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Paradigm Studio 20's plus H/K AVR525...

Discussion in 'Archived Threads 2001-2004' started by ArthurJ, Feb 3, 2003.

  1. ArthurJ

    ArthurJ Second Unit

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    A guy on the forums said the H/K reciever would NOT power these speakers sufficiently...I live in an apartment and im possibly doing 20's all around...what is your take on this? The H/K puts out an underated 70 watts...
     
  2. MikeRP

    MikeRP Supporting Actor

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    Where'd this guy come from?

    That receiver will eat those speakers for lunch.

    I had a 520 and its a beastie boy. 525 is better.

    Go for it!

    You'll love it. I would have considered the 525 had it been out a few months early so I ended up with the Pioneer 45 TX - my Studio 40's,CC work great with the receiver.

    Mike
     
  3. ArthurJ

    ArthurJ Second Unit

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    oh ok...anybody else???
     
  4. Dave Ma

    Dave Ma Stunt Coordinator

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    That guy is right here! I own Paradigm Studio's and they like POWER. Now that so called 70 WPC HK will not make anywhere near that 70 WPC with 5 channels driven at one time. Call Paradigm and they will tell you to get the best, most out of these speakers you need something with a lot more kick.Say 150-200 wpc. That little HK will drive them, but no where near where they need to be.They will not even wake up with that receiver and when you go to HT 5 channel forget it!
    Eat those Speakers for lunch, now someone is dreaming!
    Im outta here, enough said, buy what you want it's your money not mine.
     
  5. ArthurJ

    ArthurJ Second Unit

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    Dave, I was just curious, have you owned a H/K receiver? The 525 has Dual, Independent Power Supplies for Front and Rear Channels. It's actually quite a beefy receiver. I have seen the birthsheet and they put out more then there rated power under controlled circumstances at 7 channels. I have seen birthsheets for other so called high end receivers and they don't put out near the claimed power rateing. My local paradigm dealer runs his 20's off a denon receiver...no external amp. I was just kinda shocked to hear this. Im not arguing, infact im taking your advice...but I just want to get everybody elses feedback on this issue as well...thanks!
     
  6. ErichH

    ErichH Screenwriter

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    Not long ago, I powered 4 Studio 40s and a Studio CC with an HK520, and it was fine. The HK was an excellent reciever with very warm amps which help the Studios(cause they can be a little bright with other receivers)

    Yes, the Studios do sound a little better with higher power, but the HK will perform well with the 20s at normal to loud levels. Getting the best performance out of almost any speaker requires big power. Most of the time you don't need it.

    I'll add that I powered the same set with a B&K 305(150W per chan) and the difference was small at normal levels, but when I used the reciever at really loud levels, it was just louder without compression. The Studios kept going at high level. The HK would not take them to that point. But then, it's 1/3 the price of the B&K. I could never listen at that level for more than a few minutes.

    The HK opened my eyes mainly because of the amp quality for the price. You can always get a bigger HK later.

    Just an opinion from my experience
    Eric
     
  7. MikeRP

    MikeRP Supporting Actor

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    The HK's consistently perform up to spec. They are one of the few receivers that are rated "All Channels Driven".

    Now, we all know when you buy a receiver you are making compromises. But, the one thing HK doesn't do is compromise their power supply.

    Trust me - you buy the HK - it will do everything you want unless you don't want ears left.

    If your concerned buy a PA2000 2 channel amp (100 WPC)- preout the front mains and you'll have all that reserve capacity for the the remaining speakers.

    Incidentally Max input power on the 20's is 100 WPC. You could use 200 WPC but it might be overkill and you can damage speakers by having too much power.

    I don't even own a 525, my Pioneer drives my paradigms nicely. I had a 520 and I stand by my statement - the 525 will eat those Paradigms for lunch!

    Mike
     
  8. Mike_Gr

    Mike_Gr Stunt Coordinator

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    You should be fine with the H/K 525. The 525 is well designed with a hefty power supply....it will not drop down significantly while all channels are driven like some receivers are known to do. Furthermore, if you check Paradigm's website they state suitable power ratings for the Studio 20 are 15-150 watts. IMO, I wouldn't power them with less than 55wpc in order to produce desireable results. The H/K 525 exceeds that.
     
  9. Dave Ma

    Dave Ma Stunt Coordinator

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    HK :
    The HK's consistently perform up to spec. They are one of the few receivers that are rated "All Channels Driven".

    "ALL channels Driven" Does not mean all at the same time!
    Its deceptive. Drive all channels at the same time for HT and your 70 WPC just dropped to about 45 WPC.
    All channels driven means: When they test them they test 2 channels at one time, not all together at once.

    Rotel is the only rceiver I know of that can put out more then it's claimed power to all channels driven at the same time and much more to 2 channels driven at one time.

    But you know ,I give up on this!

    See signature
     
  10. Michael_V

    Michael_V Second Unit

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    Well, well.

    Numbers mean something, but actual experience is preferable. If those with this receiver/speaker combination are not having problems, you will likely be fine!

    On the other hand, I have said in another post that my old Sony 30ES did not adequately drive the Paradigms, and I ended up blowing the tweeter in my center channel due to clipping, so some amps at least do not give these beasts enough power. I have also been told that it takes 100 good, clean watts to really open these up, which was my experience when I made the switch to a Parasound amp, as well.

    Just my two cents.
     
  11. David Lorenzo

    David Lorenzo Stunt Coordinator

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    S&V tested the HK 510 with 5 channels driven at the same time. It is rated at 70w and put out 74w per channel.

    They also tested a HK 7000 rated at 100w and puts out 113w. The Rotel 1065 is rated at 100w and puts out 106w.

    The tests speak for themselves.
     
  12. ArthurJ

    ArthurJ Second Unit

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    awsome responses guys...keep em coming...
     
  13. MikeRP

    MikeRP Supporting Actor

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    Yes - I agree "All channels driven" does not mean the same for all companies. I expect that my 45 TX is putting out 80 WPC or less with 7 channels driven. But, HK, contrary to others - does stay very conservative on their estimates and this has proven out in independent reports.

    Very few of the others do.

    Mike
     
  14. Chas_T

    Chas_T Supporting Actor

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    Arthur,

    My take.

    I own 20's, 40's and 100's. The 20's at the present time are being driven in a seperate room in a 2 channel setup with a Sony STR-DA777ES rated at 105 per channel. It sounds very, very nice.

    In the past, I drove 40's and 20's with this receiver in a 5.1 enviornment and it sounded fine. However, I DO NOT listen at high volume levels. My guess is, living in an apartment, you may not crank it up at those higher volume levels.

    I would agree with Dave MA to a point when he writes, "That little HK will drive them, but no where near where they need to be. They will not even wake up with that receiver and when you go to HT 5 channel forget it!"

    The HK will drive them for sure. However, the 20's WILL NOT not reach their full potential as Dave suggests. Many of us could write this unless we have high end amps/receivers with lots of power, but there is balance in choosing components and how they blend for darn sure.

    I use Sherbourn and Modial at the moment. I am sure with Classe, Krell or another higher end amp, it would sound even better. The question is what can you afford and dollar wise, take it to what level of sound reproduction?

    I think the 20's would be a nice addition to your system. However, audition them if possible with your current setup.

    Others may disagree with this statement, but due to upgradeitis and past experience, I'd focus on speakers first and then try to add the balance of the components later with the major budget focused on speakers. That's me.

    Balance is essential when selecting components. However, in this case, the Studio 20 should work fine with your current receiver, but keep in mind that you can increase the output by adding a better receiver or seperates in the future.

    Just my take.

    Also, here is a nice explanation from another post about why the Studio Series likes more power as Dave suggests. In the discussion below, the gentleman is referring to the Studio 100 series, which are a different animal then then the 20 series, but I think the same logic applies. I don't think Martin would mind if I quoted his words.

    http://www.hometheaterforum.com/htfo...ght=studio+100

    **********************

    "Regarding the amp power claims...

    Check this link out... try a few number and see what kinds of power you actually need.

    http://www.myhometheater.homestead.c...alculator.html

    For example, the speakers are rated at 91dB SPL at 1 watt and 1 meter. With a 19 watt amp 8 feet away, the speakers withing 2 to 4 feet of a back wall, you'll get 102.1dB peak SPL, which is more than enough, at least for critical 2 channel listening. Extra headroom is a nice thing, and to get and additional 6dB of "cushion", an 80 watt amp will suffice. A 40 watt amp will get you an extra 3 dB headroom (that is, a max SPL of 105.3dB).

    It's not the extra power which makes the 100's really sing, it's the amplifiers impedence handling. The 100's have a very amplifier "unfriendly" impedence curve over the various frequencies, and it's the amplifiers ability to handle the curve which distinguishes it as far as the 100's are concerned. It just happens that generally high power amps tend to have better load handling characteristics.

    Put it another way, most people who have 300Wpc amps never actually go about 50 or so watts, but the 300Wpc amp will still sound way better than a 100 Wpc receiver.

    Having said that, I drive my 100's with a 300Wpc amp!"
     
  15. ArthurJ

    ArthurJ Second Unit

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    Ok...well I have a couple questions...

    1) If I had an outboard amp stricly for my 2 front L/R, would this give more power to all the others when watching in 5.1 format?

    2) Would my outboard amp have a different sound then my H/K amp?

    3) I don't see the point in spending so much money on a receiver when you have to buy an outboard amp...how much do they usually run anyways?

    thanks
     
  16. MikeRP

    MikeRP Supporting Actor

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    Yes, it would give you more available power. You may not use it but it would do this. The HK PA 2000 is 100 WPC and should match the 525 nicely. It sells for $250 -$300 at JandR.com. There are many others most at least as expensive if not more.

    I don't think you need it however! My advice is to try it first then buy it if you think you need it - you won't.IMHO.


    Good Luck!

    Mike
     
  17. Christopher~O

    Christopher~O Stunt Coordinator

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    Ouch, the kind folks at Futureshop want $800 CDN for the HKPA3000, it's $250 US at JandR. Good thing JR ships to Canada...

    Cheers,
    SSS
     
  18. ArthurJ

    ArthurJ Second Unit

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    Yes thank god for J&R...so that amp puts out 100 watts at 2 channels...does that mean that the watts that would normally go to the speakers from the reciever go to the other speakers? or do they go to the same speakers giving them a total of 170 watts?
     
  19. MikeRP

    MikeRP Supporting Actor

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    "Yes thank god for J&R...so that amp puts out 100 watts at 2 channels...does that mean that the watts that would normally go to the speakers from the reciever go to the other speakers? or do they go to the same speakers giving them a total of 170 watts? "

    The 20's, I beleive, are capable of being bi-amped.

    So, you have two options. Pre-out the FL, and FR to the new HK PA-2000. Hook the speakers FL and FR up to the PA2000 and all the other speakers up to the 525.

    That allows all availale power in the 525 to focus on the center, SR,SBR,SL,and SBL speakers.

    Or you can bi-amp. Pre out the 525 to the PA-2000. Hook up the FL and FR to the bottom speaker terminals of the Studio 20's from the 2000.

    Hook up the top speakers terminal of the 20's to the FL, and FR of the 525. Now, both amps are providing power to the 20's. Nice huh? Everyone says this is a dramatic improvement in sound quality. Oh - don't forget to remove the gold connectors between the top and bottom of the 20's speaker terminals or boom - no speaker!

    It s probably not as hard as I make it sound and the Paradigms come with instructions on how to bi-wire or bi-amp. If you do a search on the forum you'll find people who know alot more about this than me.

    Good Luck!

    Oh Bi-amping probably does mean the FL and FR would be capable of getting 170 WPC if needed.

    Mike
     
  20. Christopher~O

    Christopher~O Stunt Coordinator

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    You would not be using the Front L&R signal from the 525 (unless you bi-amped, but I don't know if that's a terribly good idea) so you would be putting 100 watts to the front L&R.

    The 2000 is on back order until next week, comes to just under $300 with expedited fed-ex shipping.

    Cheers,
    Chris

    *edit* Anyone else care to comment on the bi-amping issue? Just wondering if mismatched wattage is a good thing?
     

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