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Outlaw Responds to the 950 "experience" (1 Viewer)

RAF

Senior HTF Member
Deceased Member
Joined
Jul 3, 1997
Messages
7,061
I was recently surfing over at the Outlaw Saloon and discovered a post that appears to address many of the issues that have been brought up here in the last couple of months. Outlaw chooses not to post on the forums and I understand their reluctance for a variety of reasons. (They even mention this in the message below). However, I feel that the words they wrote are important (and not because there are some kind words for the beta testers). So I'm going to take the opportunity to post their thoughts here for all to see.
If you wish to direct some comments to the Outlaws directly please go HERE which is at the Outlaw site and the thread involved. Otherwise you will not be speaking to them directly since they don't participate actively on forums other than their own, which is their perogative.
I'm not discouraging discussion here regarding this (in fact I'm encouraging it). However, don't ask a question here that can only be answered by the Outlaws since you will only be directed to the Outlaw site. Other comments that do not require a direct response from The Outlaws are fine.
Here's the text of the message:
To all,
We have been reading certain threads about bashing the Outlaws and are appreciative of the support that you are giving us. We have taken more heat, in accusations and insinuations, over the past few weeks than ever before in the history of the company. (Internally, we have coined a new term: Innsinuendo.) As a long-standing policy, we absolutely refuse to post on Home Theater Forum, but here on our own turf we feel a little more comfortable about speaking our mind. That said...
1) We are not stupid. While we may have misjudged the completion of this product, we would not purposely try to harm our credibility, which has taken three years of hard work to build.
2) When we set our goals for the 950 we knew that we would be going up against some very well respected "players". We admire these companies for their integrity and commitment to excellence. Quite frankly, our goal has been to aspire to the same level of audible performance. We believe the
reports from the Beta Testers are fairly strong evidence that we will achieve this goal.
3) Launching a successful audio product means two things: a. Getting the best possible audible performance, and b. making as few mistakes as possible. (In this case, software.)
4) With over 100 man years experience, we Outlaws must admit, the 950 has been the most complicated product we have ever developed. Not only are we attempting to deliver state of the art performance (you will be the judge of that), but we have had to integrate two circuits never used before; Cirrus Extra Surround, and the Triple Crossover, the latter being jointly developed by Outlaw and Cirrus Logic. In addition, we are the first company to offer a non-THX surround processor with Dolby Surround EX. Finally, we had to modify our Cirrus Logic decoding algorithm to ensure it will play any new EX flag enabled software such as JP III and Atlantis. Long story short, and straight from the horses mouth, we were too optimistic about scheduling with this product. That will never happen again.
One more point. This is a small industry. We know where our competitors are getting their platforms, we know what those platforms cost. We are also aware of the time frame for their "upgrades" to say nothing of what they will cost. We will let each of those companies speak for themselves but, suffice it to say, we are extremely happy with what we are about to offer at $899.
5) Beta Testers. To a person, all of them have been fantastic. They have isolated and identified several glitches we missed and their comments have helped us to refine the performance of this unit. You might ask, "Why did we not catch these glitches ourselves?". The answer; no two setups are exactly alike. With the wide variety of speaker sources, units, etc., things crop up that we could not have caught ourselves. We offer our sincerest thanks to all of them.
6) New Product Announcements: Well, as many of you have guessed, there will be a lot less of them until we are very close to production. While we wish it could be otherwise, there are just too many risks in a relatively open environment. Case in point; the 755. We held the announcement of this product until it was ready for production. (Incidentally, there appears to be little feedback on what we consider a breakthrough price performance ratio. After our announcement, the only comment we got on HTF was our typo of calling our DC trigger an AC trigger.)
Going forward (by necessity), we will be forced to release less, not more, information about future product developments. While we wish it were otherwise, bringing consumers along in our product development process is just too risky.
Finally, we want to thank you, our extended Outlaw Family members. We promise, to the best of our ability to continue to offer you quality products at reasonable prices. Furthermore, we promise you the best customer service in the industry - period. As our wives constantly remind us, we are not, nor will we ever be perfect. Except of course when it comes to making A/V equipment decisions...
Regards,
Scott
 

Rusty J.

Agent
Joined
Mar 3, 2002
Messages
27
The answer; no two setups are exactly alike. With the wide variety of speaker sources, units, etc., things crop up that we could not have caught ourselves.
RAF,

Could you and the other beta testers please list the other equipment that you tested with the 950? Thanks.
 

RAF

Senior HTF Member
Deceased Member
Joined
Jul 3, 1997
Messages
7,061
The short answer "Rusty" is that you can ask "your boss" John Morris himself and you can see what equipment I use by following the link to my Home Theater.
The long answer is "Houston, we have a problem!"
 

Rusty J.

Agent
Joined
Mar 3, 2002
Messages
27
RAF,
Thank you very much for that info. I will click on the link in your post for your layout. I'm still trying to find my way around here, so I'm sorry for the stupidity of not looking at the icons in your post. As for asking my boss, I don't think he wants to talk about that stuff with me right now. :)
How about the other testers. What kind of equipment did they use in the beta test? Do they have some links somewhere that I can click on to see?
Thanks for helping me.
 

John Tompkins

Supporting Actor
Joined
Aug 30, 2000
Messages
658
One more point. This is a small industry. We know where our competitors are getting their platforms, we know what those platforms cost. We are also aware of the time frame for their "upgrades" to say nothing of what they will cost





This is an interesting statement. I wonder WHERE the competitors or getting there platforms, I dont know how to interpret this statement, can anybody indulge me ??
 

Evan S

Senior HTF Member
Joined
Nov 21, 2001
Messages
2,210
John, I think what they are saying is that in the case of the newly introduced Aragon Stage One and the Anthem, Outlaw is saying with that statement that they know about the problems with the Motorola chipset and the upgrade for DPL-II, they know what that is costing Klipsch and Sonic Frontiers and they have a good idea when the upgrades will be coming.

They are trying to make a blanket statement saying that the markup on these upgrades is significant and for $899 they are putting out a product that has these features and provides good value. They also seem to be inferring that the upgrades will not come as soon as some think (april/may?) and could lead to the same delays the Outlaw is getting so much heat for right now.

This is just my take on the verbiage used here. I have been stating all along that I think the timeframe quoted for the Anthem upgrade is very optimistic, so if there is a delay, I will not be surprised.
 

Mifr44

Screenwriter
Joined
Dec 30, 2001
Messages
1,410
Real Name
Michael
Hmmm, my take on Outlaw's comments, especially since they mentioned their pre-release price of $899 (I wonder what MSRP will be for it after the release?), is that they are offering far more value for the $ than their competitors.

Another way I interpreted their comments was that everyone else is overpriced. They may be right, and if they are, I hope for Outlaw's success because that can only help the consumer with regards to competitive pricing. It worked in the PC market, why not with audio processors?

Michael
 

Robert Elliott

Stunt Coordinator
Joined
Feb 18, 2002
Messages
103
Hey RAF,
I think I myself may have covered many of those points the Outlaws made. Who is writing their copy? :) Of course, I was toasted for it and hopefully they will be understood for it. That's it - back into my no-Outlaw-discussion-cave until the product ships.
 

John Tompkins

Supporting Actor
Joined
Aug 30, 2000
Messages
658
Robert Elliot,
Couldn't help yourself, could you..;)
Wait I hear footsteps.. I think it's the thought patrol,,gotta go:D
 

Kevin C Brown

Senior HTF Member
Joined
Aug 3, 2000
Messages
5,732
Maybe not the right spot for this, but someone mentioned it above. :)
I guess I personally don't understand the "delay" by Motorola for their DPL II/DTS-ES solution (Anthem, B&K, etc).
Companies like Onkyo, Denon, and Yamaha have had receivers out with this stuff for quite a while now.
 

Bruce Cadotte

Stunt Coordinator
Joined
Dec 21, 2001
Messages
98
i was going to keep my mouth shut but i can't,

i am soooo sorry that "outlaw" got their feelings hurt

because they have not been able to put their product out

when they said it would be out and we all talked about

it and hurt their feelings.

we,the members of the forum,did not keep making promises

that the 950 would be out in 3 weeks in every month

from Oct. to now(march)they did and they should be able

to take the lumps for it.

i hope it comes out this time and i can get rid of this

marantz AV-550(it sucks-big time)and i hope no one

defends Outlaw this time because no one else is putting

out a great pre-pro at this price range,well no one

has yet.
 

Mifr44

Screenwriter
Joined
Dec 30, 2001
Messages
1,410
Real Name
Michael
"I guess I personally don't understand the "delay" by Motorola for their DPL II/DTS-ES solution (Anthem, B&K, etc)."

"Companies like Onkyo, Denon, and Yamaha have had receivers out with this stuff for quite a while now."


What DSP engines are these companies using? If Motorola, then why the delay to the companies producing processors and not the receiver manufacturers?

Also, Bryston is slated to come out with their SP1.7 at the end of the month (if they deliver on time), and it will have DPL II and DTS-ES, despite having a Motorola DSP engine. Just one more point of confusion.

Michael
 

Bill Bradstreet

Stunt Coordinator
Joined
Jan 7, 2001
Messages
149
I thought Yamaha made their own DSP, so they don't have to answer to Motorola.

As for Outlaw's comments. I think the only thing they are guilty of is trying to share information with what they think will be their customer set. They admitted to just this and apologized.

They also said that $899 wasn't going to go away right away. I can't remember the words, but I didn't think they were going to raise the price when the product was announced.

I can't wait for the 950 to grace my shelves. I liked getting updates on the progress. I didn't feel I would be constructive adding to any of the flames, so I've stayed quiet for the most part. But, like others, I just can't resist saying something now.

I have always felt that Outlaw has been doing their best to get a product out the door. I don't believe they were trying to postpone customers' buying patterns in order to capture more market share.

Now to go back to my hole and hope that I have a paycheck in time for my Outlaw order! :)
 

JerryW

Supporting Actor
Joined
Feb 7, 2001
Messages
640
I have to agree with Bruce, to an extent.

Yes, I am still buying a 950, mostly because it sounds like it will be the best sounding pre/pro for
 

PaulKH

Second Unit
Joined
Oct 3, 2001
Messages
413
At least I already have my new receiver and I can enjoy it. Beats being on a waiting list for an indefinite period of time.

Anyway, I sincerely hope everyone gets their Outlaws soon and loves them as much as the 'buzz' and beta testers.
 

Serge Breton

Supporting Actor
Joined
Oct 21, 2001
Messages
528
smiley_gavel.gif

going crazy here!
 

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