Outlaw 950 and Universal Players - Set-up Question

Discussion in 'AV Receivers' started by Brian L, Aug 14, 2003.

  1. Brian L

    Brian L Cinematographer

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    A question for 950 owners that also have either universal players like the Pioneer 45/47/563, Denon 2900, or players that combined DVD-V with either DVD-A or SACD (like the Denon 1600).

    1. Do you have any issues calibrating bass level from the analog outs of the universal players connected to the 5.1 Ext. Inputs vs. digital sources decoded within the 950?

    2. If so, how do you get the bass levels balanced between 5.1 Ext. sources, and sources decoded within the 950?

    This question relates to the issue that many users of these players have with low level of the sub channel (combined LFE and redirected bass, or just the LFE channel when BM is not used in the player) compared to the main channels.

    My 45A exhibits this, and it appears that many owners of other players have seen this behavior as well. I have separate level trims for the 5.1 inputs on my AVR, so I currently can get around the problem easily.

    But, I have gear lust. I am sitting on the fence right now trying to decide between buying a 950 (which I would use primarily as an outboard decoder with my existing AVR), or an entirely new AVR (the NAD 762 is currently high on the list).

    What is holding me back from the Outlaw is that it only has a single set of global channel level adjustments, which would seem to make it difficult to get the sub/LFE channel properly balanced between sources when using one of these uni-players.

    While I could adjust trims in the player, that does not appear to be the correct location for the +10 boost commonly required , since I am NOT using the BM in the player and use an ICBM for that purpose (the boost should be applied after the redirected bass is summed).

    I have had some correspondence with Kevin C. Brown, who has used a 950 with a 45A, but he and I are in disagreement as to wether or not the boost is required. My tests show that it does, but he has also tested with opposite results. We are currently in a friendly disagreement on that count.

    Surely there are other owners of these players that also have a 950, and surely they will have had to deal with this issue,if their player is affected.

    I have posed this question to Outlaw, but have not gotten the usual speedy reply as yet.

    Thanks for your comments.

    BGL
     
  2. Lewis Besze

    Lewis Besze Producer

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    I have the 950 and the Denon 2900,calibration was easy almost plug and play.
    I'm not sure what's your disagreement with Kevin but SACD/DVD-A MC music don't require any kind of boost.
    DD and DTS does but that should be handled by the 950 anyway.
     
  3. Brian L

    Brian L Cinematographer

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  4. Lewis Besze

    Lewis Besze Producer

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  5. Brian L

    Brian L Cinematographer

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  6. Lewis Besze

    Lewis Besze Producer

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  7. Kevin C Brown

    Kevin C Brown Producer

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    Lewis- I promised Brian, that end of Aug, beg of Sept, I'll get out the trusty Radio Shack meter and do a table of the following levels:

    1) Chesky DVD-A analog from player
    2) Chesky DVD-V analog from player
    3) Chesky DVD-V digital from player
    4) Avia analog from player
    5) Avia digitally from player

    As far as I can tell, the way the MC-8 does things is exactly like the 950, i.e., the levels cals also also affect the 5.1 analog inputs.

    I believe the measurements that Brian got, but I'm curious to do a direct comparison of all the above myself. The sub's *test tone* is low in the 45a/47ai, but my system seems to balance OK between DVD-V and DVD-A/SACD using test discs.
     
  8. Brian L

    Brian L Cinematographer

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    Its cool that your player has some facilities to adress this (although you don't seem to need them), but +15 on the SACD format? That is a ton!

    Denon seems to be the only vendor that sort of acknowledges that there are level balance issues and gives you the tools in both the players and the receivers to deal with it.

    Interesting though is that I have a diagram that Espen pointed out from Dolby labs. It shows that the main channels are attentuated by 15 dB before they are summed, and that the LFE channel is attentuated by 5 dB before it is summed.

    Then there is a single +15 boost on the combined sub channel. If I understand that correctly, the main channel bass would be at unity gain relative to their original level, while the LFE would be at +10 relative to its original level.

    I wonder if the +15 for SACD is in some way related to stuff going on in the DD deocder? Perhaps some decoding functions are in some way combined?

    BGL
     
  9. Lewis Besze

    Lewis Besze Producer

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