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Parenthood - New TV Series on NBC (1 Viewer)

Adam Lenhardt

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Originally Posted by Greg_S_H

That was a terrific episode. I know I said I wasn't entirely thrilled with last week's, but this show follows the Jason Katims pattern where individual episodes are largely irrelevant. It's not about the plot of the week. It's just one big tapestry.

This show is firing on all cylinders now. There wasn't a single story line in last night's episode that I wasn't interested in. Phenomenal cast doing a phenomenal job, and as you say, the show builds on itself. It doesn't even really have arcs, because there are no clean breaks. Much like life, everything that has come before informs what we are seeing now.

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Sarah and Amber['s] mother/daughter fights [are] so realistic that I felt like it was something I shouldn't be watching--too raw. Too real. That's how the bedroom scene was tonight. It was heartbreaking for both Sarah and us to hear Amber say that hearing her mother call her life a mistake was calling her a mistake.

I damn near lost it when Amber said that. It was such a brave thing to admit, and it runs so much deeper than all of the surface problems, including Mr. Cyr. Amber would naturally take Sarah's unhappiness as a judgment on her, since she and Drew basically are Sarah's life at this point.

One thing that makes the relationship between Lauren Graham and Mae Whitman so effective is that they each have adopted some of the other's mannerisms. There was a moment during the lover's lane scene where I could have sworn that Lauren Graham was inside Mae Whitman's body. You never doubt for a minute that these two are blood, similar in key ways on this biological, instinctual level. And both actresses are terrific at portraying vulnerability underneath a tough, snarky exterior.

It's also valuable because Sarah is the only one of the four siblings that feels like she's living in the real world. Both Adam and Julia have charmed careers, and Crosby's living this Bohemian fantasy. Sarah had to move back home because she couldn't afford rent any more. That rings true to me in a way that being a young power lawyer or shoe executive doesn't. I spent my college years with an arty crowd, so I know plenty of Crosby's -- who are almost all still living off their parents' dime. There's no buffer for Sarah.
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"Do you know how much we love you?" "As much as I love my beetles."

I loved that bedroom scene. It was the first time Adam could say, you know what, nobody else is going through what we're going through. Nobody else in this family has a kid like Max, and they're not going to. But you know what? Screw 'em. Screw their pity and their judgment. Things are how they are, we're a family, and I don't think we have anything to apologize for.

None of that's to say things are going to magically fix themselves and all the stress and complication will disappear. Just that he's accepted the new normal, and doesn't need to be overly sensitive about it any more.

Originally Posted by mattCR

Good ep. I enjoyed it. But they were way more restrained with Damien then anyone I know would have been.. I can picture my parents turning around after the shower scene, saying nothing, calling the cops and saying the simple words "Statutory Rape" and have his goofball ass hauled off ;)
Is he over 18? I suppose he must be. With TV, it's impossible to tell since they cast older for teenagers. The thing about Damien is that he isn't an especially bad guy. He's low key, he treats Amber fine, he doesn't need to prove any macho bullshit. He's a probably only because he's a loser with no goals or ambitions, and worse, scorns the goals and ambitions of others. His lifestyle is the biggest problem, because Amber living it would make her a loser too.

I loved the beat when he mispronounced "marauder", and all of these things suddenly sunk in for Amber. She scorned school for a long time too, but I think she scorns ignorance too. Even without sitting in an English class, proper pronounciation is important to her. For the opening voiceover of one of the last episodes of "Dead Like Me," George said: "When I was little, my father who was an English teacher, used to tell me that I would never be alone as long as I had a good book. ... Reading didn't make me popular and reading didn't neccessarily make me happy. What it did make me was a really good speller." When kids first learn to read, they fork in one of two directions: the non-readers find it boring or struggle with it enough to resent it, while the readers make a connection with the written word that will stick with them their entire lives. Both Amber and Sarah are readers, and they aren't especially popular or happy. But they do have a rich internal life that they wouldn't give up for anything. Amber saw that Damien didn't have that interior life, and that's why she ended it.
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But I also thought the dialog this week was good, and the storyline with Crosby finally really clicked to me where a lot of the things that needed to be said between those characters came out.

Agreed. Crosby's gotten to the point where he's enough of a fixture in Jabar's life to have expectations of his own. When you love a kid as much as Crosby's come to love Jabar, it hard not to resent having five years of that kind of love stolen from you. On the flip side, I'm not sure Jasmine made the wrong call. We know who Crosby was before Jabar came into his life. He wasn't especially ready to be a father as recently as a couple months ago. Five years earlier, with five years less maturity, would Crosby have stepped up like he has now? Maybe. But there's also a very good chance that he would have been like Amber and Drew's father, this semi-present figure that views parenting as a hobby to be slotted in at one's convience when nothing more interesting's going on. What he has now is a good thing.

I also liked that much of the coldness coming off Jasmine had as much to do with Jasmine's issues as it did with anything Crosby did. This show generally has a myopic take on characters that aren't Bravermans by blood, a necessity with such a large cast. The playdate gone awry was a tool for Jasmine to justify decisions she made that she's really started to question with Crosby stepping up in a big and unexpected way. There's a lot of guilt on her end, for depriving Jabar of someone who's turning out to be a pretty great father. The fact that her own father was a deadbeat doubtless played a big role in that decision.

And Crosby was so incredibly patient and decent throughout the whole thing. He took shit from her entire family rather than betray her secret. He kept the focus on Jabar despite all of this drama swirling around the party, and he stuck around afterward for the clean-up after all of the affirming stuff was over. Perhaps because he's spent so much of his life being judged, he's incredibly accepting of the choices of others. If I was in his shoes, I'd be absolutely furious with Jasmine. He's not only not furious, he takes the time to appreciate her point of view. The final beat, watching the video of the delivery, was heartbreaking. Dax Shepard did a great job of expressing both the wonder of finally getting this piece of his son's life opened up to him and the deep ache of having missed it all in one expression. He's definitely the biggest surprise of the cast for me. Peter Krause, Lauren Graham, and Craig T. Nelson are also great, but you expect them to be. Nothing in Shepard's filmography hinted that he had a performance like this one in him.
 

Greg_S_H

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Originally Posted by Marty M

Adam, I thought the same thing about Crosby five years past. He probably would have run away just as Jasmine feared he would. He's not the same guy he was a couple of months ago, but I doubt if he had the capacity back then for the kind of change he's undergone. Now, if we could only catch up with Katie and see how she's processed all of this. Is she even still in the picture?
 

Patrick Sun

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Have we already forgotten about Crosby's girlfriend with the ticking biological clock? (or did they boot her to the curb already?)
 

mattCR

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Originally Posted by Patrick Sun

Have we already forgotten about Crosby's girlfriend with the ticking biological clock? (or did they boot her to the curb already?)
I think she left the cast. (I mean that seriously). So, she has conveniently left.
 

Adam Lenhardt

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Originally Posted by Greg_S_H /forum/thread/298617/parenthood-new-tv-series-on-nbc/60#post_3683639

It wasn't her call to make whether Crosby was "ready" or not.

I agree with you 100 percent on this point. Regardless of whether it was the right call, she didn't have any right to make it. I still think things might have turned out better for Jabar this way, but Crosby deserved the chance to prove himself at the time. The consequences of that decision will color everything around their relationship moving forward -- even if Crosby doesn't choose to make a big deal out of it.

If anyone watched that scene and thought Crosby was gettting misty-eyed at the miracle he was watching unfold from a lifetime (Jabar's) ago, I was watching it and thinking he was tearing-up at the thought of one of the greatest moments of anyone's life left unrealized.

I firmly believe it was both. I don't think he's ever felt the loss of those five years more acutely than when he was sitting on that couch watching that video, but I also think he was in awe of seeing his son born period. That's what makes his relationship with Jasmine so complex: on one hand, she's the source of the greatest joy he has in his life right now. On the other hand, she's the reason he was deprived of the best part of his life for the last five years. He's both grateful and and resentful, which are complicated feelings to juggle for the same person. It's why the prospect of dating Jasmine is playing with fire.
 

Mike Frezon

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If it was me, I don't think I could ever have a right relationship with a woman who committed that act. There would always be such a deep-seated resentment that could never be made right. It would be near impossible.
 

Greg_S_H

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Mike, don't get me wrong. I'm not saying it's good that she waited because he might have had a negative reaction. Like Adam, I'm just saying that he probably *would* have had a negative reaction five years ago. You have the right outlook on the situation and I hope the writers have all of those points in mind right now. This week could be the end of any kind of exploration of the subject, but I hope it's always a factor.
 

Mike Frezon

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Those writers better be hanging on every word I've written on the subject! They should be busy planning upcoming scripts based on my posts here! He had a strong family background to draw from and put in play as he would have been thrust into a premature fatherhood.
 

Patrick_S

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To me the whole thing about not telling him for 5 years and portraying him as a deadbeat to her family was glossed over way too easily.
I would expect her mother and bother to be particularly upset since they actually experienced an abandonment and wouldn't take too kindly of someone being falsely accused of such a horrible act.
As for Crosby's girl friend Katie on the show, she was just a recurring character and never a cast member so I think they always intended for Crosby and the mother of his son to get back together. Although personally I wouldn't see that happening in real life with their past history.
 

Adam Lenhardt

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Originally Posted by Patrick_S

To me the whole thing about not telling him for 5 years and portraying him as a deadbeat to her family was glossed over way too easily.

I would expect her mother and bother to be particularly upset since they actually experienced an abandonment and wouldn't take too kindly of someone being falsely accused of such a horrible act.

Oh, I'm sure Jasmine and her family had words over that bombshell. They just wanted to wait until the Bravermans weren't around before they shared them. That's an example of what I mean by the myopic view of non-Bravermans. If a storyline doesn't affect one of the four Braverman children, we probably aren't going to see it onscreen.
 

Citizen87645

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I too think Dax Shepard has been a very pleasant surprise. I know many Kristen Bell fans were scratching their heads over her engagement to him, but I think he's proved himself worthy, at least on a professional level. Based on a late show appearance he seems like a cool guy, so now I'm not so worried about Ms. Bell's life decisions. :0)
 

Adam Lenhardt

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I'm working an early shift this week, so I'll constrain myself to the following highlights:


"This is about flowers, right?" "I think it might be about your vag. Eeek!"

The scene in Steve's bedroom between Adam and Haddie being a near perfect mirror of the scene in the pilot between Sarah and Amber, down to the dialog and facial expressions.

If I was married to Julia, I'd have to kill myself.
 

Adam Lenhardt

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An absolutely searing hour of television. You know what moment got me the most? When the guest house scene cut to Sarah's collage, and the first closeup shot focuses on a photo of Crosby with Jabar on his lap. Over the course of this season, we've seen Crosby go from being totally opposed to being a father to finding his son in his arms by instinct; we've seen Crosby's journey with Jabar, but that's been largely seperate from the main thrust of the Braverman story. That photo in Sarah's collage is so symbolically important because it shows that the rest of the family has accepted him as one of their own too, as the montague passes to each branch of the family in turn. And where does it settle? On the photo of Zeek and Camille at the center of the family and collage, roots from which everything else has grown. And those roots are withering.

From the very first episode, there's been a dark undercurrent to Zeek and Camille's relationship that festered but was largely left alone. The show dealt with it very obliquely, through scenes between Adam and Zeek and scenes between Sarah and Camille that have been acting masterpieces from Craig T. Nelson and Bonnie Bedelia. Zeek is hollowed out and haunted, a man who is acutely aware of his problems and limitations but completely unequipped to express them. It's not regret he's feeling exactly, more like a carefully managed despair. Like Julia, his self-image is so tied up in being successful that failure is something he can't move past. Camille doesn't see any of this because he doesn't let her. Instead the bitterness and resentment build as she finds herself locked out of her own marriage. She thinks it's because he doesn't trust her or because he's dismissive of her, not realizing that his inability to tell her has nothing to do with her faculties and everything to do with his sense of failure. All of it is colored by his affair, because that robbed Camille of any trust she could place in him.

The next most heartbreaking story line is Crosby and Jasmine, as he desperately tries to construct this nuclear family for himself and his son only to find that Jasmine still doesn't give him the credit that he gives her. On one level, the disparity has everything to do with the guards Jasmine developed as a long-time single mother and the lack of guards that Crosby brings from his relatively care-free adulthood. But the deeper issue is whether Jasmine can respect Crosby. None of her actions thus far indicate that she can; he was a fun fling that pushed her into adulthood early. She knows how she's changed since, but she still looks at Crosby as that man-child she had the fling with. There were several moments that made it clear Crosby noticed, even if he's trying not to let it get to them. Trying to keep their relationship secret from Jabar was the responsible movie, but they're still heading into risky territory by holding out the promise of two parents and the white picket fence when things are way to early and foundationally problematic to the extreme.

Third most heartbreaking storyline is Amber and Haddie's boyfriend. Amber's got enough life experience to know it's a bad idea, she has several moments throughout where she can see how much this is going to hurt down the road, and yet there's this deeply vulnerable side of her: the teenage girl that's never been treated especially well and craves the attention of the popular good looking boy who says such sweet things to her. The fact is that there was more than a little bit of truth to Amber's sarcastic line at the beginning: "Serving the ruling class, as usual." That she turns to Haddie's cast-off says something brutal about how she feels about herself.

Fourth most heartbreaking storyline was Adam and Kristina realizing that having the weird kid means not getting to hang with the cool families any more. This whole storyline says volumes about how families have changed even in the last couple decades. When I was growing up, parents had friends and their kids got wedged together whether they liked each other or not. If I'd have say that I found one of the other family's kids weird, my parents would have told me not to interrupt while the adults are visiting and to go back and play with my little friend. In other words, they felt they had to be parents the rest of the time, so I could suck it up for a couple hours while they took the chance to be adults for a little while. The scene at the end back with the really weird family was affirming because they found a different sort of happiness.

I doubt were done with Julia the soccer tyrant. We've seen this story line plenty of times before, but it's still pretty harsh seeing your own mom ignore you for the newer, more talented member of the family. Julia measures her own self-worth by success, so she lapses into measuring her kid by the same standard. Meanwhile Joel is slowly developing the same kind of resentment that Camille's been holding in for a few decades now.
 

Citizen87645

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Someone mentioned how Mae Whitman has picked up Lauren Graham's mannerisms. I'm starting to see the same with Sarah Ramos, who plays Haddie, with Monica Potter's Kristina. Heck, there were more than a few moments in the last episode where I thought they looked a lot alike.
 

ScottH

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Wow, hats off Adam...you have really dug deep on this show. For me, it's a bit more lighter-fare and I don't think I get as much out of it as you do. That's not to say I don't enjoy the show though...I'm actually enjoying it very much. I have to say I'm not a big fan of the Zeek/Camille story line though. Craig T is great in his role...just not that interested in their relationship. The other relationships going on are far more interesting.
 

Mike Frezon

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Originally Posted by ScottH

I have to say I'm not a big fan of the Zeek/Camille story line though. Craig T is great in his role...just not that interested in their relationship. The other relationships going on are far more interesting.

I think what's going to be most interesting about the parents' troubles is how they will impact on each of the kids. I think we already see that it's going to hit some of them hard.
 

Adam Lenhardt

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Originally Posted by Greg_S_H /forum/thread/298617/parenthood-new-tv-series-on-nbc/60#post_3688398

I think what's going to be most interesting about the parents' troubles is how they will impact on each of the kids. I think we already see that it's going to hit some of them hard.

Absolutely. In a strange way, I think Sarah and Crosby will weather it better than Adam and Julia because they don't have as much invested in the strength of the nuclear family. In Crosby's case it might even be beneficial because seeing the cracks in their relationship will cause him to give more serious consideration to what he's doing with Jasmine.
 

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