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Paradigm surrounds: Studio/20 vs. Studio/ADP

Discussion in 'Archived Threads 2001-2004' started by Douglas Bailey, Jan 22, 2002.

  1. Douglas Bailey

    Douglas Bailey Second Unit

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    I've recently moved from an apartment to a house and am looking at getting new (bigger, better) speakers to go with my Denon AVR-5700 receiver. Up to now, I've made do with a nice little Cambridge Soundworks set, but my newfound absence of upstairs neighbours is really feeding the upgrading urge. [​IMG]
    I've already ordered an SVS 16-46PC to be my new subwoofer (a single one to start with: I can get a second one later if it proves necessary). For the remaining speakers, I'm leaning -- based on recommendations and a little listening -- toward the Paradigm Reference Studio line.
    My question for any Paradigm owners on the HTF is: for surround speakers, do you prefer the Studio/20 (direct-radiator) or Studio/ADP (dipolar/bipolar)? And what makes you prefer your particular choice?
    Some notes: I use my HT system primarily for movies, with music running a distant second-place. My LD/DVD collection is pretty evenly balanced, from a surround point of view, between full-on 5.1-channel DD/DTS tracks (I neither have nor want EX/ES capability) and matrixed surround tracks.
    Thanks in advance for any answers: I appreciate having such an expert audience to ask...
    doug
     
  2. Howard_S

    Howard_S Supporting Actor

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    I would definitely go with the Studio ADPs for HT purposes. I would go with ADPs for the side surrounds and the 20s for the rear centers if you can use it.

    Ultimately it depends on what your tastes. The ADPs being dipole speakers will give you a more dispersed sound while the 20s will give you a more direct/accurate/localized sound. Generally, dipoles are recommended for rear side surrounds. If you can place the 20s the same distance from you than your mains then the 20s should work well but if you don't have room and have to place it close to your ear you should definitely go with the ADPs.

    If multichannel music is important and if your room is big enough I would consider the Studio 20s as it would give you better versatality since it would sound better than the ADPs in multichannel music.

    I think for your needs you should get the ADPs. I have the Studio ADPS myself and they're awesome. I believe dipoles are the way to go for the rear sides. Most prefer monopoles for rear centers however.
     
  3. EricHaas

    EricHaas Supporting Actor

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    Ditto on the ADP's. Dipoles are more immersive. They give you a wider soundfield at the expense of a little bit of imaging. Good choice going with the Reference line BTW. You can't go wrong.
     
  4. Douglas Bailey

    Douglas Bailey Second Unit

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    Since my surround speakers are going to be closer to my listening position -- about 7 feet away, compared to nearly 12 feet for my front L/R speakers -- it sounds like I should concentrate on the Studio/ADPs and not worry about the Studio/20s as rears.

    Thanks, Howard and Eric, for your helpful responses.

    doug
     
  5. EricHaas

    EricHaas Supporting Actor

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    BTW, I believe (but am not sure) that a Studio ADP is essentially two Studio 20's in one cabinet. I know that in the Monitor line, the Monitor ADP is supposed to be 2 Monitor Minis. That explains the rather steep price I would assume.
     
  6. itai

    itai Stunt Coordinator

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    i too had that dilema, and went for the adp's for their great surround(!...) sound. you dont have something in your ear, it's there, without the localized effect of the 20's.

    i'll get the 20's later (when i move to a bigger flat), for the 6th channel the reciever gives me. but for starters, the adp's are the most fun for the money.

    paradigm reference rocks!!

    itai
     
  7. Douglas Bailey

    Douglas Bailey Second Unit

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  8. James Elvick

    James Elvick Supporting Actor

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    I've had both in my setup and like both for different reasons. The only caution I can give you on the dipole Studio ADP's is the configuration of your room. Since the ADP's fire along the sides of the walls and reflect off the rear wall (if you have one![​IMG] ) both sides should be similiar. In my case one side of the room opens to a hall and the soundfield did not sound as good as the other side of the room and ended up going with Studio 20's mounted very high to the sides, slightly behind the listening postion. YMMV>
    James
     
  9. Douglas Bailey

    Douglas Bailey Second Unit

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    James: my HT room is configured such that one surround speaker will be near a corner and the other along an open wall. I'm sure this will colour the reverberant surround field, but there's not much I can do about it (there's just no way to re-orient the room without blocking an entrance with the couch or RPTV).

    I'm hoping to get to a few more dealers this week (the one I visited over the weekend only had the Studio/60s set up -- no CC, no ADPs, no 20s -- so I couldn't really hear how it would work as a 5.1 system). I'll update this thread with my conclusions when I have a chance to form them.

    Meanwhile, thanks again to everyone who's responded.

    doug
     
  10. Edward M

    Edward M Stunt Coordinator

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    I have the same issue. Would have to put one ADP almost in a corner and another along an open wall. I'm also trying to decide on the 20's or ADPs. I've been told that if you sit 5 foot or more from the side speakers and you don't have a full wall (side or back) on one or more sides of the room the 20's for side surround's are the way to go. Right now i'm leaning toward the 20's mounted about 3 foot and slightly behind the listening area. Seems like a good mix or direct and ambient sound.

    Ed
     
  11. Howard_S

    Howard_S Supporting Actor

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    If in doubt buy the ADPs. The ADPs will be much more versatile as HT surrounds. However if you have multichannel music inspirations going with the Studio 20s might be better since it'll be better for music as I have said and if you're not happy with its HT performance you can add the ADPs later, upgrade to a 7ch receiver and have a great 7ch surround setup.

    I too want to add a pair of studio 20s but I'm not sure if it's worth the price if I'm just going to put it in the back and am worried that I might not get the sound I want when I get a multichannel sacd player with the ADPs. But I can tell you that the ADPs sound amazing.
     
  12. Edward M

    Edward M Stunt Coordinator

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    Howard,

    I left something out. I already have 20's as surrounds (5.1). What i'm really trying to decide is if I should buy an additional pair of 20's or get the ADP's for channel 6&7 of my Denon 3801. Unfortunately I would be buying for the future as I don't have space for all 7 speakers just yet. But regardless of what I get a pair of 20's will be in the bedroom using the Denon configured for multichannel until I move to a bigger space. So if I get ADP's they will be the rears in 5.1 since I won't be using them alone in a bedroom system.

    Ed
     
  13. Paul Gere

    Paul Gere Second Unit

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    Direct radiators vs. dipole becomes an emotional debate for some. I've owned both the 20's and the ADP's.

    Let me state as objectively as I can...

    Get the ADP's.
     
  14. Howard_S

    Howard_S Supporting Actor

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    Sorry Edward I was simply stating in a general way so I didn't exactly tailor my advice to you. Now...

    Edward so are you mainly interested in music or HT? How are the 20s as rear surrounds in movies? Do they sound good to ya? I'm not sure if I'm understanding you right. Are your current 20s going somewhere else? In a different system? Is this new pair you're looking at for movies or multichannel music? Or are the new ones going to be in your movie setup while you have a separate multichannel music system in your bedroom?
     
  15. Edward M

    Edward M Stunt Coordinator

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    Howard,

    I currently have a 5.1 system with the 20's as rears. I prefer this for 5.1 because I do listen to 5 channel stereo off the Denon at times and have plans on SACD in the coming years. Unfortunately I currently have to sit within 4 feet of the right monopole surround. Because of this I compromised and put it 3 feet above my listening position and slightly back. I don't think it sounds bad.

    In my bedroom: I just sold a pair of NHT Superones. My thought was that I would use that money toward another set of paradigm reference speakers which would eventually be used for rear (or side) surrounds in a 7.1 system. I won't have the space for speakers 6&7 in the livingroom for about a year.

    So if I buy ADP's, I will only have dipole surrounds in the living room and 20's in the bedroom.

    If I buy 20's, I could keep my current arrangement and put the 20's in the bedroom.

    However I will compromise HT/music sound today to have a great system when I move to a bigger space. Unfortunately I don't know what that future space looks like.

    Another thing which is driving my decision to buy today is the prospect that Paradigm will come out with their verion 3 of their speaker line...and I will miss the chance to complete my "matched" speaker collection...besides I have the money now.

    I guess since the ADP's give a diffused sound field maybe it won't make a difference mixing ADP versions at a later date.

    Any thoughts?

    Ed
     
  16. Bob Br

    Bob Br Agent

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    Anyone have an opinion on 6.1 surrounds? Should they all be the same (i.e. dipoles vs directs vs mixture)? I have Paradigm on my short list and for my purposes, HT 70%, was considering the Studio ADP's or 20's for side surrounds. What would be the benefit/issues with using the ADP's on the sides and a 20 for rear center? I am very new to the HT forum, but I have already learned much from you guys (and gals) and value your input.

    Bob
     
  17. Craig Woodhall

    Craig Woodhall Supporting Actor

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    I have a Lex with 7.1... I use studio 40's for the fronts and I use studio 20's for the sides and rears.. I don't like the diffused sound.. IMO, the 20's are better for music as well as they can be used as mains one day if things change.. When the sound is supposed to come from the left side above me, i don't want to hear a diffused sound firing both ways and bouncing off the front and back walls, to me it just doesn't work! I have my side and rear surrounds mounted 6ft in the air facing down towards me and the effect is great.. Things pan around the room incredibly and they are NOT localizable. I think you should let your ears decide..
     
  18. Howard_S

    Howard_S Supporting Actor

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    Bob. The preferred way is to have dipoles for rear sides and monopoles for rears. So yes ADP as your rear sides and 20s is preferable. In fact that's what I want but I don't have the extra money and enough inclination to buy a pair of 20s just for the purpose of getting rear surrounds.

    Edward. You do have to compromise between HT and music a bit. At least in terms of convience. I mean you can always connect things differently for music purposes. I have never heard any multichannel SACDs so I can't comment on the use of the rears but as mentioned the 20s will definitely be better for music but ADPs will definitely be better for movies especially in your situation. The 20s is bugging you afterall right? So for the present I would get the ADPs. I personally would go for the ADPs since I believe the rears will be more important in movies than in multichannel music for quite some time so unless you're a music nut you won't mind the compromise in music but would appreciate the difference in movies especially now.

    I don't think the V3s will be an issue imo since few can hear differences between V1 & V2 in terms of timbre. They would either have to be very different or you have to have amazing ears to hear that they're not timbre matched.

    It's really up to you. My rears are currently very close to my ears and I recently got the ADPs. I really think they're the way to go for movies. I say get the ADPs. Who knows what's going to happen in the future. You'll enjoy it now and you can move the 20s to the rears giving you a great movie and music setup.
     
  19. Scott Page

    Scott Page Stunt Coordinator

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    I have the ADP 170's in the rear. On one side the wall opens up into a hallway 5 inches in front of the forward-facing driver. I have not found it to be any problem at all. I can't really tell any difference between the sound of the two when actually watching a movie.
     
  20. StevieC

    StevieC Extra

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    Just out of curiosity, does the 20 have a port on the back ? If so, is placement against/near the side wall or back wall an issue ?

    Another question, for the ADP, does anyone know why they are more box shaped ? I don't know anything about speaker design, but if you noticed other mfg's physical apperance, the shape tends to be more trapezoidal instead of rectangular? A design feature ?

    Thanks.
     

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