Pan and Scan -- Could it be ... ?

Discussion in 'Archived Threads 2001-2004' started by Allan Jayne, Apr 25, 2002.

  1. Allan Jayne

    Allan Jayne Cinematographer

    Joined:
    Nov 1, 1998
    Messages:
    2,404
    Likes Received:
    0
    Does Hollywood have some tricks up its sleeve?
    Perhaps Hollywood wants to sell everybody the pan and scan edition, and then release the wide screen edition so everyone will buy the same movie again. Twice as much revenue.
    Pehaps Hollywood is using pan and scan as a stopgap until better copy protection schemes can be worked out. Downrez the picture (the inner 540 out of the 720 pixels) for now.
    Video hints:
    http://members.aol.com/ajaynejr/video.htm
     
  2. David Lambert

    David Lambert Executive Producer

    Joined:
    Aug 3, 2001
    Messages:
    11,380
    Likes Received:
    38
     
  3. Jeff

    Jeff Supporting Actor

    Joined:
    Jun 30, 1997
    Messages:
    947
    Likes Received:
    0
    This makes sense. It's clear, the studios like P&S, otherwise they would have widescreen turorials on DVD's, but this is not the case. Plus there is the added labor of pan & scanning a movie.

    I work in a video store and have pictures in the store of widescreen vs P&S movies. Customers are amazed and instantly converted. Could the studios do this? YES! Will they? NO!

    Jeff
     
  4. Dmitry

    Dmitry Supporting Actor

    Joined:
    Nov 30, 1998
    Messages:
    740
    Likes Received:
    0
    Look at this thread. If you want to generate more revenue, why release a POS (I mean P&S) version while WS is OOP?
     
  5. Joe McCabe

    Joe McCabe Second Unit

    Joined:
    May 6, 1999
    Messages:
    336
    Likes Received:
    0
    There's only one flaw with that plan.
    I will NEVER buy a Pan & Scan DVD.
    So from me, they still get only one sale.
    And actually, in the long run, they make less money.
    Think about it. Alot of us impulse buy. We picked up a DVD because some people here recommend it, or something like that.
    Now let's say there's a 6 month window between P&S and Widescreen releases. During that time many of us will have seen the film in question (i.e cable and such).
    Now, we would then be less likely to purchase the film, unless we REALLY enjoyed it.
    So in essence, the studios will have shot themselves in the foot.
    So studios, remember this....WE ARE YOUR TARGET DEMOGRAPHIC!!!!!
    Not some bloated Walmart Mom, who smells of fried foods!!!!!
    WE ARE THE ONES WITH HUNDREDS OF DISCS IN OUR COLLECTIONS!!!
    Not some bloated Walmart Mom, who smells of fried foods!!!!!
    Now just repeat that to yourselves, and you should be ok after awhile.
    [​IMG]
     
  6. LukeB

    LukeB Cinematographer

    Joined:
    Apr 26, 2000
    Messages:
    2,178
    Likes Received:
    0
     
  7. streeter

    streeter Screenwriter

    Joined:
    May 24, 2001
    Messages:
    1,407
    Likes Received:
    8
    Real Name:
    Michael
    I've been saying this for a long time as well, like David... but nobody seems to agree, let alone respond to my messages and offer why my statement (according to them) doesn't make sense.

    This is the reason that we're fighting this battle right now, but Ron and almost everyone else are taking it in the wrong direction.

    I think it's the studios' strategy. Every P&S DVD sold means a possible re-buy a few years later.
     
  8. GerardoHP

    GerardoHP Supporting Actor

    Joined:
    Jan 10, 2001
    Messages:
    703
    Likes Received:
    4
    Location:
    Los Angeles, California
    Real Name:
    Gerardo Paron
    Of course that's what they're doing! Why would they put both P&S and WS version on the same DVD and cut their sales by, say, 1/5? (I doubt that everyone would buy the same movie again in WS, but I imagine a good number of people would.) In Hollywood, the bottom line is the bottom line. The studios have been releasing movies first in P&S form and later WS, or with special added features, or as special editions, for years. Just take a look at George Lucas' endless revisions of his $#%*& Star Wars movies -- it's all there, clear as water.[​IMG]
     
  9. Alex Spindler

    Alex Spindler Producer

    Joined:
    Jan 23, 2000
    Messages:
    3,971
    Likes Received:
    0
    Here is why I would disagree.

    The people who would buy the pan and scan version either accidentally or on purpose prefer that version or don't know the difference. They would return it if they understood the difference and preferred widescreen.

    The people who would buy the widescreen version either accidentally or on purpose prefer that version or don't know the difference. They would return it if they understood the difference and preferred pan and scan.

    By releasing only one version at a time, they are

    a) being denied revenue from the people who understand the difference, because they will either not purchase or return it when they realized their mistake.

    b) Putting forth the chance that a person who either purchases now or defers their purchase until the version that they want will lose interest in the title and never purchase it again or at all.

    c) Putting consumers in the position that what they have is "good enough" and never repurchase.

    By releasing both versions, in proper proportion to the interest for each version, they will receive current revenue. Then, when the Joes of the world get a 16:9 TV, they will get the widescreen revenue from the already released disc. In addition, those under the accidental category will exchange the disc for the version they want.

    Now, this argument is applicable to our current widescreen dominated market as a reason to stock dual versions at all times. But, I think it is clear that the possibility of widescreen only is still a very long way off.

    By choosing this, I can't help but conclude that the studios will lose money in droves. By releasing dual versions, they stand to make money by all of their customers.

    Just my take.
     
  10. Qui-Gon John

    Qui-Gon John Producer

    Joined:
    Oct 2, 2000
    Messages:
    3,527
    Likes Received:
    0
    S T O P T H E I N S A N I T Y [​IMG]
    We shouldn't have to be detectives to make sure every purchase or rental we make is the type of format we want. They should eliminate P&S only releases or at the very least make it VERY VERY OBVIOUS. Like a real big banner across the case PAN & SCAN VERSION.
    They also need to stop putting out non-ana OAR DVD's.
    I will never knowingly buy a P&S or a non-ANA DVD. No OAR, no ANA, no sale!
     
  11. Ricardo C

    Ricardo C Producer

    Joined:
    Feb 14, 2002
    Messages:
    5,059
    Likes Received:
    0
    We're never going to mount a succesful campaign against P&S if you people keep stereotyping "J6P" as you do. You're falling into the same trap as the marketing drones who "know" familes "want" P&S.

    Wanting a film on P&S isn't always a sign of an inferior intellect, or inferior taste in movies. I should know, since I didn't start buying OAR till 1999. That doesn't mean I was a drooling J6P and then "saw the light." I had the same tastes then as I do now. Liked the same actors and the same directors. I just became more demanding.

    Speaking of those who want P&S as animals based on their preference is counter-productive and serves only to satisfy your own ego. Believe it or not, there are people who don't consider having the perfect HT the holy grail.
     
  12. streeter

    streeter Screenwriter

    Joined:
    May 24, 2001
    Messages:
    1,407
    Likes Received:
    8
    Real Name:
    Michael
    Alex: The DVDs will be re-bought in Widescreen once widescreen television sets are popular.

    Basically, every Pan&scan DVD bought now, for the studios, has an additional 'future re-buy value' to them.

    That's why the studios are trying to sell as many p&s discs right now. For catalogue releases though, carrying 2 versions of each movies is a nuissance to retailers (as well as customers). Right now, they only do it on 'hot new releases'... There is a lot of support for widescreen, but the studios are trying to sell less and less ws discs now. That's why movies like Snow Dogs are starting to be released P&S only now.
     
  13. Mark Hanson

    Mark Hanson Agent

    Joined:
    May 4, 1999
    Messages:
    49
    Likes Received:
    0
    The old statement of the squeaky wheel getting the grease applies here. Make sure you are squeaking to the studios on every Pan & Scam only release. They release 5 DVD's you WOULD have bought. Make sure they know 5 TIMES. Make sure they know early, as soon as the specs are released or you have knowledge of them.

    Point out you have a different buying habit, that it takes over 10 or more Walmart customers to equal your purchases.

    Point out you do not normally send complaints in because your purchases are not impulse purchases, but thought out. You check the specs early and order or purchase from a reliable source so you do not have to complain. State you consider the sources they normally hear from not reliable enough in stocking the product you normally purchase to go there. That vendor has lost your sale when options are available and the studio will lose this sale since it is Pan and Scan only. Let them you know dual formats are not a problem it is pan and scan only.

    Then surprise the pan and scan vendors, return. I accidently got distracted and got JP in the wrong format. I took it back to the counter. Was told why bring it back it had the full picture everyone wanted. My comment was I wanted the whole movie. To the you are crazy look, my response was did the person ever go to the movies. To yes, was the screen there a very wide rectangle. To yes, how does that fit on a square TV. I knew of only 2 ways. To a more puzzled look I asked for the remote to the DVD playing in widescreen and said one is to zoom in and the lose the sides and I zoomed. The second was widescreen. Sorry I wanted the whole movie.

    To a puzzled look, I left, but heard a young teen look at her parents and go, see I told you, you bought movies that had parts missing as she listed a couple favorites.

    So, go complain, educate the marketing department you are here and what they can loose. Then come back and let us know.
     
  14. Kwang Suh

    Kwang Suh Supporting Actor

    Joined:
    Sep 4, 1999
    Messages:
    849
    Likes Received:
    0
    Maybe we should buy P&S DVDs and return them, complaining that they don't have black bars. [​IMG]
     
  15. Patrick McCart

    Patrick McCart Lead Actor

    Joined:
    May 16, 2001
    Messages:
    7,555
    Likes Received:
    186
    Location:
    Georgia (the state)
    Real Name:
    Patrick McCart
    Actually, the real reason why dual versions are made is...
    To please 100% of the possible buyers. The smart buyers who want the correct aspect ratio get their needs, the ignorant-about-widescreen buyers get what they want.
    If it takes dual releases to make those who don't care happy, it's fine with me. As long as the OAR version is released, I could care less what happens to the non-OAR version.
    However, these Disney laserdisc quickies are plain laziness. It can't be all that more expensive to make a new transfer of a film such as White Fang instead of using a 7 year old LD/VHS transfer
    There's a name for a company that gives this kind of lazy treatment to DVDs: Madacy. [​IMG]
     
  16. mctague

    mctague Stunt Coordinator

    Joined:
    Nov 9, 1999
    Messages:
    113
    Likes Received:
    0
    I agree with Michael Streeter, that pan & scan will be prevalent until widescreen TVs are prevalent. Just today, somebody @ work was complaining at how small a widescreen movie was on a 32" 4:3 TV.
    It must be either cost of manufacturing, or the opportunity to resell content, as I'm thinking J6P won't pay enough attention to blame a STUDIO when they buy the wrong format. Otherwise, I would think unhappy customers should be a disincentive to our current situation.
    I think it is very disappointing that EVERYONE isn't shipping both versions in 1 box, as it does cause consumer confusion/frustration when they don't get what they want. Just last week I had to educate the wife about Full Screen only releases after she brought one home. So even when the wife is getting into sharing my hobby.....I've gotta set her straight. [​IMG]
     
  17. Ricardo C

    Ricardo C Producer

    Joined:
    Feb 14, 2002
    Messages:
    5,059
    Likes Received:
    0
    Having both versions on the same disc is a great educational tool in itself. I once rented "Disclosure" and tested both versions to check out the differences. After three minutes of the P&S version I just had to go back to Widescreen one.

    What kills me is this: Doing a P&S transfer involves more work than an OAR one. If they're going the extra mile for J6P, why not simply release the ws transfer as well? Sometimes I think studios just wanna piss us off.
     
  18. MaxY

    MaxY Guest

    You guys can be so wrong with your stereotypes it is not funny.

    Let me tell you the story of a relative...

    Her home cost over 200K, Her and her husband both drive top of the line Mercedes (Her a 4 door and him a sporty 2 door), she is well educated and not likely to ever be seen in a Wallmart.

    Now when I talked to her about DVD the first thing shesaid was I don't like the black bars and won't be buying one. So I tried to explain to her abour aspect ratios and she did not let me get far before telling me she understood what the black bars were and how they are peserving the screen format, but she just did not like them.

    It is sacry. This is a person who was smart enough to understand letterboxing without it being explained to her and yet she would still rather have a full frames presentation.

    So I think you make some bad assumptions when you think that anyone who wants full frame is some slob that shops at Wallmart and packs the stuff in the back of a rusty old car that they spent their college fund on years ago instead of college.

    Max
     
  19. Ricardo C

    Ricardo C Producer

    Joined:
    Feb 14, 2002
    Messages:
    5,059
    Likes Received:
    0
    Bravo, Max [​IMG]
     
  20. Joseph Bolus

    Joseph Bolus Cinematographer

    Joined:
    Feb 4, 1999
    Messages:
    2,472
    Likes Received:
    208
     

Share This Page