Overheating and various other rants!

Discussion in 'Archived Threads 2001-2004' started by Brett DiMichele, Mar 12, 2002.

  1. Brett DiMichele

    Brett DiMichele Producer

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    I have been messing with this new PC non stop, thinking of
    ways to better cool it, sort out wires, improve airflow,
    improve the coolness factor.. Ya know it's a new toy.. [​IMG]
    Well I tore everything out of the case and set the power
    supply down and neatly wrapped all the leads with electrical
    tape (I do it as good as the car manufacturers if not better)
    I would have rather used expanding nylon sheath but I couldn't
    get it over some of the connectors. But I did use nylon sheath
    on all of the fan pig tails. I put the system back together
    and I noticed it was running WAY hot.. Like running WinAmp
    Beta3's Visualization Studio set so that the visualization
    was my desktop background (woah is that COOL!) and my Intel
    Active Monitor went off! I was like okay what's going on
    here? So I checked and dayuum I was up to 130F at the CPU
    and I said something ain't right here!
    Well, when I was making all my wires all nice like, I put
    the rear case fan in backwards! LOL Whodathunk the rear
    exhaust fan just don't work as good as a blower instead of
    a sucker! [​IMG]
    I also noticed that I had my heat sink off and on too much
    and I practicly got the thermal compound all smeared around.
    So I washed the heatsink off and polished the base of the
    heatsink and then I masked off the area where the CPU makes
    contact and I applied a heavy coat of Permetex Copper Anti
    Seize Compound. It's a grease that is stable to 1800 degrees
    F and contains pure copper particles. When I removed the
    masking tape I ended up with a nice clean square where the
    CPU sits. One thing that woried me was that this may conduct
    electricity and my CPU has a hole in the top (I assume that
    is the thermal probe) but all is well, nothing smoked! [​IMG]
    Ohh and I ruined my pretty yellow round FDD Cable.. I cut
    off the second FDD connector thinking hell it should work..
    WRONG.. Now it won't work at all.. Ohh well [​IMG] I am going
    to order a single round FDD connector anyway..
    And I beleive I am going to pick up a tube of Arctic Silver
    II 3 grams for 6 bucks over at www.2cooltek.com
    I still would like to get a good heat sink but I am comming
    to the conclusion that the heat sink manu's are more interested
    in catering to that weird outkast bunch that run those fragile
    AMD thingies! [​IMG]
     
  2. Rob Varto

    Rob Varto Supporting Actor

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    Brett,

    Im using a Swiftech heatsink and my cpu (Athlon XP 1800+) runs at about 34 degrees. The only downside is that it's pretty loud.
     
  3. Jeff Braddock

    Jeff Braddock Second Unit

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    Brett,

    I read in an issue of Maximum PC a DYI way to cool your pc. It involves some cutting of the case and soldering, etc. I think I still have the issue somewhere. Email me if you want the details (if I can find the mag.).
     
  4. Brett DiMichele

    Brett DiMichele Producer

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    Rob,

    Yeah that's a good heat sink... Problem is that a SocketA

    cooler doesn't help me out much (Socket 478). And it seems

    everyone is catering to AMD chips.

    The selection of HSU's for the P4 478 Socket are few and far

    between at the moment.

    ThermalTake has a Volcano 7+ out for the 478 that is all

    copper and it "looks" to be a well constructed HSU but I

    won't buy one till I see results from tests on the web.

    I ordered some Arctic SilverII Compound last night and a

    new round flop cable (I will try not to screw this one up)

    I think the Arctic Silver may drop my temps a few degrees

    but that's still not enough for me.. [email protected] has me running

    at 120 degrees constant.

    Jeff,

    Sure email me the article.. I am not gonna hack up my case

    to install more exhaust fans but it may still be worth a

    read.
     
  5. Camp

    Camp Cinematographer

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    Brett,
    Here's the exact same Swiftech for your processor:
    http://www.sidewindercomputers.com/swifmcret.html
    I use the same monster on my Thunderbird. The included 80mm fan is a bit loud but MUCH better than the 60mm Delta Black label I used to use. You can also throw on a virtually silent Panaflo (or other brand) and still get good cooling.
    Sidewinder Computers is a good vendor too.
    The less expensive Alpha is coming for P4 (might be out now) too. I'd go for the Swifty though...it's got looks on its side. [​IMG]
     
  6. Brett DiMichele

    Brett DiMichele Producer

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  7. Camp

    Camp Cinematographer

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    Well, the Swiftech only cools in celsius. [​IMG]
    My temps dropped ~8 degrees C when going from a Thermoengine w/60mm delta to the Swiftech with 80mm 60CFM delta.
    Go for the Alpha then. In real-world use the performance difference between the Alpha and Swiftech is pretty minimal. The version of the Alpha Pal 8045 for your CPU is called the 8942t.
    It can be had for under $40 here:
    http://www.inflowdirect.com/alpalforpeni.html
     
  8. Richard_s

    Richard_s Second Unit

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    Not sure why there is an issue here with temps. 130'F (54.4'C) is well within the specification of any T'bird CPU they are actually rated to 90'c (194'F) but I would hate to see one run that hot but 55'C is just fine. Not sure what processors are of concern here. AMD processors like Durons and classic athlons are rated to 70'C (158'C). I am not sure what processors are in question here but the temperature that is talked about does differ depending on the CPU. Those that have a DIE moiunted thermal diode can go to 90'C. Those that can only read the Plate temperature, like measuring in the heatsink like I did below, should keep the PLATE temperature below 70'C. The readout from all motherboards (at least AMD ones) will read PLATE temperature unless the CPU and the motherboard are set up to read the die mounted thermal diode (standard t'birds like mine do not have the thermal diode). If you are not sure then take the safe route and assume you are reading the PLATE temperature.
    I have a dual amd 1.4ghz t'bird system CPU0 runs at 51'C and CPU1 runs at 55'C when I run 2 instances of [email protected] and have never had the system hang or fail in any way. I measured the temperature by mounting a thermocouple in the heat sink as described in the following AMD application note. I also lapped the heat sink to a 4 microinch (almost mirror)finish and used the equialent of arctic silver. Also my thermocouple reading agree within 2'C of what the motherboard was reporting with its thermal measurement capability.
    Link to AMD application note on Thermal
    look under section on "Build and installation guides" and read the document on "AMD thermal, Mechanical, and Chassis cooling Design guide" this helped me alot. Sorry I don't know where to find the same information for Intel CPU's.
    If you are at 55'C (130'F) while running [email protected] or prime95 both rail the CPU to 100% you are fine. Cooler is better but if your system is stable I doubt you will notice the speed increase that a little better cooling might bring. My guess is also that the reduced life is not an issue it will become obsolete before it dies IMHO. In my experience it is nice to run cooler and its a fun challenge but usually one pays a price not only for the parts but the noise level generally increases.
     
  9. Brett DiMichele

    Brett DiMichele Producer

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    Rich,
    No AMD's here...
    Socket 478 Pentium 4 1.8Ghz
    and yes it is well within spec by a HUGE margin..
    I run Intel Active Monitor on my Intel 845BD MoBo which
    measures the MoBo Surface Temp and the CPU Core Temp (built
    in core thermal diode) and like I said above I run around
    100-127 degrees at the most doing intensive proccessing.
    But cooler is better and a cooler cooler is just well, Kewl! [​IMG]
    Running Seti on a dual MoBo is cheating! Now I see how some
    of you guys have like 15 thousand hours worth of proccessing!
    LOL!
    Danger Zone for the 1.8 is around 158 Degrees
     
  10. Richard_s

    Richard_s Second Unit

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    I've been discovered yes a dual logs more time than real time by quite a margin [​IMG]
    Just wanted to make sure that you were not concerned about running hot enough to cause a problem. Glad to hear that you are taking the temp reduction as a challenge and that is Kewl I did alot of that since all my systems but the Dualie are overclocked systems and temp does limit the level of OC'ing that one can acheive.
    This computer stuff is fun..
    Good luck with your system it is an Intel after ALL [​IMG] just kidding!! Sound like you have one nice system.
     
  11. Richard_s

    Richard_s Second Unit

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    Brett:

    I don't know exactly what your HSF looks like but one thing many of them have in common that is not optimal is that the fan is mounted flat against the fins of the heat sink. This tends to prevent optimal air flow and heat sink efficiency. I got a 3 deg C reduction by spacing the fan(s) approx 3/8 of an inch off the heat sink. This also quieted down the fan some as well since the back pressure on it was reduced.

    Just another thought.
     
  12. Brett DiMichele

    Brett DiMichele Producer

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    Rich,
    That is a great tip.. Here is what my HSF looks like.
    [​IMG]
    I have to say I am impressed with even this cooler. I may
    just give Cooler Master another shot. They have a premium
    Copper HSF with Heat Pipe Technology out for my Pg-478 Socket.
    The great thing about these Cooler Master HSF's is that
    they have quick releases that lock onto a HSF Cage that
    mounts in the MoBo thru holes. Very secure and easily removeable
    which I like alot more than some of these cheap clips I see
    expensive HSF's using.
    [​IMG]
     
  13. Richard_s

    Richard_s Second Unit

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    From looking at the pictures the first one looks almost identical to the Coolmaster HSF I use But may be larger (more surface area). Mine is a cheap standard $8 unit and it keeps my 1.4ghz T'birds between 51 an 55 deg C full load. I have not moved the fan away on these yet since the temps are good enough.

    I am not a big supporter of copper heat sinks onbly because I feel the extra $ are a waste of money. If one works out all of the factors that govern the cooling capacity of the HSF it is predominated by the surface area of the heat sink and the fan forces convection. Copper vs aluminum in this application are insignificant.

    The heat pipe unit looks real interesting. What they have done is "pipe" the heat away from the area of the heatsink that is near the surface of the CPU and feed it back into the heatsink away from the CPU to make efficient use of the fan. This does work I built a unit like that as an experiment. Heat pipes like that can be purchases at Edmund scientific. They are also sold in some housewares departments to push through potato's to accelerate cooking in the oven and this does work by "piping" the heat to the center of the potato more quickly. The heat pipe has a working fluid in it and works much like a refrigeration system. The fluid evaporates at the hot source and then condenses when it is cooled by the fan so the "working" fluid circulates in the pipe.
     
  14. Brett DiMichele

    Brett DiMichele Producer

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    Rich,
    Glad someone else is happy with a CoolerMaster. This was
    the OEM HSF installed on my Millennia X-Treme and like I
    said above it does run at very respectable temperatures
    as is.. Right now I am at 122 Degrees running pIRCH,Seti,
    Internet Explorer and WinAmp... That's some fairly hefty
    proccessing i'd say.
    I just would like to knock a few more degrees off the
    temps plus that copper HSF "looks cool" ya know? [​IMG]
    CoolerMaster's HSF's are very reasonably priced. This unit
    is in the $30.00 range and you won't get an SK6 or anything
    equivalant for less than $60.00
    My problem is that I can't find anyone who has this unit
    in stock for my Northwood. They have them in stock for Socket
    A's at newegg..
    Any ideas who might be able to order this one for me?
    Another thing is that I won't have to remove my MoBo to install
    the HSF "Cage" that CoolerMaster uses for the pg-478's it
    should be the same as what is already mounted on my MoBo.
     
  15. Jeff Braddock

    Jeff Braddock Second Unit

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    Brett,

    The article that I made refrence to did not suggest hacking up the case to install more fans, it showed how to make and install a heat pipe. If you want the article I can email it to you.
     
  16. Brett DiMichele

    Brett DiMichele Producer

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    Jeff,
    Yes please do email it to me..
    [email protected]
     
  17. Richard_s

    Richard_s Second Unit

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    Brett:
    The link to the HSF with the heatpipes is not working but if you are looking for the HHC-001 then maybe the following will help
    Try here I never purchased from them (foune them using google.com) but the few reviews on www.resellerratings.com (e-tailer rating site) looks like they may be OK. On 3/12/2002 someone said they got one shipped same day $33 + shipping. Find $17 more stuff to buy from them and get free shipping.
    Link to E-tailer maxcooler.com
    Review on the HHC-001
    Review HHC-001
    Have fun
     

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