Paradigm PW-2200 vs. SVS 20-39PC?

Discussion in 'Archived Threads 2001-2004' started by james e m, Oct 30, 2001.

  1. james e m

    james e m Second Unit

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    Ok so for quite sometime I have been planning to upgrade to an all Paradigm set up. Recently I have been bit by this SVS bug and Since they are around the same price range, I was curious as to how the Paradigm PW-2200 compares to the SVS 20-39PC? If anybody could give me some info or recommendations I'd appreciate it.
    james
    ps I'm sorry if anybody has already touched upon this subject.
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    When in doubt...Rock it out.
     
  2. Tom Vodhanel

    Tom Vodhanel Cinematographer

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    Both subs are among the best in the price range I think. I don't think if you A/Bed them...you'd notice a huge difference either way. The 20-39 would have the advantage in clean output real low(near 20hz for example)...but in the HT bass intensive freqs of 25-80hz...the performance would be very close I bet.
    TV
     
  3. Thomas F

    Thomas F Stunt Coordinator

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    I have a PW-2200 and am also interested in any comparisons. How would a PW-2200 compare to the Ultra series? Sometime down the road, I might be interested in upgrading to an Ultra.
     
  4. Tom Vodhanel

    Tom Vodhanel Cinematographer

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    I think the Ultra would be more comparable to the HGS18.
    We'd be looking at about 2-4x the clean output of the PW2200 down low.
    TV
     
  5. Duane_T

    Duane_T Stunt Coordinator

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    I have been considering both too. With Canadian prices on the Paradigm its hard to go SVS. But on the other hand, I have heard so much good stuff on the SVS I really want that too.
    How fussy is the 2200 for placement?
     
  6. Lou Sytsma

    Lou Sytsma Producer

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    I would humbly submit that the SVS 20-39PC performance matches up against a Servo-15 quite nicely.
    I have heard both.
    ------------------
    Every man is my superior, in that I may learn from him.
    MyHTSetup
     
  7. james e m

    james e m Second Unit

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    I'm in the same boat as Duane, I can have the PW-2200 for a less than $500 American, which makes it tough to say no to. But I never really hear anybody ranting and raving about how their Paradigm PW-2200 makes their paint chip off the walls.
    james
    ps thanks to Tom for the info
    ------------------
    When in doubt...Rock it out.
     
  8. Steve Morgan

    Steve Morgan Second Unit

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    I have a Servo 15 and a 20-39cs and would say that the 20-39cs is on equal footing with the Servo 15. I really like them both.
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  9. Vince Chan

    Vince Chan Stunt Coordinator

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    The pw2200 is a good sub, however, it will not chip paint from the walls unless a) you have the overall volume loud, or b) you have the sub turned a few db louder then the rest of the speakers.
    I like having an all-paradigm system so I won't go for an SVS. I just have my sub turned up 5db louder than the rest of my speakers during calibration.
    Of course, an HT perfectionist would never go this route.
    -Vince
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    http://www.arcticcircle.ca/about.htm
     
  10. Dre J

    Dre J Stunt Coordinator

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    Hello,
    I have the PW-2200 and it's very capable of giving good sound. For HT applications, the PW-2200 matches good with the 20-39PC. My PW-2200 is in a large room and I'm satisfied with the HT performance. I don't use the PW-2200 for 2-channel stereo listening.
    Even though many people will tell you the PW-2200 is a good "musical" subwoofer, I disagree. I can and will again at my next HT meet show the resonant wart of the PW-2200 as far as music reproduction. I didn't notice this resonant issue until I found the exact low end note that would excite it.
    Is it something to make me sell my PW-2200? NO.
    If I had a choice of the two (PW-2200 or SVS 20-39PC) at the same price, Which one would I choose? SVS 20-39PC
    How do I know the PW-2200 is not as musical as stated? I've listen to many different types of music using my Studio 100s to fill the low end vs the PW-2200. The Studio 100 v.2 does it better. These are not ultra low notes below the 3 dB point of 24 Hz or even the 2 dB point of 38 Hz of the Studio 100s. The studio 100s don't do what the PW-2200 does, muddy the note at a specific frequency.
    To further verify it's the PW-2200 and not the Studio 100s, I enlisted the help of a local HT buddy who had the 20-39PC. One Saturday morning, I drove to Dayton from just north of Cincinnati. Once I got to Greg's home. We went through many HT demo's of DVD's and I was Impressed at the 20-39PC's ability. This is first hand knowledge of SVS handiwork. Once we were done with demos, I asked Greg to play one of the CD's I brought with me that had the material to show the PW-2200's resonant wart (a jazz CD). The 20-39PC, also a ported sub, didn't show the problem. In fact, It reproduced the sound JUST like my studio 100s v.2s. We then put his Klipsch (sp?) in full mode and they reproduced the same sound without resonating that note, although at a lower output level on the low end.
    So now you have my opinion. The PW-2200 is still in my setup complemented by my floor mounted Bass Shakers. Now if I had to buy another sub and didn't have to Pay Ohio sales tax [​IMG], I'd order some SVS.
    Dre
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    My little corner of the world
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  11. james e m

    james e m Second Unit

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    Well what would you guys suggest? I want to have a dual sub system, I have a couple options:
    1) I can buy two SVS 20-39PC for around $1500 and be hopefully happy. I say hopefully only because I can't audition them first.
    2) Or I can buy two Paradigm PW-2200 for around $1000 and spend the extra money on something new, like a progressive scan dvd player, a surround sub or something else.
    But let me say this, I really do love bass and I want to be able to produce the low end of a nice theater [​IMG]
    ------------------
    When in doubt...Rock it out.
     
  12. SVS-Ron

    SVS-Ron Screenwriter

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    James,
    I'd do neither. If you are planning dual subs from the outset, and have a Dolby Digital receiver for bass management, then go for the dual 20-39CS and Samson amp combo for $1,199. You give up "auto on" with the CS package (I leave my Samson on all the time FWIW) but that's about it. The CS rig will actually perform several dBs louder than twin PC subs, given more power, and a tick more enclosure space.
    You could be "happy" with any of the combinations you describe, but if you the most bang for your buck, and an unbeatable system, that's the one to get. Twin PW-2200s will not hold a candle to that package in my estimation (not based on recent test data in Sound and Vision anyway).
    Tom Nousaine has tested the Paradigm ad nauseum. But he didn't say the 20-39CS was the best sub for under $1,000 (he was speaking on one sub, you can now, nearly, get TWO AND an amp for his benchmark price) without thinking about the PW-2200. Our subs are actually improved in many ways since his very early test samples too.
    You can spend 45 days with an SVS package deciding if we speak the truth (or just making sure TN is never called a lier). Maybe you can find someone willing to let you audition a pair of PW-2200s for that time?
    Ron
    SVS Customer Service
    MSU Grad 1983
     
  13. james e m

    james e m Second Unit

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    Ron...
    Thanks for the reply, you have given me a lot to ponder! [​IMG] If you don't mind me asking I thought that the difference between the CS line and the PC line is that the PC line came with the Samson amp? What's the difference? I'm sorry if this is a silly question but I am far from an expert in this area. Do you think I would run into any problems running a dual SVS system?
    Thanks...
    james
     
  14. SVS-Ron

    SVS-Ron Screenwriter

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    James,
    Problems? Hardly.
    As for your questions, I think a visit to our FAQs page might be in order. They don't call them FAQ's for nothing, it's a good question but one we address, at least in part, here:
    http://www.svsubwoofers.com/faqs.htm
    One cable and some speaker wire is all you need. The rest is just you basking in the envy all your guests and friends will bestow on you.
    Ron
     
  15. Earl_C

    Earl_C Agent

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    "Twin PW-2200s will not hold a candle to that package in my estimation..."
    Comments like these, I think, don't give an accurate account. I think dual 2200's would hold up quite well.
    "Tom Nousaine has tested the Paradigm ad nauseum."
    And he also measured the 2200 to have more clean output than the Servo-15. Is this the case?
    [Edited last by Earl_C on November 01, 2001 at 01:16 PM]
     
  16. Gruson

    Gruson Second Unit

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    I prefer the PW2200. I tried dual SVS subs and still preferred the Paradigm.
    Great sub.
     
  17. Tom Vodhanel

    Tom Vodhanel Cinematographer

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    per TN's measuring methods,
    twin PW2200s would hit 90dB/20hz and 114dB when avg from 25-63hz. The twin 20-39s hit 97/20hz and 115.5(25-63hz).
    If the source content was primarily >25hz..there's probably be little audible ifference(although 1.5dB isn;t something to casually shrug off either). But a 7dB difference at 20hz is pretty significant.I seriously doubt anyone would be unhappy with either product.
    TN measured the servo15 about 4-5 years ago now and the review text had very little performance data compared to more recent reviews.there was the 25-63avg...not much else.
    If he re-reviewed it...I would expect it to do better than the PW2200
     
  18. SVS-Ron

    SVS-Ron Screenwriter

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    Earl,
    I should have been more specific. I should have said "down low" the PW2200 combo wouldn't measure up. Tom thankfully clarified this. The Paradigm IS a great sub, one of the very few in the same ballpark cost/performance-wise with us IMO. For the uninitiated though, the difference of 7dB at 20Hz is huge. A VERY wide gap in the low bass arena that 20Hz represents. We don't claim 20Hz is the MOST significant band to have great HT bass performance, but when it's there on a DVD, we're talking about a major jump in bass impact/feel.
    Gruson,
    Short of a bad sub, or a glitch in setup (which I think we dispensed with, it's been a while), you are one of the few returns we've had that continues to mystify us. Preferring two PW2200s over two SVS 20-39CS's is not something we'd have trouble understanding. But ONE PW-2200 v. TWIN CS subs? Only some tentative explanations are possible. Your preference is the ONLY thing that matters in the end, even if it defys all logic, objective measures, and the collective experience we've gotten from selling as many subs as we have.
    Given the two brands of subs have (very roughly) similar performance (except for much better low bass performance for the SVS mentioned above), your experience is about the same as discovering one SVS sounds better than two (virually impossible if calibrated correctly and set up right too).
    We just can't get our arms around it (not that it matters much to you, or maybe anyone else but the guys that sweat every aspect of bass performance at SVS ;^). The ONLY thing that washes, (and it is a unique, psychoacoustical property we've seen expressed now and again) is that in some cases, with some listeners, a sub can "seem" to have more mid-bass "punch" when low bass is stipped away. Thus, the more common 30-35Hz bass of any given DVD might be more prominent/pleasing when not counterbalanced (or otherwise complimented) by more or less equal levels of 20-25Hz bass. This will only be evident in near side-by-side comparisons, but if I had to guess it might be the reason the single PW-2200 sounded better to you. In the end you got better sound (at least for your ears) for less money. I would have done the same thing (that is, return the SVS twins) if that was the case. We don't pretend that objective measurements explain everything, but the lower levels of PW-2200 bass performance is the only thing that makes sense in this post mortem.
    Ron
     
  19. Don O'Brien

    Don O'Brien Stunt Coordinator

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    Not to lead the thread astray, but having read over 10 reviews recently on the Servo 15 I would say that TN's review in Video lacks some of the detail of his normal SW reviews because he was reviewing an entire home theater system (Active 20s, Active CC450, ADP450s and Servo15).
    As TV states above-he states an average from 25-63 at 107.3dbSPL in a 7500 cubic foot room (was the article incorrect in indicating 5700 cuft?) I believe that having the same reviewer perform the tests is very helpful, but I believe a review was done by DB Keele of the now defunct Audio Magazine adds to the information about the Servo 15 down low.
    On axis Anechoic measurements of the servo 15 were taken with the following results (the limiter prevented further output in all cases, but distortion did not change)
    (the graphs are not available on the Paradigm site)
    20hz-98dbSPL-9% distortion
    25hz-6.8% distortion no ouput given
    40hz-110dbSPL-
     
  20. Earl_C

    Earl_C Agent

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    Ron,
    I hear you. I've been actually considering your subs for a while now and I don't want two(no room) and I figured one was just a wash. But I think some time within the next 9 months I'll go for a single Ultra. I just waiting to jump on a good deal for a used mono-block(maybe 7B-ST). What grade of amp and wattage do you recommend(other than your own of course)?
     

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