Panasonic E60

Discussion in 'Playback Devices' started by RyanPitt, Jan 21, 2004.

  1. RyanPitt

    RyanPitt Auditioning

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    Hi Everyone, First time posting here. Vry informative. I was just wondering if anyone had purchased the Panny E60?? Impressions. Anything.

    I am struggling between that one, The E80, and the Pioneer 510HS. Only problem is I can get great deals on the Pansonic but not the pioneer.

    Any advise would be appreciated.

    Ryan
     
  2. RyanPitt

    RyanPitt Auditioning

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    Is there any place that shows compatibility between DV camcorders and the E60? I have a Panasonic DV2000-K and am just wondering if the Fire Wire connection will work??

    Thanks again
     
  3. Michael Reuben

    Michael Reuben Studio Mogul

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    Welcome to HTF! If you want to post follow-up questions to an existing thread, please post them in the thread. Or better yet, use the "edit" function to add them to your existing message.

    I've combined your two threads.

    M.
     
  4. DerrickHo

    DerrickHo Auditioning

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    Hello Ryan,

    I have just recently purchased the panny E60...

    So far I Love It!
    I have timer recorded a few programs from my comcast digital cable onto DVD-RAM, and the quality has been very watchable(especially in XP,SP and LP modes)in fact, I am hard pressed to tell the difference from the original when viewing playback from the XP mode.
    I specifically bought this model for transferring my mini DV video(camcorder is a Samsung SCD27) to DVD-R via firewire. (I didn't need the models with the hard drives,because I dont record that many programs).Unfortunately, I have not downloaded anything from mini DV yet.
    Other than that the operation is simple, the manual is fairly detailed, and the unit itself seems pretty solid and so far reliable.

    Derrick
     
  5. Thomas Brown

    Thomas Brown Extra

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    I don't think you can compare the Pany E-60 and E-80. Only one has a HDD as I recall.
     
  6. Scott Dautel

    Scott Dautel Second Unit

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    I've had the Panny E60 since July ...
    I chose this one since it had the front panel FireWire port and I thought I would be doing lots of home video transfer to DVD. I didn't have a digital camcorder, but got the Panasonic PV-DV203 mini-DV for Christmas.

    I guess I have mixed feelings about the E60 DVD recorder. It does a respectable job making DVD-R's, but I would not recommend anything lower than the SP mode (2 hrs). If I had to do it again, I wold probably go for the E-100, which hass the HDD and FireWire (iEEE 1394). The HDD is really a benefit since it's really the only way to archive broadcast recordings with commercial edited out. There is no practical way to do this with the E60.

    My 2nd gripe is re mini-DV camcorder transfer ... so far I can't find a way to do a true D-D transfer of mini-DV camcorder material (even with my new Panny camcorder, which should be a slam-dunk, right?). Every time I set up a DV transfer, the E60 asks me to set the recording mode. This means it is adjusting the mpeg compression bitrate, thus NOT a bit-for-bit copy. This really pisses me off since the lit on the E60 says you CAN do direct digital transfers and editing in the camcorder on the fly, driven by the E60. So far ... not even close to true. Panny TS doesn't even have an answer for this yet.

    Also be aware that you can't add chapter stops to recorded material. There is just no way to do it. Every segment you record is a "title".

    The good news with the E60 is that I have had ZERO recording failures and recorded disks play just about everywhere (car, laptop, other DVD players, Pioneer portable, etc.) I wish I had a basic PAnny DVD player upstairs to play recorded DVD-RAM discs ... the format is great, simple and re-useable, but not many players handle DVD-RAM.

    Scott
     
  7. RyanPitt

    RyanPitt Auditioning

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    Well by the sounds of it I wont be able to get the E60 anyways. Its backordered all across Canada. Only one availablie is the E80 and E100. Do you think the firewire is important?? Or if i use SVHS will it be almost as good?? Reason being is I can get the E80 for 900.00 CAD the E100 is all the way up at 1400.00 CAD. I would really like to keep it under a grand.

    Any advise.

    Ryan
     
  8. Scott Dautel

    Scott Dautel Second Unit

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    When you have an internal HDD, the firewire port is less important. Reason being ... you can transfer home video via s-video to HDD, then do your editing on the HDD and finally master the editied video to DVD-R without losing anything from the HDD version.

    Go for the E80.

    Scott
     
  9. MarkHastings

    MarkHastings Executive Producer

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    The only gripe I have with my E60 is there is no 'zoom' function. Also, there's no subtitle or angle button on the remote, you need to bring up the DVD players on screen menu and navigate to the correct menu. It's not too difficult, but it just makes things a little slower to do...especially when you want to switch things back and forth (i.e the on screen menus get in the way). But other than that, the recording to DVD-RAM is excellent.

    I have a DVD-RAM player in my PC and it's much easier (and smaller) to capture my DV footage onto the E60 as MPEG2 streams (and then just transferring them to the PC) rather than capturing the larger DV files on my PC.

    Although there is a few things you need to do in order to not run into major headaches when you take this approach, but as long as you follow them, you're ok.
     
  10. Rob Mac

    Rob Mac Stunt Coordinator

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    The Panasonics without HD have an edit function where a commercial or unwanted segment can be erased. Has anyone tried this function on a DVD-R disc? After disc is finalized, does the program play skipping the erased bits seamlessly? Also, exactly how bad does a program recorded at 3-4 hour speeds look? If you were dubbing a laserdisc that was between 2 and 3 hours long, using Flex Record, at what length would you be pushing it quality wise?
     
  11. RyanPitt

    RyanPitt Auditioning

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    Thanks for all the input guys. My E60 finally came in last week and I honestly think it is probably the coolest toy I have ever got. Its simple to use..no errors on any disks yet.

    Thanks a lot

    Ryan
     
  12. Scott Dautel

    Scott Dautel Second Unit

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    Ryan:
    Happy to hear that you are pleased with your purchase. Let me know how you make out with digital transfer of digital comcorder material. IF you find a way to do a direct digital transfer to DVD-R (without being forced to choose recoding mode), I want to hear about it!

    Rob Mac ... the edit feature you refer to only works for DVD-RAM format, never DVD-R. Ref pg. 30 of DMR-E60 manual; at the top of the page you'll note a little "RAM" box, indicating DVD-RAM only.

    Scott Dautel
     
  13. Rob Mac

    Rob Mac Stunt Coordinator

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    My E50 manual says on page 32 that DVD-ram and DVD-R can be erased BUT the DVD-R erased section can not be re-recorded on. "The available recording time on DVD-R does not increase when you erase programs."
     
  14. MarkHastings

    MarkHastings Executive Producer

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    It sounds like more of an 'ignore' than an 'erase'.
     
  15. Scott Dautel

    Scott Dautel Second Unit

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    Rob:

    OK .. I went back and studied the E60 manual (I keep a PDF of all recent owners manuals on my work/travel laptop ... how geeky is that [​IMG] )

    I have the same statements in the E60 manual that you mention from your E50 (no surprise). If I get this right, it says that for DVD-R, you can erase programs (i.e. titles). For example ... lets say you put 8 Seinfeld eps on 1 DVD-R (my current hobby). You can erase any or all of the individual episodes, assuming they were originally created as individual titles, by stopping the recording process between eps. BUT ... you CAN'T go in to an individual episode and "erase" commercials. Mark is right this is really more like "ignore titles"

    NOW ... for RAM, its a little different & you have 2 additional options. It appears you can actually "edit out" commercials. The manual refers to this as the "shorten segment" feature. It actually involves creating a playlist within a DVD-RAM recording, then instructing the playback to skip certain playlist components (i.e. the commercials breaks). You can also "divide program", which means break one toriginal title into 2 or more new titles (again, this is RAM only and irreversible).

    Tonight, it'll be experiment time.

    Scott
     
  16. Rob Mac

    Rob Mac Stunt Coordinator

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    If it was a simple "ignore" you would think that it could be reversed (like programming a cd player to skip a track) but it claims to be irretrievable. Try playing the disc on another player and see how it plays over the erased segment.
     
  17. MarkHastings

    MarkHastings Executive Producer

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    I would think it has to do with the TOC that gets burned in the finalization. This would explain why the RAM disc has other options since it doesn't actually "finalize" the disc (i.e. no TOC).
     
  18. RyanPitt

    RyanPitt Auditioning

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    Thanks for all the posts boys. Has anyone noticed that the quality of the recordings look great on the Pany and then it loses something when you finalize it and put it in another DVD player. I am trying it in my Sony NS715P. Still looks really good just not "as" good.

    I need some advice. So I dont have to buy any more mini dv tapes I am going to start the process of transferring all of the tapes over to DVD's. Should I use RAM or DVD-R? I know it doesnt keep any info like date and time anyways (which sucks) so should it really matter which ones? In the futre I will probably want to put them on my computer (whenever I get a new one) and edit them there but I just want a good archive copy of my stuff.

    Thanks again

    Ryan
     
  19. MarkHastings

    MarkHastings Executive Producer

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    Well, DVD-R would be cheaper..And I'm not positive on this, but I'd check the shelf life of recorded material on a DVD-RAM. I never looked this up, but it would seem to me that any rewrittable media wouldn't hold up to the test of time. Mainly because the grooves aren't burned as deep as with a DVD-R. And to the fact that the reason a DVD-RAM (or RW) can be erased is the metal is heated to the point that the grooves melt into a smooth surface again. I'd be cautious about leaving anything on a DVD-RAM for a long period of time.

    But again, this is all an educated guess on my part.

    p.s. Why wouldn't you want to hold onto the DV tapes? Afraid of them getting erased? Or do you want to reuse them? I'd invest the money and buy new ones rather than reusing them (if that's the case).
     
  20. Scott Dautel

    Scott Dautel Second Unit

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    DONT ARCHIVE TO DVD-RAM. Mark is spot-on right. rewritable media doesn't have long term archival reliability. DVD-R is much more "permanent".

    Now ... about those DV tapes. My feeling is that I'm hanging on the original tapes, at least until I make a bit-for-bit copy to DVD. As I've griped about numerous times in the past, the Panny recorders are NOT doing this. they are performing some type of re-encoding of the data. I'm still trying to finad out if all the re-encoding is done in the digital domain, or if it goes througs a D-A-D step (which would really be unacceptable). Regardless if you use your PC today to transfer Mini-DV material, I'm fairly certain you can bet a bit-for-bit D-D dub.

    Scott
     

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