Outlaw 950 pre/pro (1 Viewer)

[John Cain]

Well, I've been waiting to purchase a pre/pro since mid-summer, last year.

Anyone have any guesses as to when we will finally get our hands on the 950??

I am anxiously awaiting it, I'm looking forward to seeing it, and of course hearing it.

I believe it will be worth the wait.

Take care gang,

-- John

 

[Rob Curtis]

I have always been told that they are confident it will be out (pick one) within 30 days, or in time for the next major holiday.

Doesn't matter when you ask them, you always get the same answer.

 

[John Cain]

When it St. Patrick's Day??

Or would Valentine's Day be more likely ??

j/k

I'm really anxious to get it, the sooner the better for me.

-- John

 

[RAF]

John,
I hope you are at least on the waiting list at Outlaw or you won't have a chance of getting one whenever it is released. I believe that they have so many orders in the queue that even if it were released next week you wouldn't have a shot at one in a short timeframe unless you are already signed up.
Based on the vague specifications on their site I would say that the 950 must be on a serious listener's short list of separates unless money is no object.
Stay tuned.

 

[Rob Curtis]

John,

Robert is right. It doesn't cost you anything to sign up, in fact I don't remember them taking any CC billing info.

Just contact info. No obligation to sign up.

In some ways the wait has cleared some things up for me.

In a thread at AVS forum, a Crystal/Cirus employee has stated he thought that SACD and DVD-A would have a standard digital interface with products available by the end of this year. In fact he claimed to be working on one if I read his post right.

Since the 950 won't be upgraded with a digital interface, according to the Outlaws, I may just give up my place in line and see what happens.

 

[Will]

DVD-A would have a standard digital interface with products available by the end of this year.

I think nobody knows when the copy protection part of the standard digital interface will be agreed upon by all concerned parties (like the music studios). It has to be agreed to before it can be put in production, and so far I haven't heard any time frame as to when the copy protection standard for DVD-A will be agreed to.

Personally, I would not expect products with the copy protection standard to ship before the end of the year.

 

[Kevin C Brown]

re DVD-A/SACD digital interface:
Maybe that will be the 950 Mk II. No, better not go there...

 

[Will]

I think everybody knows there is some risk in being an early adopter. That's why some people may pass up the first batch, even if they're high up on the list, in order to get a unit from a later batch. Maybe by the later batches, there will be reviews which, if positive, would make buying one an easier decision than buying one based on no independent reviews.

 

[JohnEF]

As far as the 950 goes I agree with the last post that many, including myself, will wait for independant reviews before jumping in. Actually I'm more interested in the 770 (I almost purchased the 750) and will wait for some reviews before I jump. I can use my Yamaha 793 that has preouts for a pre-amp until I decide to go with the 950.

John

 

[Rob Curtis]

Will,
While the general public doesn't know when an agreement will be reached, there are those that have, say an insiders viewpoint on the subject.
Please read Dahester posts..this thread set's up what he does:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...0&pagenumber=1
and then read his posts in this thread re: upcoming standard digital formats
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...hreadid=111644
Kind of gives me hope for the near future..........

 

[Will]

Rob,

While the general public doesn't know when an agreement will be reached, there are those that have, say an insiders viewpoint on the subject.

Thank you for letting me know about those posts.

I didn't get the impression from those posts that the music studios will resolve the copy protection issue quickly. They will, eventually, and I hope they will, soon, but I've been hoping quite a while for that! That's what we need most to happen, before we have copy protection in a *standard* digital interface. It's wonderful to hear an insider from Crystal/Cirus speaking about what can be done, technically, but what needs to happen is the studios have to decide to allow digital DVD-A information to pass from DVD-A player to pre/pro in the digital domain with some agreed upon method of copy protection. At least, that's my understanding of the situation.

Will

 

[Rob Curtis]

Will, this post in that thread is what gives me hope...

"Actually I have it on good authority that we can expect to see a standard interface _available_ at the consumer level before the end of 2002. So it's not as far off as one might think. Sorry for the lack of specifics but I am bound by NDA."

In order for a STANDARD interface the music studio's would have had to have signed off on it.

I guess I'm an optimist, but this is the first good news I have seen on the subject in quite a while.

and another of his posts:

"Let me put it this way: my previous statement applies to both SACD and DVD-A. I believe the issues outstanding can be resolved in software, so the finishing touches should be quickly implementable."

Is even better news as it looks like we can have just one digital cable from a nice Universal transport to a DAC(s) or pre/pro. Can't wait to get rid of the birdsnest behind my equipment rack.

It looks like this will be settled just in time for Blue laser to tempt us.

 

[Will]

"Actually I have it on good authority that we can expect to see a standard interface _available_ at the consumer level before the end of 2002. So it's not as far off as one might think. Sorry for the lack of specifics but I am bound by NDA."

I have read that the copy protection issues for digital DVD-A interfaces should be resolved soon, over the last *two* years. These predictions come mostly, from people *not* associated with the music industry, and are often from people who are on the manufacturing/technical/implementation side. I'm always hopeful, but I have to say I'll believe a standard for copy protection is approved when I see it. Frankly, there are many who don't think we'll see standard copy protection in production models *even* by CES 2002. I hope they're wrong. But I'm not going to get my hopes up that they are. Again, it's not a technical issue that can be solved only by the manufacturing/technnical/implementation side. The music studios must give their stamp of approval. And my guess is that nobody really knows in the manufacturing/technical/implementation side when that's going to occur.

 

[Will]

Because bass management, time alignment, and lots of the other DSP processing normally done in a receiver or pre/pro can be done more accurately with fewer artifacts if done digitally rather than in analog. The signal already is digital on the CD/DVD. It is generally best to process the sound digitally, *before* converting the signal to analog. The prospect of extra jitter to a digital signal pales in comparison to the artifacts that would likely be added to a signal if DSP processing, like time alignment, bass managment, etc., were performed to an analog signal.

 

[Rob Curtis]

Larry,

For me it is getting rid of, or not having to buy all those interconnects.

Many of us think that cables DO make a difference and are willing to spend pretty good money to get some good ones.

There are currently 6 interconnects, 3 component and one digital cable hooked up to my DVD-A player.

If I want to add an SACD player I have to buy a Denon 5803, or another processor that has two sets of at least 5.1 pre-ins, or I have to buy a Sony P9000es analog pre-amp.

If I go the Sony route, I have to have 6 IC's from my current HT processor for HT passthrough, 6 IC's to the amps, 6 IC's from the DVD-A player, and 6 IC's from the SACD player. Plus the digital cable and the component video cables.

That is a ship(t) load of cables.

If I go the Denon route, I will be buying amps I will not be needing (built into the Denon receiver), and I would still have 6 IC's from the SACD player and need 6 IC's from my DVD-A player. I would still need a digital cable from the DVD-A player.

Cable hell as Kal called it in the January Stereophile.

Also if you have your pro take care of the processing, you get time delay and bass mangement. Jitter doesn't appear to be a big problem in DD, or DTS, so I don't see it being a big problem for PCM, or DSD when done in the processor.

For me, a well made universal transport with a digital cable to the DAC or processor of my choice would be my short term dream.

EDIT: Will, you beat me to it! I must have been posting while you answered it.

 

[RAF]

I agree with the concept of processing the signal while still in the digital mode for bass management. However, until that becomes a reality then one way to handle multiple 5.1 (or more) analog signals (like from DVD-Audio and SACD) if you have separates (or at least a receiver wth the capacity to uncouple the pre/pro from the amp stages) is to use a single Outlaw ICBM between the pre/pro and the amps. Works like a charm on all signals. True, it's processing analog, but it's a nice way to cut down on wire clutter a bit until digital solutions come along.

The 950 has bass management for its 5.1 analog inputs but since it also has only one set of such inputs you still would need a solution like the ICBM for multiple 5.1 analog input bass management.

 

[Rob Curtis]

I will be the first to admit that I have been critical of the Outlaws lately, but they do deserve props.

The ICBM is a great help to those who need it.

Their IC cables are great for cheap $$$$ too.

 

[John Cain]

I got on the list at 10:02p the night they had the sign-up, so I guess I'm in the first batch.

Can't wait to get it.. The sooner the better..

-- John

 

[RAF]

I'm glad to hear that you signed up early for a 950, John. Also, I will predict that you won't be disappointed.

 

[Serge Breton]

I got on the list after work at 3:30AM on the first night of the 950 sign up, i emailed the Outlaws and was told that i was indeed in the first batch as well I feel bad for those late applicants found in the second batch though, they will unfortunately be in for a wait!