OUTLAW 950 order confirmation

Discussion in 'Archived Threads 2001-2004' started by Eric_Lakes, Sep 10, 2002.

  1. Eric_Lakes

    Eric_Lakes Agent

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    I just got this email from the OUTLAWS:
    "You are receiving this e-mail message because you had previously placed your name on our "reservation" list to be notified when the Model 950 is available for shipment. We are pleased to inform you that the Model 950 is now shipping and that we will have a unit available to ship to you within the next week....Your receipt of this message begins a 9-day window to place your order."
    AHHHHHH!!!! I have already spent all the $ that I have been saving for this... [​IMG] Is it worth the 19% if I put it on my Credit Card?
     
  2. Jason Pancake

    Jason Pancake Stunt Coordinator

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    I also just received my confirmation email. I reserved my 950 on 3/11 and my customer ID in the confirmation email is 2127. They are either moving REALLY fast or a lot of people have jumped ship.

    Also...
    I may be biased since I refuse to EVER carry a credit card balance but I would hold out and save up again for the 950. It will not only be much more rewarding but you will save a LOT of money compared to putting it on a 19% CC.

    Generally speaking...
    $899 on a 19% card paying $30/month will take 42 months (3.5 years!) to pay off and you will have paid $325 in interest for a grand total of $1224. Is it worth it? That's for you to decide...

    -Jason
     
  3. Brian Kleinke

    Brian Kleinke Supporting Actor

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    I finally got an e-mail too, but I'm not sure if I'll bother since I'm happy with my Sony ES preamp.

    Brian
     
  4. chung_sotheby

    chung_sotheby Supporting Actor

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    I think that a lot a people, myself included, have decided to jump ship because of the delay. If you all remember, the 950 was supposed to start shipping A YEAR AGO! Besides, the pre/pro/ssp market is moving so fast that the feature set of the Outlaw looks like everything else, and while they "fixed" the hiss issue, there is still a memory of poor reliability with the 950. All of this equates to spiteful hopefuls who have since left the waiting list.
     
  5. Bill Bradstreet

    Bill Bradstreet Stunt Coordinator

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    I'm trying to decide whether to take the 950 they have waiting for me or wait and buy a preamp later.

    On the subject of credit cards, the prior poster is correct about not carrying a balance. I see it a little differently. It is your decision, obviously, but I wouldn't do it unless you can pay it off in a month or two. If you are lucky, you can put it on a credit card that just sent you a bill. This would give you a month of 'free' money before any interest starts. A credit card should never be anything more than a short-term loan, in my opinion.

    I have the money to spend, but I've been spending a lot lately, and may choose to pass on the 950. I'm not getting a discount on it to buy it now, so maybe I'll just wait and put my name on the list again. I'm willing to wait a while longer. Maybe I'll end up with an RSP-1066 in the meantime. ;-)
     
  6. NickSP

    NickSP Supporting Actor

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    Eric, 19% Credit Card? Dude, haven't you heard about those 7-9% cards? Hope you are not serious. Well Anyway, no matter what the interest rate on the card is, as was said above, I'd wait till I can pay cash. Also you might want to wait to hear from the second wave of Outlaw 950 owners for new reported problems if any. What are you using now?
     
  7. Mary M S

    Mary M S Screenwriter

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    Besides, the pre/pro/ssp market is moving so fast that the feature set of the Outlaw looks like everything else, It appears to move faster each year but I still had not seen offered currently/ latest/ updated/ reportedly soon to be released/ any manufacture/ any model/ (include 3 months from today’s date) that has Outlaws feature set at Outlaws price point in separates.
    and while they "fixed" the hiss issue, there is still a memory of poor reliability with the 950.
    Not part of my experience.
    All of this equates to spiteful hopefuls who have since left the waiting list.
    Isn’t ‘spiteful hopefuls’ a bit of an oxymoron? I post on this forum in any 950 topic infrequently, after noting while scrolling in past times ‘hopeful waiters’ spitefully being spat upon.

    Mayhap the forum would run smoother in other areas if posters posting to the Discussion topic of a particular piece of hardware were requested to be those whom:
    A: are on a current waiting list
    B: intend to purchase and are researching
    C: have purchased and returned the product.
    D: have auditioned, are keeping the product and generating reviews and feedback.

    Maybe if there was a separate area for those whom:
    A: are not on a current waiting list
    B: have not purchased
    C: do not ever intend to purchase
    D: have never auditioned the product and have no firsthand feedback
    E: having decided not to purchase the product in question have purchased another product. Feel compelled to return to sites discussing the product they do not own with the seemingly unfathomable overriding purpose of attempting to discourage any one else from considering the product.

    I did not need ‘saving’ from my desire to purchase a 950 as I made this decision to order with all faculties intact. I am pleased to report in my subjective opinion the facts I can reliably offer as feedback to this question.

    I was on the wait list a long time: This was very hard at times at other time I kept ‘busy’.
    I shopped (mainly the web) during this lengthy wait but did not purchase.
    Even though various manufactures produced a few new products at market during this timeframe. Nothing appeared (to me) to match the 950’s feature set for its price/ described sound / reputed and documented excellent after-sale service.
    I was very excited to finally receive my 950.
    The first 950 I received I would estimate to be in use on the average of 8 hrs PD and for 3+ months has been utterly reliable.
    The second 950 I received has been in use averaging 4 hrs PD for almost a month and has been utterly reliable.
    The purchase was an upgrade to my antiquated PL system, and delightful to explore and use.
    The current crop of receivers/prepros that I have heard to date in B & M’s, have not exceeded or matched (to my ears) the sound of the 950. I should declare that none of the various models I have heard would include such ‘higher-end’ products at the level of the Lexicon MC 12 / McIntosh MX134 Preamp/Processor & MC206 Amplifier or the Krell KAV-250a and KAV-250a/3. (All products I am interested in).
    I would recommend purchase of a 950 to a personal friend or family member or to an audiophile for a test-drive. If budget did not allow the aforementioned Krell/Lexicon/ or McIntosh which I would assume hypothetically ‘should’ sound better than a 950.

    My suggestion to any who hung on the wait list till now. Order one and try it out in your rack, you can return it if it does not meet with your approval.

    To those that were on the wait list and dropped off yet seem compelled by some force to keep coming back to the discussion sites where purchasers and prospective purchasers of the 950 congregate. Is it possible you have some unresolved issues that might best be addressed by a demo of a 950 for yourself?

    I think if I was sitting on the fence I would tend to jump the posts detailing decisions not to purchase Outlaw, who have never heard one, don’t have any alternatives at its price to offer for your consideration. Yet contrary to the law of ‘each man is an island’ for some inexplicable reason greatly desire to ‘convince’ others to not purchase.

    Personally when I was making my decision to try a 950. I was grateful to see some very comprehensive charts of feature sets/prices offered on different prepro/amp combinations. I used these to select the features I desired at the price I was currently willing to fork over. I selected the 950 and waited/watched.
    I was encouraged by the beta testers favorable responses, and to a great extent ignored all speculative feedback, unless it documented comparisons of features/specifications which is my baseline starting point for considering any product.
    I was very pleased with my decision to wait.

    Happy hunting to all.
     
  8. David S

    David S Stunt Coordinator

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    Mary M S - great post. At first the comment "there is still a memory of poor reliability with the 950." caused a blip in me, but then I thought why bother.

    I'd say to Eric (sans your decision re: interest/19%/revolving balance), go for it. Its a great pre/pro at a fantastic price I'm sure you would be happy with. Sounds like your a budget conscience type guy anyways, so the $899 seems to make sense.
     
  9. BobRoulier

    BobRoulier Second Unit

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    I got mine too! I gave up waiting long ago and am quite happy with my pioneer elite 49tx[​IMG]
    But for those of you who are on the fence I would say go for it there isn't a pre-pro out there for that money that will sound as good as the 950, not that I have heard it but many rave about it. and if you aren't pleased then you can send it back[​IMG]
    Bob
     
  10. Bill Polley

    Bill Polley Second Unit

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    Lena?
     
  11. Eric_Lakes

    Eric_Lakes Agent

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    Thanks for the comments... But it's going to take me a while to save up the $900 again and Christmas is around the corner too [​IMG] And according some of the other threads, I'm going to need a $500 power cable upgrade also [​IMG]
    So for now, I'm dead in the water. I'm currently using one of those DVD + 5 speakers HT-in-a-box :b And I really dont want to pick up a cheap Receiver because I have no room to put it in afterwards. I have a Parasound 855 in the box and 4 polk M1 and center in boxes just waiting for a pre-amp [​IMG] At least the boxes will keep the dust out.:p)
     
  12. Trevor_J

    Trevor_J Second Unit

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    I got my letter too. The Outlaws are too late, I'm already enjoying my Rotel RSP 1066 [​IMG]
     
  13. AntonS

    AntonS Stunt Coordinator

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    Eric, as you already have an amp, you can pick H/K 520 from onecall.com and use it as pre/pro. They run very good special at the moment. I'm not sure if they finance (something like 0% for few months), but you can ask.
    520 has pretty good preamp section (on par with 950), assignable amps, more powerful DSPs that can process all the channel delays correctly (something that 950 cannot do.) You will also have no problems will double bass, unlike with Outlaw. Icing on the cake will be Logic 7 for 2 channel inputs.

    Btw, I got my letter too, but it's about 6 months late.
     
  14. dave alan

    dave alan Second Unit

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    i waited six months. not because i thought it was a fun thing to do. to the contrary, i tried everything in my power to find a comparable alternative.

    rotel...they e-mailed me with a dealer in my city. the number was changed. i called the new number. the guy said they had just merged with another company and would no longer carry the rotel line. the next nearest dealer was 65 miles away, but could not ship the unit, as rotel's policy is that the dealer "must physically put it in your hands".

    i actually thought i might drive all that way and buy one. that guy told me the price was $1600 and he didn't have any in stock. so...i should drive there, pay for it, drive home and wait til he got it in and drive back so that he could "physically put it in my hands".

    ....right. but then, all you rotelites know all of this. i ordered my 950 today. $899 + shipping. no tax. 30 day money back audition. 5 years parts and labor warranty included. and...in case a friend comes over who owns a 1066, i can dial up some groovy hits on the tuner.

    mary....was that bitterly hopeful enough?
     
  15. TomH

    TomH Second Unit

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    Bill,

    I currently have a 950 with minor hiss and must make a decision to either return it or have it repaired. My dealer finally had a 1066 on display so I was able to compare. I found the appearance average, certainly no better than the Outlaw. Features are comparable with the Rotel weak on specs. I just cannot see any justification for the $600.00 difference in price. Even if they were priced within $100.00 of each other it would be be a toss up.
    I was not aware of "reliability" problems with the Outlaw.

    Tom
     
  16. Tony Genovese

    Tony Genovese Supporting Actor

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    From where do the 950s ship? I ordered mine ground 'cause I'm in Massachusetts and shipping from NH is one day. Of course, if they're shipping from some warehouse in CA, then I'm in trouble [​IMG]. I tried calling the Outlaws, but I kept getting an answering machine.
     
  17. Orin Dym

    Orin Dym Stunt Coordinator

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    Got the E-mail and also had to decide--do I order? I placed the order even though I had already purchased a preamp (Audio Refinement Pre-2) because I figured hey, 30 days in home to hear and see how it compares to the AR and then its decision time. If the 950 does not measure up, then I can return it, and If it is better than the AR, then I can sell it.
     
  18. chung_sotheby

    chung_sotheby Supporting Actor

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    Mary, to respond:
    It appears to move faster each year but I still had not seen offered currently/ latest/ updated/ reportedly soon to be released/ any manufacture/ any model/ (include 3 months from today’s date) that has Outlaws feature set at Outlaws price point in separates.
    If you had really read my post as it was intended, at no point did I mention the price point of the Outlaw.

    Isn’t ‘spiteful hopefuls’ a bit of an oxymoron? I post on this forum in any 950 topic infrequently, after noting while scrolling in past times ‘hopeful waiters’ spitefully being spat upon.
    Actually, this is in no way an oxymoron. Being spiteful does not mean being spat upon, it means being annoyed, irritated, or angered. So a hopeful owner could, in a way, feel angered at the numerous delays and reported problems with the units. But, to Outlaws credit, they never tried to hand out excuses for the delays or the problems, they just told it like it was, with honesty, and tried to do the best with their situation.

    did not need ‘saving’ from my desire to purchase a 950 as I made this decision to order with all faculties intact. I am pleased to report in my subjective opinion the facts I can reliably offer as feedback to this question.

    Mary, in no way am I trying to "save" people from purchasing the 950, I am just stating my own subjective opinion, so before you make a judgement, try really reading the whole post for what it is. Not everyone is trying to kill Outlaw, which is what Outlaw supporters like yourself sometimes think, but they are just stating their own subjective opinions on their own experiences with a company.

    And Mary, with your whole "two groups" thing, which one would you lump me into, considering that I am on the current waiting list, and am looking to one day purchase and try out the Outlaw?
    As for the "memory of poor reliability," this is completely true, as prospective buyers, especially those who have been on the waiting list and have read all the Outlaw updates in eager anticipation, have seen the numerous chip-board and hiss issues pop up, and many are still hesitant to buy a product that had such a long delay because of reliability issues (granted, it was probably only for about 5% of the units, but one small hissing issue goes a long way).
    I find it so funny the way that people always have to defend their purchases by going against anyone who might have a sliver of a differing opinion. Sometimes people are just a little too sensitive, and should know that no matter what, there is always better sounding systems, and better values, than what they got. And by value, I am not measuring it strictly on a price vs. performance basis, but also on other criteria which cannot have a price put on it.
     
  19. Tony Genovese

    Tony Genovese Supporting Actor

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    Got the bad news. The unit shipped from El Cerrito, California, so I'm SOL until the 17th. Oh well.
     
  20. Mary M S

    Mary M S Screenwriter

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    Dear Chung, sorry that I misinterpreted your sentence: Besides, the pre/pro/ssp market is moving so fast that the feature set of the Outlaw looks like everything else.
    I took it to intend ‘dated and behind the curve’. I have followed the argument revolving around a similar topic these last months extensively, What I thought you were referring to is an on-going discussion I have watched on prior days. I had concluded those musing appear based on flawed reasoning when they attempt to tie the Outlaw’s revised shipping dates with vague indictments suggesting that Outlaw is ‘behind’ everything else. Regardless Outlaw was delayed, how can the product be dated or behind when the practical reality is that the market still offers nothing comparable? Early or Late… when you are the first out the gate at a particular price / feature set then logically it follows (to me) that your product is ‘ahead’ of the pack. I therefore conclude that the other manufactures still have some ‘catching up’ to do. And I am firmly supportive of Outlaws success as I believe it will have direct impact on creating market pressure favorable to the A/V consumer as a whole.
    Regarding ‘spiteful’: Sorry yet again for that mistake, I used my default reaction to ‘spiteful’ where I class it as a word category denoting ‘action’ relative to hateful/vindictive/malicious/vicious/venomous. I read it as an attempt to punish or payback for a perceived injury. Not in the sense you intended when you reply you meant a ‘feeling’ you simply experience similar to disappointment, annoyance or the stronger sensation of anger.
    I was playing sound-alike word games with the ‘spate’ part. (I play too much).
    I grow concerned when I spot wordage painting broader strokes of generalized terms that tend to illicit certain negative emotional responses when used freely and repeatedly surrounding these type discussions. I can be sensitive when I read input along those lines which does not flesh out specific illustrations to add any objectivity to the point being made. While all opinions on the sound and performance of hardware is subjectively given, as I do have an objectively concrete 950 in my rack, which could care less what I think of it when I power it up, - It just does what it does!
    And many are still hesitant to buy a product that had such a long delay because of reliability issues.
    I felt like replying with specifics regarding its performance for me. I have pretty much set up camp on the Outlaw site (poor guys) and there has been no behavior in its performance I have noted which would cause me to label the 950’s as unreliable. In all instances but one, (excepting the ‘hiss’ issue) the few reported problems reported were DITW shipped units, of which I am told by friends who have indulged this passion for more years than I, is a regular occurrence to a certain percentile in all products shipped.
    Hiss = reliability issues is your only statement where I will still beg to differ. I am committing audiophile heretical suicide (lower Noise Floor ratio = better sound) , but deep breath and here I go:
    I Personally feel the Outlaws shot themselves in the foot by halting the line when the Hiss was reported.
    In their efforts to please the more demanding of listeners they were over-aggressively (for their own corporate well-being) attempting to strive to greatly to-wards the perfect product.
    To me the original ‘hiss’, which my first unit displayed (as loud as any documented), I would categorize as purely AS/N, and has always been a spec ‘level’ related issue.
    We are not talking power up your speakers and they squeal like piglets type of problem, the loudest hiss reported by users has always appeared to me to relate to having a lower measured AS/N spec. I have never seen prepro/receiver specs which list a high AS/N level, where consumers start throwing around ‘broke’ ‘malfunctioning’ or ‘unreliable’ terminology.
    The whole ‘Hiss’ issue on the 950 has been pretty well documented (by my calculations) to exist as a noise floor ratio which exhibits to greater and lesser degrees all over the AV market.
    The majority of hissy 950’s have had to be put in a ‘forced’ unrealistic Modus Operandi, to even begin to hear it, with only a minuet number exhibiting hiss faintly heard to seating distances if the room was quiet.
    I’m talking +10 / no source playing, - to even find evidence of it. While this will arguably interject more noise into the final output, audiophiles seem to have displayed tolerance for these levels to different degrees in the past according to many posts I have read. This noise floor in addition seems to affect only the analogue not the digital domain when using the 950, creating no impact at all while in HT type usage, under which load the 950 was in its first offering dead quiet.
    If I had been in charge of Outlaw, the product would have continued out the door, with raised noise floor # listed on a revamped spec sheet. While it may not have had the distinction of being one of the lower rated in that area if outlaw had continued shipping. The first 950’s, were in totality exceedingly well-rounded and sonically pleasing units based on (as you detail) “other criteria” points of the performance issue.
    always better sounding systems Agreed!!!. What keeps the AV guys in business and all of us in trouble balancing budgets! I apologize if I came out too strongly but even as men occasionally I fight that urge Mencken describes when "Every normal man must be tempted at times to spit upon his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats." [​IMG]
    Dave A: Was that bitterly hopeful enough?
    As Douglas Adams said: I may not have gone where I intended to go, but I think I have ended up where I intended to be."
    Bill P: Lena? yes still at play in the fields of AV!
    Eric: But it's going to take me a while to save up the $900 again and Christmas is around the corner too.
    …Please don’t remind me [​IMG] I have to do all the shopping for that holiday and I detest malls….
    Good luck with the funding! I’m having to redirect some of mine right now to do...when I really wanted to do was….
     

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