Paradigm Active 40's vs Def Tech BP 2002's.

Discussion in 'Archived Threads 2001-2004' started by Ken Lopata, Nov 10, 2001.

  1. Ken Lopata

    Ken Lopata Agent

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    I now have Def Tech BP 2002's. I have a dual Stryke HE15 sub with a Crown K2 amp that handles everything below 60hz. I've read a couple reviews that rave about the Paradigm Active 40's. Both reviews come to the same conclusion. These speakers are misunderstood jewels in the speaker world. They both say that having amps specifically built at line level for specific drivers is a better way of going. They say these speakers easily compare to speakers costing 2-4,000/pair and that's not including the amps you still need. Each speaker in essence has it's own monoblock amp. I'm thinking of upgrading from the 2002's to the Active 40's in the front and 3 rears. What do you think. Thanks.
    Ken
     
  2. Bob_A

    Bob_A Supporting Actor

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    Is there anything about the 2002's which you do not find satisfying?
    If you have the room, consider getting some 2000TL's up front, and then use the 2002's in the rear. The 2000TL's are wonderful, wonderful speakers.
    I have seen several accounts where the 2000TL's have been compared favorably to the Nautilus 802's (8k/pair). Look at:
    http://forums.consumerreview.com/crf...ouJ^[email protected]
    http://www.audioreview.com/reviews/S...uct_7146.shtml
    http://www.audioreview.com/reviews/S...uct_8728.shtml
    Of course, a setup of all Active Paradigms would probably be great as well. But comparing Def Tech to Paradigm is apples to oranges in a sense, because you are comparing bipolars to direct radiators.
    Still, IMHO either way you can't lose!
     
  3. Ron Alcasid

    Ron Alcasid Stunt Coordinator

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    Correct me if I'm wrong but isn't the the 2002 a tower w/built-in subwoofer? The rest of the drivers are driven by an external amp/receiver. The Active 40 is a fully active speaker, meaning all the drivers are driven by internal amplifiers. So in a sense they are not really comparable designs.
    Can you live with the inability to "upgrade" the built-in amplifiers in the Active 40s? That is a choice you have now with the 2002s, at least with the tweeters and midrange drivers. With a pair of 40s you essentially get 4 monoblock amps, 2 x 50 watt amps for the tweeters plus 2 x 125 watt amps for the midbass drivers. Plus you get the benefit of line level crossovers.
    All that for about $2000 sounds like a great deal but the trade off is you can't change the speakers and amps independently. Which seems to be a major sticking point for a lot of hometheater enthusiasts, who constantly upgrade their systems. Prehaps that is why there are rumors Paradigm is going to discontinue the Active line. Which is a real shame IMHO because active speakers make more sense than passive speakers from a pure engineering perspective.
    [Edited last by Ron Alcasid on November 10, 2001 at 05:35 PM]
     
  4. Hubert

    Hubert Second Unit

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    Yep, the 2002s and the Paradigms are not similar. They really cannot be compared. My question is do the 2002s not satisfy you anymore? Or do you just have a desire to upgrade? I wouldn't call going from a 2002 to an Active-40 an upgrade. It's more of a lateral move from one type of speaker to an entirely different type of speaker. Also, do you have a receiver or an amp? If so, with the Active-40, one of those is going to go to waste. I personally don't see any point in getting the Active 40s, unless you didn't have a receiver or an amp. But if you've already got those, why waste the money on a speaker that doesn't need them?
     
  5. Kevin C Brown

    Kevin C Brown Producer

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    Hmmm... I have Def Tech all around. And if I could afford it, I would go with the Paradigm Active series. They are reviewed *very* highly.
    Just don't know if I could live without being able to appreciate the 2 Acurus A2003's I currently have... [​IMG]
    BTW, one advantage of active speakers, is that the internal amplifier characteristics are designed with that specific speaker in mind. Impedance, phase, crossovers, etc. When separate speakers and amps are designed without the knowledge of the other, I sort of think that there are built in, necessary, compromises.
    I would guarentee you this: Paradigm Active speakers have very flat freq response. Usually +/1 dB in the range of specification. Much "flatter" than most other speakers out there. Including any Def Techs...
    ------------------
     
  6. Bob_A

    Bob_A Supporting Actor

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  7. Sania M

    Sania M Agent

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    Bob_A,
    I have been reading your posts on the higher end Def Tech line and went to audition them and they were good speakers. I liked them, but I prefered the Active 40's by a wide margin. Yes, you are shocked. That is my opinion. Now I didn't get to compare 5 to 5 of the other, but as you commented before it is comparing apples to oranges and I can see how bipolar speakers would sound different in such situation. I have noticed you are a very strong proponent of the Def Tech line and kudos to you b/c you are very familiar w/ it's attributes, but don't be so shocked if people like other speakers. It may be because their tastes are not as refined as yours or vice versa or it might just be... they have different tastes. The Active 40's in my eyes are value loaded far beyond the DT line. I prefer the performance too, but that's more where the subjective part comes in. And I already know someone is going to attack my value loaded statement.
     
  8. Hubert

    Hubert Second Unit

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    I don't think anyone faults anyone for liking a particular speaker. Sound is subjective. But for every glowing Paradigm review, I can show you 3 glowing Def Tech reviews. However, we're talking about two entirely different speaker. One sattelite and one tower. However, I've never been a big proponent of internally amplified speaker, mainly because I've never heard one I liked. I just feel I can by a seperate amp that is better than any internal speaker amp.
    For value, I paid around $330 for my BP3000s and I got two 18" subs. Two subs amps, and two top of the line biplor towers. I call that an extremely good value. My previous two M&K MX-300 subs cost more than that, and after paying that I still didn't have any speakers. But I do know people that don't like bipolar speakers, and that's fine with me. To each his own. But you can compare an Active-40 with a tower speaker. Two entirely different things.
     
  9. Hubert

    Hubert Second Unit

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    "They say these speakers easily compare to speakers costing 2-4,000/pair and that's not including the amps you still need."
    A lot of reviews say that Ken. Every Def Tech review I've ever read says that. My advice is if you're not satisfied with the Def Techs, get something other than an internally amplified speaker. I believe you can do better by buying an external amp and speaker. But that's just me. Never been fond of internally amplified speakers.
     
  10. Bob_A

    Bob_A Supporting Actor

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    quote: I have been reading your posts on the higher end Def Tech line and went to audition them and they were good speakers. I liked them, but I prefered the Active 40's by a wide margin. Yes, you are shocked.[/quote]
    No I am NOT shocked because rarely have I had a great audition with DT speakers in a dealer showroom. You MUST live with the DT's to "optimize" their sound. Did you hear a set of 2000TL's? What was the associated equipment (receiver/amp, cd player, cables)? Were the speakers wired "full range" in the bass? Were they bi/triwired? Were the cables cluttered at all? How much spacing in between the speakers, to the rear, to the sides? Were the subs firing outward or inward? What was the degree of toe in? Did you adjust the bass levels at the back of the speaker? What were the room dimensions/characteristics? Set them up well and you might be shocked at how musical the 2000TL's can be...just ask those guys who compared them to N802's.
    Now, I didn't mean to imply that (5) bp2000TL's would totally outclass (5) Active 40's. But for strictly a HT setup, and comparing only loudspeakers to loudspeakers, you might see where the DT's have an advantage. The bipolar powered tower design gives the DT's tremendous power handling (since each speaker has 7 drivers including the built in powered sub) and very deep response (-3db at 23Hz for the older bp2000). Of course, this high expected performance level for the DT's is assuming that they are given plenty of room all around to breathe (ie. not used in a relatively small room).
    quote: The Active 40's in my eyes are value loaded far beyond the DT line.[/quote]
    What do you base this statement on? A quick dealer audition?
    [Edited last by Bob_A on November 10, 2001 at 04:28 PM]
    [Edited last by Bob_A on November 10, 2001 at 04:30 PM]
    [Edited last by Bob_A on November 10, 2001 at 04:32 PM]
     
  11. Ken Lopata

    Ken Lopata Agent

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    Thanks for the replies.
    I have this need to upgrade. I think the sub in Def Techs are a waste. My home theater came alive when I got a Paradigm Servo 15. Don't let anyone tell you built in subs replace a dedicated stand alone sub. There is no comparison. I do listen to H.T. 80/20 compared to music. That's why I like the Def Techs. With my dual Stryke HE15 sub/Crown K2 amp, I feel the sub in the Def Techs are not needed. Are the Active 40's going to give me a more refined accurate sound for H.T. and SACD/DVD Audio. I was planning on using 3 Active 40's for the rears, two in the front along with an Active CC.
    I now have separates. An ATI 1505 and Sony TA-E9000ES ver 2.1. I can sell these to a friend for 2,000 plus 2500 more for the BP 2000's, CLR 2000 and BP2X and Paradigm Servo 15. All in new shape. I was then going to buy either the new Anthem AVM 20, Cinepro's new pre/pro, or the Tag's AVR 32.
    Since I like the Bipolar sound for H.T. maybe I should look at Von Schweikert speakers. I hear they are awesome.
    What's a guy to do. I just want to spend some money.
    Ken
     
  12. Bob_A

    Bob_A Supporting Actor

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    quote: I think the sub in Def Techs are a waste. My home theater came alive when I got a Paradigm Servo 15. Don't let anyone tell you built in subs replace a dedicated stand alone sub. There is no comparison.[/quote]
    I do not think anyone is questioning that a quality dedicated external sub will outperform a built in sub. But built in subs do have some advantages. See http://www.hometheaterforum.com/uub/...ML/044540.html for more info.
    Have you tried crossing the powered towers over at, say, 40Hz...and then letting the external subs handle the rest?
    quote: I now have separates. An ATI 1505 and Sony TA-E9000ES ver 2.1. I can sell these to a friend for 2,000 plus 2500 more for the BP 2000's, CLR 2000 and BP2X and Paradigm Servo 15. All in new shape. I was then going to buy either the new Anthem AVM 20, Cinepro's new pre/pro, or the Tag's AVR 32.[/quote]
    Do you have the bp2000's or bp2002's? Have you listened to the newer bp2000TL's with well-matching associated equipment? Look at Parasound, Macintosh, Bryston, Yamaha, B&K for some good matches.
    quote: Since I like the Bipolar sound for H.T. maybe I should look at Von Schweikert speakers. I hear they are awesome.[/quote]
    I am sure they are nice. But if you like bipolar, what do you find deficient about Def Tech? For 80 percent HT/20 percent music, you owe it to yourself to check out some bp2000TL's. I have found that they are just as nice with music as with movies. As I said before, they have been favorably compared to N802's. Let me know if you need any setup tips.
    [Edited last by Bob_A on November 10, 2001 at 05:02 PM]
     
  13. Ken Lopata

    Ken Lopata Agent

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    I have BP 2002's, CLR 2000 and BP2X for surrounds. My room is 25 x 18 x 8.
    Thanks, Ken
     
  14. MatthewJ S

    MatthewJ S Supporting Actor

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    are many speakers flat to one full octave below 40hz?
     
  15. Kevin C Brown

    Kevin C Brown Producer

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    Hubert- Active 40's are not satellites.
    ------------------
     
  16. Ron Alcasid

    Ron Alcasid Stunt Coordinator

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    Why are powered subs universally accepted yet the concept of active speakers really turn some people off? Someone mentioned earlier when matched with "good amplification", passive speakers can rival active speakers. I totally agree with this statement and have no doubt it can be done. However, how would the average consumer know which speakers would match what amplifier? Ocassionally in these forums you'll see a post titled "How does speaker X sound with amp Y?" So it obvious the speaker/amp combination is very important to us. It makes sense to me at least, the engineers that designed the speakers would have a better understanding what amplification would be appropriate for each driver. Active speakers completely embrace this idea yet they remain an unpopular choice among consumers. It really seems contradictary to me. It's also intersting to note active speakers are completely accepted in the pro audio space and probably the prefered choice.
    [Edited last by Ron Alcasid on November 11, 2001 at 11:41 AM]
     
  17. MatthewJ S

    MatthewJ S Supporting Actor

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    again,I ask, are any powered towers capable of flat response down to one full octave below 40hz...Bob_A?
     
  18. Bob_A

    Bob_A Supporting Actor

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    Kevin, I do not see anywhere where Hubert referred to them as "satellites". But then again, I can tell you that Hubert's tower did cost more than $330 [​IMG]
    Ron, I have no problems with the "Active" concept...matching equipment with speakers can be a tedious process.
     
  19. Bhagi Katbamna

    Bhagi Katbamna Supporting Actor

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    One octave below 40 Hz would be 20 Hz(I think).
     
  20. Bob_A

    Bob_A Supporting Actor

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    Thank you Bhagi. The bp3000TL's are apparently -3db at 20Hz (or maybe slightly below). The bp2000TL's are not too far off. I doubt these speakers are flat to 20Hz, but I wonder if there are even too many external subs out there which are flat to 20Hz...but I know one person who crosses the 3000TL's are 30-35 Hz with excellent results, and I know another person who crosses the 2000TL's at 40Hz with excellent results.
     

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