in public, there's less likely to be a scene. If Mark wants long-term happiness, he needs to find a new "the one" and stay the hell away from Sarah Braverman.

As wonderful the scene was when Amber rejected Ryan outside Zeek & Camille's house at Christmas...the opposite was true of the scene tonight in which Amber went to Ryan's apartment.

That was actually one of the few bright spots of the episode for me. She was telling him, flat out: you've made strides to become the kind of man I can commit myself to, so I'm willing to give this another try. But love isn't just a feeling, it's a responsibility, and for this to work long term, I need you to be responsible for my love, to be the kind of man that deserves my love, because I won't accept anything less. 

Another metaphoric homerun that Victor all-the-sudden feels loved and can't wait to be adopted by Julia & Joel.  Another nice full-cast moment with the judge at Victor's adoption ceremony.

I really liked the adoption scene, but I completely agree that the build up was bordering on nonsensical. That kind of transition has to be earned. The show didn't earn it.

As for the Sarah-Hank part, there were two things I questioned. Obviously, leaving it open ended doesn't fit with the current trend the show has gone this year. The second is the 'splitting up' of the conversation. He tells her he's moving during dinner, and then waits until the next day to ask her to come with him? It felt oddly plotted.

It made sense to me. The conversation where he broke the news to Sarah was about giving her the space to deal with that process it. He knew he was delivering bad news, and that conversation had to be about her reaction to it. Once she'd had time to accept that he wasn't expecting her to come with him, that's when he made the offer. It was the total opposite of so many men in her life, and even his own past track record with her. All of the men in her life have depended on her to fill the holes, made her responsible for their happiness. By moving to Wisconsin, even if it meant losing Sarah, Hank was taking responsibility for his own happiness. He knew he couldn't feel complete if he wasn't a part of his daughter's life. He loves Sarah, but his daughter has to come first. He gives it to Sarah straight, lets her know he has to do this regardless of her decision, and then lets her know that he sure would love her to be a part of the new life he's building. For once, Sarah was presented with a choice, not a plea or a demand. In other words, Hank is an adult.

And even though it was one of the 'home-runs' we've been criticizing, I did like Victor asking Sydney to come to the ceremony. The matter-of-fact way it was done worked for me.

I liked that scene too. If the build up over the course of the whole arc had been better handled, I would have been able to invest some emotion into it.

As problematic as Drew and Amy's subplot has been, their scene seemed right. Their relationship is not going to recover from what happened and they both know it and accept it. It's sad, but it's the most adult the two of them have acted.

I thought that was the best scene in the episode. Just beautifully handled. They didn't have them carrying on like nothing happened. It's obvious that this huge, crushing unspoken thing has created a chasm between them that can never be bridged, if for no other reason than the abortion robbed them of the carefree frivolity that drove their teenage fling. The consequences and the fall out weigh too heavily. And yet, they don't hate each other. They're not cold, or distant. They accept that this aborted pregnancy has sent them off on different paths, if they weren't headed off on different paths already. They know it's over, but have the intimacy of two people whose lives have been shaped by the same event that has cleaved their lives into "before" and "after". They share their achievements, and they're happy for each other, genuinely so. And Skyler Day is just fantastic. She conveys in her body language and her face that Amy's trying desperately to be okay and move past this decision she's made, but the light is still a ways distant down the tunnel. And when she looks at Drew, you see something that wasn't there before, when he was the guy who adored her and she was the girl who was touched by his adoration. You see intense gratitude, and a bit of wonder -- the sort of wonder that comes when someone proves themselves to be so much more than you thought they could be. When she was at the most desperate she's been in her entire life, he was exactly who she needed him to be. When most guys would have abandoned her, or pressured her, or made her feel like a monster, he was her friend -- and his friendship was in spite of the anguish her decision was causing him. Amy will remember that until the day that she dies, and her future relationships will be shaped by that. Drew may not have been her "one", but he'll be the yardstick she measures all future "ones" against. In that scene, you can tell that she appreciates just how lucky she was to have Drew in her life. It moved me, in a way that nothing else did in this episode.

As far as Sarah goes, wasn't it good to see Hank choose parenthood over his own romantic needs?

Yes!