Panny rp-82 and DVD-Audio

Discussion in 'Archived Threads 2001-2004' started by Steve_Han, Jan 4, 2003.

  1. Steve_Han

    Steve_Han Extra

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    Just had a RP-82 for about 3 weeks now. Trying to experiment with DVD-Audio. Only have one disc now (Rumours- fleetwood mac, probably not a great disc to experiment with).

    Before I had a 5.1 input receiver to get the music in 5.1 I had to switch DVD-Video mode to ON (last menu) for it to play in 5.1

    After I bought 5.1 input receiver I was excited to hear true DVD-A but was dissapointed. First I realized that to hear true DVD-A, I have to switch DVD-Video mode to OFF (which is default anyways) but made comparison of true DVD-A with regular DD 5.1 difficult. Second, it seems as if regular DD 5.1 was slightly better or the same. The bass output of DVD-Audio through 5.1 channel input lacked bass output. I even turned up the SW setting on the RP-82 to +6 and still was only able to get it close to bass output of going DD 5.1 via coaxial.

    What gives?
    I have a yamaha RX-V1300. COuld it be that the 192-bit DAC of the receiver is so much better than the panny that sound is still better despite less resolution of music source?

    And why such low bass output?
    Or is there something wrong with the subwoofer input portion of the receiver?

    Is this what Denon fans have been complaining about with RP-82?
     
  2. John Kotches

    John Kotches Cinematographer

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    Several things going on here:


    First, you have to calibrate the analog output of the RP-82, to make sure your levels match.

    Second, DD / DTS have bass management and time alignment via your receiver. The RP-82s DVD-A analog output has neither. Uf your speakers don't handle much below 80Hz, you're losing any information in the main channels that isn't getting transferred over to your subwoofer.

    These are starting points.

    Hope this helps get you down the right path. The real solution, is to purchase the ICBM if the 2nd item is some of your cause of woes.

    Regards,
     
  3. Steve_Han

    Steve_Han Extra

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    I have turned the swfr level on the rp82 to +6 and it is only close but doesn't match swfr level of DD5.1 which is at 0 or -1 on my receiver.
     
  4. MikeSRC

    MikeSRC Second Unit

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    As John said, adjusting the subwoofer (or any speaker level) on the RP-82 does nothing for DVD-A. Those settings only work with the DD and DTS analog outputs.
     
  5. Mark All

    Mark All Second Unit

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    Hi Steve,
    You've encountered one of the frustrations people seem to have with DVD-A. If you don't have full range speakers in all four corners or don't have full bass management capability you can't get the full enjoyment intended from the recordings in DVD-A format. Unfortunately, users who have to rely on a subwoofer either have to spend more on a DVD player or receiver to get bass management or spend a couple hundred bucks extra to get an ICBM from Outlaw Audio. The 5.1 digital format may sound better to you. It's not advanced resolution, but it is a different experience from regular 2-channel audio. There's nothing wrong with the RP82; it's just not doing something it's wasn't designed to do.

    In my opinion, although Rumours was one of the first DVD-A discs issued, it is one of the best to use to see what the format and DVD-A players in general can do. The original recordings of the Fleetwood Mac band members were mostly superb and the remix seems to be done with a great deal of attention to making the format fit each song individually. They also added Silver Spring, which to me is worth the price of the disc in itself. And, the format gives me a whole new appreciation for Mick's drumming (meaning the low frequencies are there, you just have to get at them some way).
     
  6. Dan Joy

    Dan Joy Supporting Actor

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    Steve,
    I have the RP-82 and the Rumours DVDA. At low volumes, it sounds great. At high volume, it sound sweet with awesome bass and kick in the chest drums. I have very little to complain about.
     
  7. Greg Yeatts

    Greg Yeatts Second Unit

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    I don't know about the RP82, but the Panny CP72 I have has bass management, level adjustment for all channels and time delay for all the channels when you use the analog outputs on the Panny. I know the RP82 and CP72 are supposed to be similar. The crossover is fixed rather high, at 100 hertz, but it beats nothin'.
     
  8. MikeSRC

    MikeSRC Second Unit

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    I'm afraid the adjustments on the CP-72 do not work with DVD-A either. I know the manual says it works with the analog outputs, which it does, but only with the DD and DTS output.
     
  9. KeithH

    KeithH Lead Actor

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    Steve, I agree with the others here regarding Rumours in that I feel it is a great disc for demoing DVD-Audio. The stereo track is noticeably better than the CD.

    Regarding bass management, I have a Technics DVD-A10 DVD-Audio player with no bass management and have it paired with bookshelf speakers that are rated down to 50 Hz and a center speaker that is rated down to 60 Hz. This is obviously not a bassy set-up, but I still greatly prefer surround-sound DVD-Audio to Dolby Digital or DTS. I have never had a desire to add an ICBM. Would an ICBM yield an improvement in my system? Perhaps, but I still have no desire to get one.
     
  10. Michael Hartwig

    Michael Hartwig Stunt Coordinator

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    Keith
    If your speakers are rated down to 50Hz, they probably roll-off much higher. I have a brother that has the Paradigm Ref 80's and no sub. He listens mostly to classical. He thought a sub would not offer him much in his system and taste of music. Well was he in for a surprise when he listened to his classical music in my system that has a sub. He immediately commented on how much fuller the music sounded with the input of the sub.
    He is now having me build the Tempest sub (same as mine) to put into his system.
    I would seriously reconsider your thoughts about a subwoofer.
     
  11. Doug_B

    Doug_B Screenwriter

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  12. Kevin Nolan

    Kevin Nolan Stunt Coordinator

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    I also have the Panny 72 and this is my expereince.
    I have a Onk that has a onboard DD decoder the 72 has a onboard DTS decoder...perfect I don't need to upgrade my receiver for DTS.
    When calibrating the "multi-speaker" output on the 72 I can only adjust the center and surrounds...no adjustment for the left and right fronts or Sub.
    I thought this is a DTS thing although the on-screen shows adjustment for the SUB it skips the opportunity to do so.
    The first DTS disc we listened to was Eagles HFO which we were only able to enjoy in stereo PCM the DTS mix blew us both away so that's fine.
    But what I'm wondering is about the cal feature why can't I adjust the L/R fronts and the Sub.
    FYI DD optical DTS analog into the ONK set to Multi Channel.
    Love this unit just want to make sure nothing is askew with this player.
    Kevin
     
  13. MikeSRC

    MikeSRC Second Unit

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    Are you talking about delay time or channel level?

    Delay time can only be adjusted for the center and the surrounds, but level settings should be available for all (using the player's test tones).
     
  14. Justin Lane

    Justin Lane Cinematographer

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  15. John Kotches

    John Kotches Cinematographer

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    Justin,

    Correct. You level match to Front L/R.

    I would stay away from Optimode for subwoofer calibration, as this tests DD/DTS decoding, not DVD-A decoding.

    Regards,
     
  16. Steve_Han

    Steve_Han Extra

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    It seems to me that adjusting levels on Rp82 does make a difference just not enough. I have sub at +6 it's definitely better than 0 but not the same as DD at 0.

    Maybe just my imagination.

    I don't disagree that rumours is a good test disc. I guess I figured that since it is not a recent release, that the extra resolution isn't that much. Glad you guys think that was a good 1st disc to buy.
     
  17. Dan Joy

    Dan Joy Supporting Actor

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  18. John Kotches

    John Kotches Cinematographer

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    Dan,
    I'm sure you meant 24bit/48K [​IMG]
    Also, I would much rather titles be released at original sampling rates than be homogenized through sample rate conversion.
    Regards,
     
  19. Kevin Nolan

    Kevin Nolan Stunt Coordinator

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    MikeSRC
    I cannot adjust L/R Fronts no option appears as far as the Sub the option is there but it skips it. I have found no way to adjust the delay time....I will RTFM again...I have a penchant for glancing over things some times.
    Thanks Mike!
     
  20. Dan Joy

    Dan Joy Supporting Actor

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