Outlaw 990 Pre/Pro and 7125 Amp

mrdap

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David
Hello to All,

I am new to the forum and going nuts 'cause I'm finally putting together my my first real HT!

Yesterday I brought home a Sony KDS-R60XBR2. Wow! But I hate the ears.....

Today I put a down payment on the speakers:

Def Tech
BP7004 (2) Front mains
C/L/R 2500 Center
BP2X (2) Surround (2 more later)
Sub later (BP7004s and 2500 contain powered woofers)

I hope someone can give me some advice on the Pre/Pro and Amp.

I have been agonizing on the selection. I have analyzed Adcom, NAD, B&K, Rotel, Lexicon (dream on), Arcam, and Outlaw as well as Denon and Elite receivers.

I will be starting out in a large room about 23x15 until I get the real HT room done, which is 16x14.

Although the 990 has 2 DVI inputs and one output, I have pretty much decided that it makes no sense to use the Pre/Pro to do the switching when the TV has so many inputs and the switching is built in. Since I will ultimately have 3DVI/HDMI devices (Sat, Blue-Ray DVD, and PC) two inputs is not enough anyway.

So, it seems I'm really buying the Pre/Pro for its sound qualities, audio switching and decoding, although, I have to admit, having DVI or HDMI switching available seems like a good idea.

I have a Rotel Seperates/Klipsh Heresy 2 ch stereo I have been using for quite a while, which has served its purpose for two channel.

I have concluded that I should go seperates for the performance and expandability.

I have also concluded that the Outlaw 990 Pre/Pro paired with a 7125 (or 7200 for $850 more) amp combo for $1898 can't be beat based on the specs and the write-ups, but I've never seen one, let alone heard one.

Here's my question(s)

1. Has anyone actually purchased these Outlaw units, and if so, are they quality pieces and how do they sound? In other words, does the old "You get what you pay for apply here?"

2. And can anyone comment on how they compare to the other brands I mentioned above, which are, in general, twice as expensive?

3. 125 w/ch or 200 w/ch? I like music loud for brief periods, and I want really awesome effects.

Thanks in advance for any advice I may receive. This forum is awesome, there is incredible info here, I only hope I can read it all one day!

Also would welcome any other comments on my selections so far!

dap
 

Peter Doten

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I bought the 990 last year to go with my Carver AV-105 amp, it replaced a Nakamichi AV-8 receiver that had been doing the pre/pro duties.

Overall, I am really impressed. I looked at an NAD and a B&K at the local hi-fi place (bought some stuff there a few years back) and decided on the outlaw. If I had the money I surely would have picked the B&K, but as I didn't feel like spending nearly 3x what the outlaw cost, I didn't. The NAD didn't impress me, and I couldn't see where the money was going except in the name and the pocket of the store owner.

I couldn't do any side by side comparisons so it's really hard to say which one might be sonically better than the other, although IMO, it really comes down to features more than anything. My only complaint with the Outlaw would be turning the headphones on and off is a little irritating (have to hold the mute button on the remote for a few seconds, I would prefer a hard switch). But other than that I love it!

HTH
 

Arthur S

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mrdap

In my humble opinion, you are placing too much emphsis on electronics rather than a subwoofer. If you get a subwoofer with your speakers, you won't need a lot of power. Almost everyone recommends that you set your pre-pro or receiver to the Small speaker setting and let your subwoofer handle the bass. There is really not much difference in the sound of various receivers and separates, speakers make about 1000X more difference than electronics.

If I were you, I would get a subwoofer along with your speakers and spend less on electronics. I would probably go with a Denon 2807 and put the difference into a subwoofer.

The Denon 2807 is very highly regarded.

Also, Denon is coming out with a new line of receivers in the middle of 2007 that will have HDMI 1.3 and decoding for DolbyTrue HD and DTS Master HD. Still hard to go wrong with the Denon 2807.

PS I just picked up a Denon 5803A. It is pretty amazing.
 

mrdap

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David
Thanks Arthur for your comments.

I plan on getting a sub later. I will re-consider getting one right now. The BP7004s each contain a 10" active and passive sub with a built in 350 watt amp and the CLR2500 has a 8 sub with a 150watt amp. I thought that might hold me until I can afford a really powerful sub.

I will look into the Denons you suggest.

Thanks.

DAP
 

DaveHo

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Dec 11, 2001
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605
I've had a 990 for a few weeks now. So far I'm diggin' it. Big step up from the Outlaw 1050 receiver I was using as a processor.

To take a step back, I would reconsider your speaker choices. You will get much better performance by getting a separate sub. In addition to the fact that Def Tech's low freq specs are rather questionable, having the sub integrated with the speaker really doesn't allow for optimal placement. I'd skip the built in subs and get a real sub from SVS, HSU, etc instead. You'd likely spend less money in the end. If you like the DefTech sound then check out what they offer without the sub. However, as the owner of a pair of DefTech BP30's for a number of years, lets just say that when I got rid of them I could have kicked myself for waiting so long. The bipolar design of them initially sucks you in, but after a while your left wondering what was so great about them. I'll never own another pair.

-Dave
 

mrdap

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David
Can you recommend a line of speakers, without built-in subs, that I can buy left, right, center and surrounds for about $2900 ($2480 out the door with discount) that would out-perform the Def Techs?

As I said, I do plan on getting a powerfull sub, however I was going to defer that for a few months.
I am not hung up on the $2900 number I could adjust that number for better speakers, but roughly the same price range.

Thanks.

Edit: Previous edit deleted

DAP
 

Arthur S

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mrdap

All I can say is, regardless of what brand of speakers you decide to buy, you really ought to get a subwoofer at the same time, rather than putting it off. The experience is not going to be correct if you defer the purchase of a subwoofer. There are lots of great buys on subwoofers at this time, however some prices are going to go up after the holidays.
 

mrdap

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David
Arthur,

Thanks again for the input. I understand your point about the sub, and am looking into those.

DAP
 

mrdap

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David
Thank you Dave for your input.

Anyone else have info on Outlaw?
I have an itchy trigger finger.

DAP
 

Nick:G

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Jun 17, 2006
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Nick Gallegos

I would agree that good subwoofers are essential to good performance, but electronics DO matter, too. Using the "small" setting on most AVRs and pre/pros will usually roll off everything 80 Hz or so going into the full-range speakers and redirect it to the subwoofer. A setting like this really only applies to systems that contain small satellite speakers that are totally incapable of handling low bass acceptably.

Ideally, a subwoofer needs to be transparent with the rest of the speakers, meaning that you shouldn't be able to pinpoint where the subwoofer physically is by ear. Good full-range floor standing speakers shouldn't have a problem reproducing bass down to 30-40 Hz. Reducing these guys to a 80 Hz roll-off (which is what a "small" speaker setting essentially does) can present problems when you're trying to achieve a smooth and transparent transition from bass to sub-bass (and that's your subwoofer's REAL job). So the point here is that better electronics give your speakers more control and improved dynamics, among other things.


mrdap,

Your choice to go with separates isn't necessarily a bad one, if you have the budget to do so (and it obviously looks like you do). Definitely consider extending your budget a little and factoring in a good sub because Arthur S does have a valid point in that regard. If you're looking for a solid value, SVS is huge in the bang-for-buck category. You can get a very respectable sub from them for under $800. But, since they're direct-to-consumer, it puts you in the same situation as the Outlaw gear.

Some other food for thought... You might already know this, but you can get a get a Rotel RSP-1068 processor paired with a Rotel RMB-1075 amp (120Wx5 @ 8 ohms) for $2,700 MSRP. If you think you need more power, you can uprate the amp to a RMB-1095 for $1,000 more. I just set up the RSP-1068/RMB-1095 in my client's dedicated theater room with a B&W 700-Series setup and it sounds AWESOME.

Good luck and happy holidays!
 

Arthur S

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mrdap

I have almost 45 years experience with AV/HT. Electronics simply don't make nearly as much difference as speakers. If I were you, I would put a good subwoofer at the top of my list. As far as speakers, it is better to listen in as good an environment as you can find. If I were buying speakers today, I would be looking at something new and inexpensive. If you want to know exactly which speakers I am talking about please send me a Private Message.

Happy Holidays
 

mrdap

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David
Hello Nick,

Thanks for your input!

I agree that both electronics and speakers are important! Which is more important could be debated for a long time to come, I'm sure, and depends on the acoustical environment, the other components and the intended usage, of course, not to mention the listener’s ear.

I am indeed a fan of Rotel and I own a two channel separates set up with Rotel amp 125 w/ch, Rotel audio pre-amp, and Rotel tuner. I have been very satisfied with this setup for two channel music and it has doubled as my two channel sound for the TV.

Although I think Denon makes excellent receivers, I have pretty much decided that I want to go for separates on the home theater for the following reasons:

1. Expandability. For example if I ever want to upgrade the pre/pro due to some new development (such as DolbyTrue HD and DTS Master HD or improved video switching) I can do so without impacting the power amp. Or if I find that I need more power I can easily swap out the power amp for a more powerful version.

2. I believe there could be an advantage to keeping the power circuitry separate from the pre/pro circuitry…it certainly keeps the boxes to a more manageable size.

I also am looking for seven channels as I think I will get a better experience with the additional rear speakers, and that seems to be the way the Blu-Ray/HD DVDs are going. So with the Rotel line I would need the RMB-1075 and the RB-1070 to get the same configuration as the Outlaw 7125. What would the advantages of the RSP-1068 be over the Outlaw 990?

As for the sub woofer, I totally agree, and have stated, that it is very important, however, I was going to defer the sub for a little while. Now, based on the inputs, I am rethinking that and have researched the subs. Without the sub, I will not have the effects impact that I will want. I looked at Def-Tech, Velodyne, Hsu and SVS. Based on the forums, the reviews and looking at the products on the respective websites, I have it down to the SVS PB12-Plus/2 or the PB12-Plus. I did seriously consider the Hsu HTF3-HO with Turbo. Any comment here would be appreciated, although I recognize that this is not the right forum for that. However, I have to say, that I am very wary of what I read on the web as I never really know if the reviews, and even the comments are not really a form of paid (or unpaid) advertisement. Based on the comments from SVS PB12-Plus/2 owners, that is the kind of performance I want, but that thing is huge! Any comments on SVS PB12-Plus/2 vs PB12-Plus and vs Hsu HTF3-HO with Turbo would be appreciated.


I agree here as well. My approach (although not clearly stated) has always been to use the BP7004s as full range speakers, not as subs. This way I have the lower end of the spectrum (not sub) powered by their own dedicated amps and woofers. So now I probably don’t need as large an amp to drive the midrange and tweeters, plus the midranges only have to deal with midrange. Then use the speakers with the “large setting” so that the super low freqs are only sent to the sub. By adjusting the sub cutoff, I hope that I can send some lower freq. two channel info to the sub as well.

Arthur, regarding your last post, I don’t doubt your experience in this area and value your input, but I do have to say that you seem to be contradicting yourself when you say that “Speakers are more important than electronics” and “I would buy inexpensive (satellite) speakers” in the same breath.

Thanks again to all for your opinions, and keep’em coming.

Happy Holidays to All!!

DAP
 

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