One thing that bothers me about this show is how often people from his personal life come into Adam's office to discuss personal issues. Maybe my experience in the corporate world differs from others, but that just isn't realistic to me. Even Sarah barging in while being an employee there is a little over-dramatic.
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Parenthood - Season 2 thread (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter Greg_S_H
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Adam Lenhardt
Senior HTF Member
Most heartbreaking moment tonight: Adam watching Joel's natural back and forth with Sidney and then seeing Max's complete indifference to the outside world.
Most heartwarming moment tonight: Max and Adam's treasurer conversation in the car at the end. The young actor who plays Max did a terrific job with that one moment where he closes his video game, as he realizes he's violated a social norm but can't quite get his head around what it is and doesn't quite know how to address it. You can see him piecing together a strategy, which leads to the question about being treasurer. It's an imperfect approach, but the mere fact that he demonstratively cared enough to take the risk is what Adam needed. And yet, after a few back and forths, Max is back to monologuing about his intense interest in pirates. I think that's important, too. There can't be a magic wand waved; Adam and Max are never going to have a normal father/son relationship. But that just makes the limited avenues of connection that do develop all the more important. It's easy to look at Max as an automaton with occasional meltdowns, but that car ride captured remarkable vulnerability. He tried something new, outside his comfort zone, without being bribed, and wasn't rejected for it.
Most heartwarming moment tonight: Max and Adam's treasurer conversation in the car at the end. The young actor who plays Max did a terrific job with that one moment where he closes his video game, as he realizes he's violated a social norm but can't quite get his head around what it is and doesn't quite know how to address it. You can see him piecing together a strategy, which leads to the question about being treasurer. It's an imperfect approach, but the mere fact that he demonstratively cared enough to take the risk is what Adam needed. And yet, after a few back and forths, Max is back to monologuing about his intense interest in pirates. I think that's important, too. There can't be a magic wand waved; Adam and Max are never going to have a normal father/son relationship. But that just makes the limited avenues of connection that do develop all the more important. It's easy to look at Max as an automaton with occasional meltdowns, but that car ride captured remarkable vulnerability. He tried something new, outside his comfort zone, without being bribed, and wasn't rejected for it.
I think I'm a week behind, as Adam's comments just above no sense to me [/url]
If Crosby was willing (big mistake) to pick up roots and move to NY to be closer to Jasmine & Jabar...why not take Jabar and go on the European tour with Jasmine and try to make things work? It would have been a good experience for all three.
[/quote]
If Crosby was willing (big mistake) to pick up roots and move to NY to be closer to Jasmine & Jabar...why not take Jabar and go on the European tour with Jasmine and try to make things work? It would have been a good experience for all three.
[/quote]
Obviously, all credit goes to Minka Kelly. That girl is a genius!
I was torn on the final scene with Max. As heart-tugging as it was, it seemed a little too...convenient. A little too neat.
I thought Max basically acted more like a petulant teenager called out for being rude so he puts away his hand-held game and appeases dear old dad by engaging in some forced discussion. I actually wondered how MattCR was reacting as that played out.
I also sat, during last night's episode, and thought they tremendously over-used their device of having the players talk over each other. I wasn't sure if I was being overly sensitive to it last night for some reason or if they went a little overboard...but it especially seemed during the scenes with Lauren Graham and Mae Whitman that there was no "normal" dialogue but everything was being communicated at the same time. The reactions were too quick--constantly--always firing--never letting up. A little tiring.
It's a device which can be very effective when used properly...but, for some reason, I thought it was way overdone last night.
I was torn on the final scene with Max. As heart-tugging as it was, it seemed a little too...convenient. A little too neat.
I thought Max basically acted more like a petulant teenager called out for being rude so he puts away his hand-held game and appeases dear old dad by engaging in some forced discussion. I actually wondered how MattCR was reacting as that played out.
I also sat, during last night's episode, and thought they tremendously over-used their device of having the players talk over each other. I wasn't sure if I was being overly sensitive to it last night for some reason or if they went a little overboard...but it especially seemed during the scenes with Lauren Graham and Mae Whitman that there was no "normal" dialogue but everything was being communicated at the same time. The reactions were too quick--constantly--always firing--never letting up. A little tiring.
It's a device which can be very effective when used properly...but, for some reason, I thought it was way overdone last night.
I do think they changed the concept because in the first season it did seem as though he was the founder and/or principle at a small shoe company, and this year he's I'm not sure what he is at the company... a manager of sorts?
In regards to the events on last night show:
The bid to show off to your kid by proving who can be the "most fun" mom is likely to backfire bad at somepoint.
I felt as though Joel caved way too early. Maybe it's juts me, but there would have been a real discussion that would have not ended in a few minutes over the realities of a second kid and why telling others was a very bad idea.
In regards to Max:
I tend to agree. I thought the moment in the car was too "rewarding". In almost all cases in the real world, if Adam had taken the response that he did, that's not the reaction you get. They've shown this in other episodes, where the kid tends to "wall off" or "go quiet" when confronted. That's normal. The inability to really handle the social situation isn't made better by putting it "on the spot". That having been said, as a matter of drama, I got why they did it. And the moment where he saw Joel playing with his daughter is a difficult one. I think for parents of any child with any disability, there is a short moment where you think "what if this was different".
Crosby's storyline is the one that interested me most.. he bit his tongue at a moment where I couldn't, and I will say this in spoilers because there is no offense meant here, and I do not want to start a religious argument (and this should not, but..)
It is clear from the show that the Bravermans are not a religious family. And Crosby explains that tonight with his Baseball field was like Church to us. When the grandmother snaps back at him that "it's ridiculous", it took a big man to bite his tongue. But I didn't like that he "tagged along" to pacify her. Because, if that's how he was raised, then it would have been very hard in his gut to not fire back "what makes what I do ridiculous and what you do right?" Or if he were an atheist, the temptation to fire back something like "I can see the angles on the field instead of talking to imaginary flying people". I'm not saying that wouldn't have alienated part of the audience, but I was really surprised at him backing down after having his "tradition" of sorts openly ridiculed.
At a certain point, Crosby has to do the right thing. Despite the niceness between his ex and him, he needs to go to the courthouse and get his rights resolved, as well as do the right thing and commit to level of child support. Because the longer this goes on without that, the more he's hanging himself out there to be setup for drama later.
In regards to the events on last night show:
The bid to show off to your kid by proving who can be the "most fun" mom is likely to backfire bad at somepoint.
I felt as though Joel caved way too early. Maybe it's juts me, but there would have been a real discussion that would have not ended in a few minutes over the realities of a second kid and why telling others was a very bad idea.
In regards to Max:
I tend to agree. I thought the moment in the car was too "rewarding". In almost all cases in the real world, if Adam had taken the response that he did, that's not the reaction you get. They've shown this in other episodes, where the kid tends to "wall off" or "go quiet" when confronted. That's normal. The inability to really handle the social situation isn't made better by putting it "on the spot". That having been said, as a matter of drama, I got why they did it. And the moment where he saw Joel playing with his daughter is a difficult one. I think for parents of any child with any disability, there is a short moment where you think "what if this was different".
Crosby's storyline is the one that interested me most.. he bit his tongue at a moment where I couldn't, and I will say this in spoilers because there is no offense meant here, and I do not want to start a religious argument (and this should not, but..)
It is clear from the show that the Bravermans are not a religious family. And Crosby explains that tonight with his Baseball field was like Church to us. When the grandmother snaps back at him that "it's ridiculous", it took a big man to bite his tongue. But I didn't like that he "tagged along" to pacify her. Because, if that's how he was raised, then it would have been very hard in his gut to not fire back "what makes what I do ridiculous and what you do right?" Or if he were an atheist, the temptation to fire back something like "I can see the angles on the field instead of talking to imaginary flying people". I'm not saying that wouldn't have alienated part of the audience, but I was really surprised at him backing down after having his "tradition" of sorts openly ridiculed.
At a certain point, Crosby has to do the right thing. Despite the niceness between his ex and him, he needs to go to the courthouse and get his rights resolved, as well as do the right thing and commit to level of child support. Because the longer this goes on without that, the more he's hanging himself out there to be setup for drama later.
The Bravermen men (including in-laws) sure do come off like a wussy lot. That's a bit surprising considering the personality of patriarch Zeke.
The whole Joel/Julia situation was ridiculous in that all they needed to do was discuss it and make a decision (admittedly not an easy decision for anyone). But all the faux drama was created simply because she would bring up the topic as she would be running out the door and he would say, "We need to talk about it." Next thing you know they're yelling at each other because they're not on the same page...because they still haven't talked about it. I really didn't understand Joel's turnaround on that issue (leading to his inclusion in the wussy category).
And, as I always say...don't get me started on Crosby. He is mishandling this situation so badly I don't know where to begin. I refuse to believe there is not a parent or sibling of his that wouldn't be advising him to get his situation with Jabar straight.
The Bravermen women are a strong bunch. I guess it's proof that Camille is the parent who really wore the pants in the family.
As I watch this show I really empathize with the character of Adam and all the issues he constantly has to deal with amongst all the families.
The whole Joel/Julia situation was ridiculous in that all they needed to do was discuss it and make a decision (admittedly not an easy decision for anyone). But all the faux drama was created simply because she would bring up the topic as she would be running out the door and he would say, "We need to talk about it." Next thing you know they're yelling at each other because they're not on the same page...because they still haven't talked about it. I really didn't understand Joel's turnaround on that issue (leading to his inclusion in the wussy category).
And, as I always say...don't get me started on Crosby. He is mishandling this situation so badly I don't know where to begin. I refuse to believe there is not a parent or sibling of his that wouldn't be advising him to get his situation with Jabar straight.
The Bravermen women are a strong bunch. I guess it's proof that Camille is the parent who really wore the pants in the family.
As I watch this show I really empathize with the character of Adam and all the issues he constantly has to deal with amongst all the families.
Adam Lenhardt
Senior HTF Member
Originally Posted by Mike Frezon
I was torn on the final scene with Max. As heart-tugging as it was, it seemed a little too...convenient. A little too neat.
There's no doubt it was a dramatic device; in the real world such a breakthrough moment wouldn't be so neatly aligned with the father's storyline for this week. But I think the scene works because it doesn't oversell it; Adam basically gets a question from Max, and then Max is back to monologuing again. We're not going to suddenly see a different Max from what we've seen so far starting next week, but we did get a glimpse of something unexpected from his character. And that's a good thing for a show that doesn't want to grow stale.
This was done to reflect their mutual discomfort. Sarah knows Amber has been avoiding bringing her friend around because she's embarassed of Sarah and how they live. Amber's terrified that her mother is going to humiliate her and damage a friendship that makes her really happy. Amber's never had a normal, functional suburban friendship like this before, and they both know it. Sarah's terrified that she's going to lose Amber, and Amber's really self-conscious about being around this girl's family that she maybe doesn't feel good enough for. On top of all that, there's the normal agony of being a teenager and having your mom tag along with you and your friends.
Judging by the phone conversation with the customer, it sounds like he may be a v.p. for sales or something. He's definitely high enough up that he can order other departments around, except when Gordon's around. At the same time, he seems to have some role dealing with sales to retailers.
Joel pretty much always caves way too early. I'm not sure Julia would have married a guy who didn't. My guess is that he was doing a lot of thinking about a second kid during the time he wasn't speaking to Julia. My guess is that he also felt a bit boxed in by her already telling Adam about it. Their marriage isn't especially healthy, so I'm not sure it's the right time for them to bring another kid in the world. But maybe Joel things a second kid will be a chance to reset the dynamic in his marriage. If so, good luck.
I bet if the confrontation had occurred with other people around, Adam wouldn't have gotten the reaction he got.
It's interesting you say that, because I don't think Crosby did back down when she called baseball riddiculous. I thought the doorway conversation was the first really assertive moment Crosby's had this season, and even though Jasmine's mother was insulted, she obviously got the point, because Crosby got baseball with his son by the end of the episode and she was making a real effort to understand that.
At a certain point, Crosby has to do the right thing. Despite the niceness between his ex and him, he needs to go to the courthouse and get his rights resolved, as well as do the right thing and commit to level of child support. Because the longer this goes on without that, the more he's hanging himself out there to be setup for drama later.
Absolutely. But first he has to get a place with room for Jabar. If he contests custody living in a two room houseboat without a bed for his kid and no ability to provide a stable environment, he'll get visitation rights and that's it. Many courts are already biased toward the mother in custody disputes, and while there are mitigating circumstances in this case, Crosby needs to commit to a dad lifestyle if he wants to share custody. While Jasmine dumping Jabar on her mother and running across Europe won't win her any brownie points in front of the judge (nor will concealing Jabar's existence from Crosby all of those years), if I were sitting on the bench, I'd still consider her the more benefitial environment for Jabar.
I think what we're seeing now is representative of the fact that Zeek is still very much in the doghouse. I think the fact that he wore the pants solo for so many years is a big part of why so much resentment built up in their relationship. He essentially had to turn over the pants in order to save his marriage.
You're seeing the same sort of resentment that built up in Camille slowly over Zeek build up more rapidly in Crosby. He's trying very hard not to make waves so as to avoid risk to what he has currently with Jabar. But at some point he's going to have to realize that the vision Jasmine and her mother have for his role as a father is very different that his vision for his role as a father. If he wants to raise his son instead of merely hang out with him, something's going to have to give.
The talking-over-each-other device was used in other places,too. I merely cited the Sarah/Amber scenes as the most egregious example. I totally get what they are trying to do. The family get-together around the baseball game was another.
I just think they are over-doing it. It is losing it's effectiveness and becoming an annoyance (at least to me).
Re: Max. I didn't see the ensuing pirate discussion as monologuing on his part...but continuing on the too-good-to-be-true conversation with his father as best he could at his developmental stage. As Adam got his questions from Max and gave his answers, he then asked Max what he liked about pirates and Max started to give his answers. It was quite a moment for Adam (but, to me, it seemed to veer from the realistic portrayal that we have been used to with the show).
I just think they are over-doing it. It is losing it's effectiveness and becoming an annoyance (at least to me).
Re: Max. I didn't see the ensuing pirate discussion as monologuing on his part...but continuing on the too-good-to-be-true conversation with his father as best he could at his developmental stage. As Adam got his questions from Max and gave his answers, he then asked Max what he liked about pirates and Max started to give his answers. It was quite a moment for Adam (but, to me, it seemed to veer from the realistic portrayal that we have been used to with the show).
Greg_S_H
Senior HTF Member
Double post
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- May 9, 2002
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- 13,058
- Real Name
- Cameron Yee
Gilmore Girls fans should have recognized Holly, played by Vanessa Marano, who played
Luke's daughter in Gilmore Girls.
The interesting thing is I thought she looked a lot like the girl from Sarah Silverman Program and the short lived Back to You. That girl is Laura Marano, her younger sister!
Luke's daughter in Gilmore Girls.
The interesting thing is I thought she looked a lot like the girl from Sarah Silverman Program and the short lived Back to You. That girl is Laura Marano, her younger sister!
Greg_S_H
Senior HTF Member
When Adam and Kristina were eating the wedge of cake last night, they showed the main part of the cake and it looked like a pie chart with about 80% left. Get it? They were sharing the 20%, which shows that Kristina's divorce fears will not be realized!
Or, am I reading too much into this?
Or, am I reading too much into this?
Adam Lenhardt
Senior HTF Member
Great hour of television. I wasn't ready for it to end. I hope the ratings rebound, because it's a terrific hour week after week. In the lunch scene with Haddie and Amber, I saw more of Kristina in Haddie than I've ever noticed before. Amazing parent/child casting on this show.
It was a pleasant surprise to learn that Renee is in Crosby's corner, even if she doesn't think he's ready to be a full time dad yet. She was able to articulate what we were all feeling about this situation, and it's okay because she would have been the one most likely to be offended if anyone else articulated it. Now Jasmine's back, and Crosby's hand is forced. At the same time, sparks are flying with Gaby, who he doesn't currently resent.
Nice catch!
It was a pleasant surprise to learn that Renee is in Crosby's corner, even if she doesn't think he's ready to be a full time dad yet. She was able to articulate what we were all feeling about this situation, and it's okay because she would have been the one most likely to be offended if anyone else articulated it. Now Jasmine's back, and Crosby's hand is forced. At the same time, sparks are flying with Gaby, who he doesn't currently resent.
Nice catch!
- Joined
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I'm not sure why I never made the connection the two were related. I was certainly aware of both of them at the time they were both recurring characters in different shows.
Greg_S_H
Senior HTF Member
Sucks that they only played a few seconds of the Chet Baker tune. Good episode.
The first scene with Kristina in the support group, where the one mother explains her daily worries about "I can't get out" wow.. those kind of things hit home.
I'm not at all sold on some of the other storylines, which seem to be moving in directions that I find far less interesting. But that storyline, and the one with the attorney/etc. are good enough to carry the show for me.
I'm not at all sold on some of the other storylines, which seem to be moving in directions that I find far less interesting. But that storyline, and the one with the attorney/etc. are good enough to carry the show for me.
Zeek (why does he spell it like that) sure rebounded in tonight's episode. Solid advice to Adam on why he's attending the therapy sessions, really embracing Camille's desire to do the ballroom dancing, NOT blowing up when she pulls the plug on the dancing sessions, and a great comedic turn as he discovers the joy of dancing with Tony!
HATED Julia's explanation to Sydney of why she should sleep in her own bed. Awful parenting. Sydney's response was also unrealistically "grown-up.".
I still get worked up with Crosby & Jasmine. They are not good for each other.
Adam had no choice but to go to the sessions with Christina. NoT attending would have allowed Max's Aspergers to further become a wedge between them. They each would have become resentful of the other's position on the therapy and then felt as if Max was somehow to blame. Good call to go.
The best scenes (the ones which I think probably speak to a lot of viewers) are those where the extended family all gather together for a meal or event...such as tonight's scene where they brain-stormed an activity for Zeek and Camille. It's an idealistic image of family that I think a lot of us would like to have in our lives.
==========================
I completely did not pick up on the actress who played Drew's "interest" being Luke Dane's daughter. AND...I am currently watching Season 7 of Gilmore Girls. Crazy that they cast her to be working on a science fair project (which was April's introduction on GG).
HATED Julia's explanation to Sydney of why she should sleep in her own bed. Awful parenting. Sydney's response was also unrealistically "grown-up.".
I still get worked up with Crosby & Jasmine. They are not good for each other.
Adam had no choice but to go to the sessions with Christina. NoT attending would have allowed Max's Aspergers to further become a wedge between them. They each would have become resentful of the other's position on the therapy and then felt as if Max was somehow to blame. Good call to go.
The best scenes (the ones which I think probably speak to a lot of viewers) are those where the extended family all gather together for a meal or event...such as tonight's scene where they brain-stormed an activity for Zeek and Camille. It's an idealistic image of family that I think a lot of us would like to have in our lives.
==========================
I completely did not pick up on the actress who played Drew's "interest" being Luke Dane's daughter. AND...I am currently watching Season 7 of Gilmore Girls. Crazy that they cast her to be working on a science fair project (which was April's introduction on GG).
Adam Lenhardt
Senior HTF Member
Great Amber episode tonight. Her rich friend is right; she does have a lovely voice. The whole episode was a great showcase both of how much Amber's grown over the course of the show and the side we didn't get to see much of the first season. She's grown in the sense that she really is invested in trying to bring up her GPA and being upfront and adult about her concerns. But my guess is that she would have always felt guilty wasting $40 like that, knowing how tight things are financially. Mae Whitman does such a great job playing Amber, and I've missed seeing her showcased like she was tonight.
It was also a great Adam episode. The Bravermans have certain defects, and showing emotion is one of them. Adam thought the support group was stupid because he's never had a proper outlet to vent in a constructive way. He's used to being the emotional toxic waste dump for the rest of the family, and his own pent up emotion (at least that which he can't swallow down) gets dumped all onto Kristina or one of the other family members in a not so constructive way. Zeek is a role model for him, which explains the way he deals with his motion. But seeing Zeek straining to evolve and seeing the consequences of Zeek not evolving before also provides a role model for him. Even though Zeek doesn't get the therapy, it is making a difference, because before he wouldn't have been able to articulate his motivation the way he did. And while walking into the meeting was a gesture to Kristina in and of itself, the real gesture was leading with the thing that was bothering him right then, and the thing that underlies most of what else bothers him. You could tell that many of the other parents in the circle were put off by his admission that they hadn't told Max yet, and that made it all the braver.
Sarah's playing with fire kissing the boss. She did a great job on her own merits at the trade show, and then she undermined it by allowing Gordon to sexualize her. It also creates the implication that her continued employment on some level is reliant on returning his advances. It means pursuing a relationship with Mike is especially perilous, since both of their jobs could be affected. Gordon is bad news for all involved.
It was also a great Adam episode. The Bravermans have certain defects, and showing emotion is one of them. Adam thought the support group was stupid because he's never had a proper outlet to vent in a constructive way. He's used to being the emotional toxic waste dump for the rest of the family, and his own pent up emotion (at least that which he can't swallow down) gets dumped all onto Kristina or one of the other family members in a not so constructive way. Zeek is a role model for him, which explains the way he deals with his motion. But seeing Zeek straining to evolve and seeing the consequences of Zeek not evolving before also provides a role model for him. Even though Zeek doesn't get the therapy, it is making a difference, because before he wouldn't have been able to articulate his motivation the way he did. And while walking into the meeting was a gesture to Kristina in and of itself, the real gesture was leading with the thing that was bothering him right then, and the thing that underlies most of what else bothers him. You could tell that many of the other parents in the circle were put off by his admission that they hadn't told Max yet, and that made it all the braver.
Sarah's playing with fire kissing the boss. She did a great job on her own merits at the trade show, and then she undermined it by allowing Gordon to sexualize her. It also creates the implication that her continued employment on some level is reliant on returning his advances. It means pursuing a relationship with Mike is especially perilous, since both of their jobs could be affected. Gordon is bad news for all involved.
Great minds were at work at the very same time last night, Adam!
I had just watched this week's episode off the DVR when I posted last night.
I had just watched this week's episode off the DVR when I posted last night.
Adam Lenhardt
Senior HTF Member
As did I, sir. Nice to know we're on the same page. One note that you hit upon and I didn't (but agree with) is that Julia's a pretty condescending wife and parent. When she wants mommy/kid time it's legitimate, but when Joel wants time to just be a couple he's an attention-starved baby. It's bad enough that she's thinking it, it's much worse that she told it to her daughter and thereby undermined Joel's authority.
I wonder if Crosby and Jasmine lying about being married is going to come back and bite Jabar with the school admissions.
I wonder if Crosby and Jasmine lying about being married is going to come back and bite Jabar with the school admissions.
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