Outlaw ICBM questions

Discussion in 'AV Receivers' started by Ron-P, Jan 12, 2004.

  1. Ron-P

    Ron-P Producer

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    Currently I'm running the Klipsch pre/pro, 4 Adcom 2-channel amps for all channels (5.0) and a 250w plate amp for the sonosub. I'd like better bass management (on the cheap) and the Outlaw fits the bill. This will be used for 100% home theater.

    I've done the searching and thread reading but have not found a clear opinion on if this works well for movies or not. Lots of chat on time delay issues but no clear cut answer if it's a problem for home theater or not.

    Any help, opinions or other options in the same price range would be greatly appreciated.


    Peace Out~[​IMG]
     
  2. Brian L

    Brian L Cinematographer

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    OK, I have an opinion[​IMG]

    I don't think its a big problem (that is to say, having the ICBM after TA).

    I think the problem it solves (piss poor BM) far and away outshines any problems it causes with TA or lack thereof.

    I run mine between a Pio 45a and my receiver. I have experimented with TA (setting it to correct distances and then turning it off).

    At one point I thought I may have heard a difference, and thought that the bass may have sounded better with TA off, but could not repeat that. Its tough to test because you can't easily do an A/B.

    I did read a post from someone (maybe Roger Dressler?) who said that at the frequencies involved (80 Hz or so as a typical crossover setting), TA was not going to be an issue.

    At present, I am only delaying my sub channel to get it in phase with my mains), and don't feel that I am missing anything in terms of soundstaging.

    YMMV, but if you had BM issues, I would buy an ICBM in a heartbeat.

    BGL
     
  3. Roger Dressler

    Roger Dressler Stunt Coordinator

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    Time delay offsets with discrete 5.1 sources are not as much of a problem as with matrix type decoders, where sounds are more likely to be shared across adjacent speakers, so time offsets can induce comb filtering. In any case it would help to place the speakers roughly equidistant from the sweet spot.

    However, running a bass manager after the volume control adds another problem, since the signal levels feeding the unit may be rather different as needed to trim the individual speakers. This means the bass it derives will also be weighted the same as the trim offsets. It could mean the bass is not uniformly represented from all channels.

    This can be avoided by using the amp's gain trim controls (rare, though), to balance the system, and set the prepro's trims all to 0dB.
     
  4. Chuck Kent

    Chuck Kent Supporting Actor

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    Roger, you da man! Beat me to the punch! [​IMG]

    I was going to respond to this thread yesterday and mention the volume issue. IMO, it "the" issue when using an ICBM between a pre/pro and an amp.

    I run an ICBM in my setup between my Denon 3803 receiver and a 5 channel amp. But my amp has input level controls on it so I can use it to match channel levels and leave the 3803's levels all set the same.
     
  5. Ron-P

    Ron-P Producer

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    Thanks guys. Is there any device better suite to go between a pre/pro and the amps that won't cause these problems?


    Peace Out~[​IMG]
     
  6. Philip Hamm

    Philip Hamm Lead Actor

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    No.
     
  7. Ron-P

    Ron-P Producer

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    Well then, looks like I'll buy one and give it a listen.

    If I set my speakers to small, the Hz gap is too large to not give this thing a shot.


    Peace Out~[​IMG]
     
  8. Rich Malloy

    Rich Malloy Producer

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    Ron, best of luck... I'm using an ICBM for music-sources only, and couldn't be happier. I don't use the ICBM for DVD-V sources because my Outlaw 1050 allows me to set crossovers at a sufficient variety of frequencies... and, of course, I no longer need to use the delay settings at all (well, set to "0" anyway)!

    One suggestion: if at all possible, do time alignment the old fashioned way, that is, by equidistant physical placement of your speakers. And consider using the ITU setup instead of the Dolby Labs setup if you're using direct radiating speakers for surrounds (this likely will not work for dipole surround speakers that require the listener to be placed in the "null" zone, but I wonder...).

    I did this solely to incorporate hi-res m/c music sources into my surround system, and discovered to my surprise that movie soundtracks sounded much better! I'm not sure what this was due to (more precise TA than achieved by using the delay settings? better placement for direct radiating speakers?), but it certainly was a very nice and unanticipated benefit!
     
  9. Ron-P

    Ron-P Producer

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    Thanks for the tips Rich. I'll most likely order one of these up in the next week or two. Currently I'm in the process of relocating all the gear off the front end of the theater, into the back and out of sight. When that's done, I'll give it a shot.


    Peace Out~[​IMG]
     

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