PAL plays okay on NTSC equipment???

Discussion in 'Archived Threads 2001-2004' started by Nathan_H, Jul 15, 2001.

  1. Nathan_H

    Nathan_H Stunt Coordinator

    Joined:
    Feb 26, 2001
    Messages:
    229
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    110
    I recently bought the version of Welles' Chimes at Midnight/Falstaff available in SPAIN from dvdgo.com.
    I was worried that it was listed as both PAL and region 2, since my main set up is region 1 and NTSC. But I figured I'd be able to watch it on my computer -- and that that would be better than watch my old poor VHS dub of a VHS dub of a Japanese laserdisc of the same movie, which was what I had been suffering with for ages.
    Well, just for the heck of it, I popped it into my progressive scan JVD dvd player. The disc wasn't rejected on region grounds... as it turns out, the disc is "all regions" even though it wasn't listed that way. And, oddly enough, it played find on my TV! Since the TV is an HD-ready beast, it can handle up to 60hz... so I thought that I might be able to watch it -- even though the TV is NTSC -- but ONLY if I had a PAL compatible player.
    Well, my player makes not claim to PAL compatability. But using the component progressive outputs on the player, and the progressive component inputs on the TV, everything was fine, and looked very nice.
    Is this typical?
     
  2. Chauncey2

    Chauncey2 Extra

    Joined:
    Apr 26, 1999
    Messages:
    16
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Nathan,
    What kind of TV do you have? Is there any distortion in the picture at all?
    If the picture is perfect, then a couple of things could be happening:
    1. Your TV can handle the PAL progressive signal, which is 576/50p. This would surprise me, since most US rear projection or direct view TVs will not handle this input signal.
    2. The JVC DVD player is convertng the PAL progressive to NTSC progressive. NTSC progressive is 480/60p.
    3. The DVD could have both the PAL and NTSC versions on one disc, and your JVC player is outputting the NTSC version.
    Good Luck,
    Chauncey
    ------------------
    Chauncey
    Home Theater Equipment List
     
  3. Nathan_H

    Nathan_H Stunt Coordinator

    Joined:
    Feb 26, 2001
    Messages:
    229
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    110
    The TV is a Toshiba 43HX70 RPTV. In theory, it shouldn't be PAL compatible, though it can handle up to 60hz.
    The DVD player is the JVC XV-D723GD -- which shouldn't be able to convert PAL to NTSC.
    Whether the disc has NTSC as well as PAL, I don't know. Is that common? How would I tell?
    ---
    And, yes, there is no distortion at all. The image appears to be a medium quality transfer to DVD -- ie, like a very good laserdisc and not at all inferior to many other DVDs I own.
     
  4. Chauncey2

    Chauncey2 Extra

    Joined:
    Apr 26, 1999
    Messages:
    16
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Nathan,
    When playing a PAL DVD, what format does the TV says it is outputting? 480p? 1080i? 576p? (It would be awesome if it said 576p. [​IMG])
    I have a Mitsubishi 65857 rear projection TV, and when it receives a non-standard signal it will place a "*" by the format. For example, when I feed it a 540p signal, it shows it as "1080i*". When people have fed their Mits sets with a PAL progressive signal from an iScan Pro, it indicates the format is "480p*".
    Also, there might be something on your DVD player that indicates what signal it is outputting.
    You indicated that your TV can handle up to 60 Hz. If it can handle the 50 Hz signal from a PAL DVD, then half the battle is won.
    ------------------
    Chauncey
    Home Theater Equipment List
     
  5. stephen abbot

    Joined:
    Sep 28, 1999
    Messages:
    45
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Hi, I'll take a wild stab at this, in the PAL world there are no real PAL progressive players at this point, I do believe a unit is available ex China, however other than that most progressive players sold in the PAL world will only do NTSC Progressive, if you place a PAL disc in them they will convert it to NTSC and output it as 480/60p. I would suggest that is what is happening here.
    I could be wrong, but a reasonable guess me thinks
    Cheers
    Stephen
    [Edited last by stephen abbot on July 15, 2001 at 05:56 PM]
    [Edited last by stephen abbot on July 15, 2001 at 05:57 PM]
     
  6. Nathan_H

    Nathan_H Stunt Coordinator

    Joined:
    Feb 26, 2001
    Messages:
    229
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    110
    My TV doesn't tell me what kind of signal it's receiving -- but there are some behaviors that only occur with 540p and above.... so I'll see whether it's triggering any of those behaviors (hadn't thought to look).
    The DVD player doesn't tell what it's outputting in any meaningful way, either.
    --
    Regarding a PAL player outputting NTSC -- I don't know that that is what's happening here, simply because it's an NTSC player... but it does appear to be taking a PAL disc and outputting NTSC progressive...
    ------------------
     
  7. Christian Behrens

    Christian Behrens Supporting Actor

    Joined:
    Mar 2, 2000
    Messages:
    714
    Likes Received:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    110
    Location:
    SF Bay Area
    Real Name:
    Christian Behrens
    Stephen,
    It's not an official feature, but people modifying Denon's 2800 in Europe also managed to make him PAL progressive :).
    -Christian
     
  8. stephen abbot

    Joined:
    Sep 28, 1999
    Messages:
    45
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Christian, I understand that what you say is correct, and have infact seen a modified denon.
    I suggest that the progressive machines we get here and in Europe are infact the identical machines that you have in the US, only the region code is different. Hence they will play PAL discs in the same manner as here by converting to NTSC and then progressive.
    By the way, I have seen the above mentioned Denon playing PAL discs before modification in the manner mentioned, and I would have to say it was not a good solution, the conversion and scaling was not good. The modifed machine was pretty good.
    Cheers
    Stephen
     
  9. Roarke

    Roarke Auditioning

    Joined:
    Apr 25, 2000
    Messages:
    5
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Is the movie B&W?
    I can play B&W pal discs on my ntsc equipment with no problem.
     
  10. Nathan_H

    Nathan_H Stunt Coordinator

    Joined:
    Feb 26, 2001
    Messages:
    229
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    110
    Yes, it is b/w.
    I may try a color disc at some point, and see. I didn't realize that might be a factor.
     
  11. Hendrik

    Hendrik Supporting Actor

    Joined:
    Oct 23, 1998
    Messages:
    595
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    "...I didn't realize that [this being a b&w movie] might be a factor."
    ...I betcha it is!...
    BTW, how is that Orson-Welles-does-Shakespeare disc? ...horrible? ...barely ok? ...passable? ...good? ...better than that?
    (sound & image, I mean)...
    Should I get it? Should I wait for a 'better' (restored, annotated, commentaried) Region 1 version?
    Inquiring minds want to know!...
    . . . [​IMG] . . .
    [Edited last by Hendrik on July 20, 2001 at 05:54 AM]
     
  12. Nathan_H

    Nathan_H Stunt Coordinator

    Joined:
    Feb 26, 2001
    Messages:
    229
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    110
    Quite decent, especially considering the source materials.
    That is, it wasn't restored like Othello, and could probably benefit from such a treatment. But it's a nice letterboxed (non-anamorphic) transfer of a good print of the film. The sound is a little harsh/rough, but only to the extent that the original was/is that way.
    It is better than any other version I've dug up -- and probably as good as it gets until someone restores it.
    I was very happy to find it.
    ------------------
     
  13. Hendrik

    Hendrik Supporting Actor

    Joined:
    Oct 23, 1998
    Messages:
    595
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    ...thanks... will add this title to my next order of Spanish DVDs...
    . . .
     

Share This Page