Panasonic 47 inch Television experience (1 Viewer)

[David A. Frattaroli]

I've found this thread interesting for a number of reasons.
1. I own a Toshiba TW40H80. For those of you who are new to HT, this was the 2nd generation 40" 16:9 set offered by Toshiba. It replaced the TW40F80. It is a non-progressive scan set. I feed it through it's component video inputs and still, to this day, has one of the most pleasing images I've ever seen. Certainly on an NTSC set.
2. I've had my set ISF calibrated.
3. I'm going to replace it at the end of the year with either another 16x9 HDTV set or a front projector.
4. I considered the Panasonic.
Firstly, I must agree with Michael_TLV that most of the complaints David has with the Panasonic are attributable to ANY tv set on the market. It's up to you if you can live with it in the end.
Secondly, you can NEVER buy a set based on how one looks in a store. NEVER. I bought my TW40 from www.onecall.com sight-unseen. I never even saw one on display. I bought it based on reviews and reviews alone.
Thirdly, cable feeds suck. No tv can help that no matter what you spend on it.
Fourthly, if you're enough of an enthusiast to buy a 16x9 set, you should absolutely consider an ISF calibration for it.
And finally, just because a piece of equipment is heavy, doesn't mean it's built well. Metal and wood are heavy. Even when you put them together is a piss-poor manner.
Based on what I've read hear, I may not even look at a Panasonic. In any case I've been leaning toward a DLP front projector. Good ones can be had for $3-$4k. Very comparable to the larger HD RPTVs.
Good luck, all.

 

[KevinO]

Here's a couple of more questions:
1) I'm not that familiar with HD RPTV's, but from what I've read, it seems that all (almost all?) of these sets don't look very good when watching OTA/DBS/Cable. Is this not the case. For me, those sources aren't relevant. I plan to watch DVDs only on this set (35" Direct view is downstairs)
2) How does this set look when watching full-screen, older movies in 4:3. I know the unused space is white. Is it simply a matter of creating mattes for the left and right sides of the screen?
Dave G., thanks for posting your experience. Given that I plan to watch DVDs only, it seems this set may be for me.
Thanks again!

 

[Carlo_M]

Kevin,
1. Yes cable looks uniformly bad on HD-ready sets. Some line doublers are better at converting cable than others, but it's still not very good. The PT-47 is pretty darned good with DVD (or better) source material.
2. If you don't have an RP91 (or another DVD player which scales non-anamorphic discs) then 4:3 material will have those gray/white bars. However using the RP91 in progressive mode, it puts black bars on the sides of 4:3 images. You can make mattes for the gray bars.
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Editorial note: I freely admit, if I had more money I would have bought a Mits or a Pioneer Elite. Hell, I'd buy a Runco projector if I could! But if you're in that market, you shouldn't even be looking at the PT-47. If you can afford more, then by all means buy it!
I was under the impression that people who are looking at this set are under a tight budget, like I was. I still stand by the assertion that at the price this set can be had (sub-$1800 on the 'net or a friendly local dealer) that it is one of the best values out there, especially if you're willing to put in some under-the-hood work. If you can spring for the $3000 Mits or $3500-5000 for the Elites, more power to you!

 

[KevinO]

Carlo, thanks. I didn't realize the RP91 would do that with 4:3 as well. Does this mean I won't have to worry about burn-in if I use the RP91 for 4:3 DVDs?

 

[Matt_Stevens]

If properlty calibrated AND if 4:3 material is less than 30% of your viewing, no way it should.

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www.deceptions.net/superman

 

[Andrew Beacom]

>>I was under the impression that people who are looking at this set are under a tight budget, like I was. I still stand by the assertion that at the price this set can be had (sub-$1800 on the 'net or a friendly local dealer) that it is one of the best values out there, especially if you're willing to put in some under-the-hood work. If you can spring for the $3000 Mits or $3500-5000 for the Elites, more power to you

 

[KevinO]

My current DVD player doesn't have component out. Will DVDs still look good using S-video, while I wait to get a new RP91?

 

[Dave Gogebic]

The Panasonic RP-91 Progressive Scan DVD player will internally convert 4:3 DVD's to 16:9 format without the need for side bars on the TV. It also does a very good job of this with almost no perceptible distortion.
I would consider the Pannasonic 47 16:9 set if all I was going to watch was DVD's - in this case it is a very good value and has a stunning picture. I've never seen one better - Then again I haven't seen the RP-91 in action on the Mits I have coming yet either.
My opinion of price vs. "value" is - it doesn't matter what something costs if the TV has a terrible picture - it's a bad "value". If the set isn't built well and won't last very long - it doesn't matter how much you saved on it - it's a bad "value". If you have to spend countless hours tweaking a set - spend $500 on ISF calibrations, etc. - I question that it is a good "value". Then again - if your time isn't worth anything - go for it. Then again - if you like tweaking with stuff - go for it...it just might be a good "value" for you.
For me - I believe in buying quality - most Panasonic electronics are quality - in my opinion this set was built with way too many compromises.
Good luck....
[Edited last by Dave Gogebic on August 01, 2001 at 06:24 PM]

 

[Carlo_M]

Dave I agree with most of what you said.
This set is a value and a good performer to me because, since I don't watch cable except for sports, I don't see the weaknesses of the set that you see. Using my RP91 I can't ask for a better picture for something under $2500 (and I paid considerably less than the $2000 MSRP on this set). If you were in So-Cal I'd invite you to take a look.
And it's not that my time isn't worth anything to me. But I count the time spent calibrating (about 12-15 hours now) as time learning something that I am interested in. It's like learning how to fix your own guitar. I'm not trying to save money from the repair shop, I'm learning to do it myself. This isn't the last TV, or guitar, that I'm going to own. So this is like free "training" for me, rather than paying for TV repair classes.
The above reasons, more than anything, probably explains our differing views on this set.
[Edited last by Carlo Medina on August 01, 2001 at 03:09 PM]

 

[Dave Gogebic]

Carlo - thanks for the comments. I too am also interested in learning more about calibrating TV's. I am a perfectionist at heart and I don't think anyone will be as fussy as I in calibrating a TV - oh - sometimes that gets me in trouble too.
I do plan on paying for a full ISF calibration on my new Mits - about 2-3 months after it settles in. Audio King in Minneapolis is now offering this service - (they now have a ISF certified Tech in their shop) for about $500.00.
It's amazing to me that the 47 inch Panny can look so good with DVD's and yet so bad with broadcast material - I think the Mit's does broadcast better - but then I'm comparing a larger set - 55 vs. 47 in 4:3 cropped mode and see more picture.
I can see my next purchase is going to be a HDTV Sat Reciever....oh how all hobbies start getting expensive eh?
The next time I'm in S Cal - I'll have to look you up!

 

[Jeff Leigh]

I've been reading all the reviews about how cable looks awful and how people hate this set, but personally I think it looks great. The quality of cable channels is directly related to the source. Some channels look almost like DVDs, and some like like total crap. It just really varies.
I've spent maybe two weekends tweaking the set. A couple hours getting red push down and many more hours getting convergence perfect. I'll admit that I am kind of a perfectionist, so it really doesn't take this long to calibrate the set. I just wanted it to be almost perfect.
The red push fix is easy. Shouldn't take that long at all. Convergence takes longer, but I think it actually has more of an affect. I kept tweaking it until it was almost flawless and it showed. The picture is much better (even on cable) after this is done. People that complain about poor cable picture and geometry problems really need to do this.
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[Carlo_M]

Dave,
Send me an email or PM any time you're in SoCal and you will be more than welcome to come over.
Jeff,
It really is a crapshoot with how this TV handles cable. On my set, sometimes at some point in the day Channel 4 (NBC) will look terrible, and at some other points in the day it will look stellar! Go figure.

Since I have long since stopped watching primetime programming (really around the time Cheers ended) the cable performance doesn't bother me enough like it would Dave. And I don't care about seeing The Dodgers, The Lakers, or my beloved UCLA Bruins stretched out in Full Mode on a 4:3 picture. I'm usually listening to Vin Scully or Chick Hearn more than watching the games anyway.
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My dealer of choice (especially if you live in So-Cal, I highly recommend them): www.yawaonline.com

 

[Matt_Stevens]

While at TWEETERS this evening to order an additional glass panel for my system shelf, I had the chance to compare the 47" Panasonic to the 46" Mitsubishi. It was about 8:15 and the place was winding down. Lights were lower than usual and both sets were in the theater room, where you could dim the lights even further, so this made things a bit easier.
The Panasonic was being fed HBO's HDTV signal and at the time, was showing a making of PLANET OF THE APES. It was clearly an upconverted signal and about equal to DVD in quality. I played with the controls and found the picture to be very pleasing, with high detail, good blacks and no noticeable noise. CONVERGENCE was also very good. This set was just days old and the guy I talked with said he set it up and calibrated with THX Optimode from AKIRA first thing, so no wonder it was OK.
The MITSUBISHI did not fair so well. It was hooked up to a DENON DVD player with the DTS JURASSIC PARK playing and the image sucked. Artifacts were clearly seen and the image was grainy and noisy. I played with the settings and could not get them any better. It was a very unpleasing picture.
This surprised me, because the larger Mitsubishi sets in the store look great. Heck, I can't remember ever seeing a Mitsu HDTV that didn't impress me.
What does this tell me? In store evaluations are useless. Lighting, signal feed, cables, age of the set, the settings, all can screw up an otherwise grand TV set.
SO I will sit back and await the arrival of my Panasonic, and hope to hell it is not damaged in route or suffering from any real problems.

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www.deceptions.net/superman

 

[Carlo_M]

Matt,
Call Panasonic and order the service manual. It's only $13 shipped. The 9pt convergence is fine for most people, but I suspect you'll want to do the full 64pt convergence. Also, the fix for the red push is in there (which even the Mits doesn't have, you have to build an attenuator and that only affects the component input).
Be sure to check out BrettW's Panasonic TV web site for helpful tweaks (in his main page and his Site Forums).
Good luck!
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My dealer of choice (especially if you live in So-Cal, I highly recommend them): www.yawaonline.com

 

[Matt_Stevens]

Just ordered it.
Don't I need some kind of transparent grid to put over the set for a 64pt convergence? Sorry, that is one area of RPTV's I know nothing about.

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www.deceptions.net/superman

 

[Carlo_M]

You don't need one, per se, but if you want to get geometry absolutely perfect you'll need to make one or buy one. If you get the PT-47 manual, there's a part # for the grid and you can order that from Panasonic. I'm going to call them in a few days and inquire as to what the price is. Might be high because a lot of people (Mits owners mostly) make their own grids, and they wouldn't do that if these came cheaply...
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My dealer of choice (especially if you live in So-Cal, I highly recommend them): www.yawaonline.com

 

[Matt_Stevens]

So in other words, I can just try and get the grids straight by eye and that shoul be fine? How long does this normally take to? Do ISF guys do this, or would that cost me big bucks for something I can do myself?
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www.deceptions.net/superman

 

[Carlo_M]

Matt, perfect convergence & geometry is pretty much unattainable. I can get acceptable levels of both (for 90%+ of the people out there) within an hour or two. But you can literally have a grid and spend 10 hours on it and maybe never get it "absolutely perfect."
ISF'ers tend not to do much more than very basic convergence/geometry because it literally can take hours and hours.
It depends on your level of perfection. My geometry is "good enough" for me, which would be "excellent" for the masses, and probably "decent" for an ISF trained eye. I was only at it a couple of hours.
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My dealer of choice (especially if you live in So-Cal, I highly recommend them): www.yawaonline.com

Link Removed for their Link Removed reviews

 

[William Anthony]

Dave, if you can't afford a Pioneer set, get a Tosh. Mits are very cheesy sets also, like the Pannys, and they don't last. Mits never really made a very good tv. Let then stick to building cars. Had two Mits, and they both crapped out.

 

[Andrew Beacom]

I saw this model again last night. This time at Best Buy. I was in their spending some quality time with the new Toshiba 50H81.
As I have noted before the Panny has limitations and it's far from perfect. But it is only fair of me to state that the model I saw last night had a good a picture as any of the other TV's on disply. With a good quality signal this set looks a good bargain. If you plan on watching high quality sources all the time (like DVD) then this set is a contender IMHO.
I personally like the Toshiba better but you pay slightly more for some of the added functions.