Outlaw 950 - already dated?

Discussion in 'Archived Threads 2001-2004' started by Razvan V, Dec 30, 2001.

  1. Razvan V

    Razvan V Stunt Coordinator

    Joined:
    Aug 28, 2000
    Messages:
    164
    Likes Received:
    0
    I'm on the waiting list for the Outlaw 950 and I was wondering if the news that the firewire connections for DVD-Audio and DVD-Video have been approved have rendered this yet to be released unit obsolete ( the Outlaw won't have firewire inputs). Do you think that it would be smarter to pass on the 950 and wait a few more months for, say, Outlaw's high end preamp? Or do you know of any preamps that have firewire inputs or can be upgraded to have such inputs? On the Integra Research RDC-7 site it's written that "One of the first upgrades is software for a planned IEEE-1394 Firewire interface. The software will support a connector card that plugs into a bay on the back of the RDC-7. Once this is installed, the RDC-7 will have three IEEE-1394 connectors to support a broad range of new technology components." It would seem that the RDC-7 is firewire upgradeable. Are there any other preamps that are firewire upgradeable? The B&K Ref 30?

    Razvan
     
  2. Kevin T

    Kevin T Screenwriter

    Joined:
    Jul 12, 2001
    Messages:
    1,402
    Likes Received:
    1
    do you have a link to the article about the firewire approval. i've been wondering about this for a while and i'm quite intrigued to read any more info there may be. thanks.

    kevin t
     
  3. Razvan V

    Razvan V Stunt Coordinator

    Joined:
    Aug 28, 2000
    Messages:
    164
    Likes Received:
    0
    Kevin,

    Do a search for the thread "DVD-Video & DVD-Audio Digital Interface announced ", the link is there.

    Razvan
     
  4. Kevin T

    Kevin T Screenwriter

    Joined:
    Jul 12, 2001
    Messages:
    1,402
    Likes Received:
    1
    yeah, i saw it just a few seconds after i read your post. been engrossed reading the articles at the site link. thanks anyway.

    kevin t
     
  5. Chip E

    Chip E Screenwriter

    Joined:
    Nov 25, 2000
    Messages:
    1,165
    Likes Received:
    0
    Raz,
    I have an idea for ya... hold off a few months and see if there will be a Ref 40! [​IMG]
     
  6. Derrick G

    Derrick G Stunt Coordinator

    Joined:
    Jun 4, 2001
    Messages:
    52
    Likes Received:
    0
    The Anthem AVM-20 is provisioned for it When a standard is set it will be upgradable. I'm not sure but I don't think the Ref 30 is.

    Derrick G
     
  7. Dan Hine

    Dan Hine Screenwriter

    Joined:
    Oct 3, 2000
    Messages:
    1,312
    Likes Received:
    0
    I have not read the document but from what the article says this sounds more to me like an option, not our only choice. It reads to me that there will be a digital interface for DVD-Audio but the article doesn't say that there will no longer be analog outputs. If I'm right (feel free to correct me if I'm wrong) then the 950 or for that matter all receivers/pre amps that people are using for dvd-audio will not be obsolete just a tad outdated. But hey, if it works it works! [​IMG]
    Dan Hine
     
  8. Doug_B

    Doug_B Screenwriter

    Joined:
    Feb 11, 2001
    Messages:
    1,081
    Likes Received:
    0
    I knew a guy who held off more than 2 years buying a VCR in the late 80's waiting for who knows what. So if the 950 actually ships in our lifetimes, you're now going to hold off worried about obsolescence? Maybe a pre/pro is not in your cards then [​IMG] .
    I guess if a manufacturer has a pre/pro architecture that supports replacement/additional processing cards and has room for additional external interfaces, it's always a possibility that they can support something like firewire down the road. As stated above, Anthem has "reserved" such a space on the rear of the AVM 20 for such an interface (but no guarantees).
     
  9. GordonL

    GordonL Supporting Actor

    Joined:
    Feb 14, 2000
    Messages:
    771
    Likes Received:
    0
     
  10. Craig F

    Craig F Second Unit

    Joined:
    Jul 5, 2001
    Messages:
    276
    Likes Received:
    0
    Real Name:
    Craig
    Outlaw has announced the 950 would never have any kind of digital DVD-A interface. It is one of the reasons the high-end PrePro has been put on indefinite hold.
     
  11. Razvan V

    Razvan V Stunt Coordinator

    Joined:
    Aug 28, 2000
    Messages:
    164
    Likes Received:
    0
    Anthony,

    I have two Sony TA-N9000ES amps, no receiver, no preamp, so right now I can't listen to music or watch DVD's in 5.1. I want a preamp that sounds good and that won't be dated in a few months. That would be the Integra Research RDC-7 but it's very expensive. The high end Outlaw preamp would also be nice at $1500 - $2000 but who knows if and when they're going to release it?

    Doug,

    Because of the firewire news several people are on "hardware - upgrade hold". Most of these people would like to buy gear with future firewire capability. I myself don't want to buy the 950 just to find out a few months later that it's obsolete. I don't think that the Outlaws will delay the 950 some more but if they do it in order to include firewire capability I'm willing to wait.

    Razvan
     
  12. Will

    Will Guest

    The firmware needed to handle the new digital DVD-audio

    interface inside DVD players and pre/pro's (which has to

    be debugged and integrated with the rest of the pre/pro

    including its bass management and time delay) probably

    won't ship to consumers, before the second half of 2002.

    One reason I like the Outlaw pre/pro over others costing

    three times as much is when the $900 pre/pro is obsolute,

    we can hopefully buy a new $900 pre/pro, throw away

    the obsolete $900 pre/pro, and you're still ahead, compared

    to buying a pre/pro today that costs three times as much.

    One thing I won't be buying from Outlaw is an ICBM or lots

    of their analog cables for the 950's soon-to-be-obsolete

    analog DVD-A interface.

    I'll also be expecting to buy a new DVD player when the

    DVD-A digital interface becomes mainstream. Again, I think

    the firmware software needed to handle the digital interface

    probably won't be available in consumer DVD players and

    consumer pre/pro's before the second half of 2002.
     
  13. Martice

    Martice Screenwriter

    Joined:
    Jan 20, 2001
    Messages:
    1,077
    Likes Received:
    0
    Obsolete? 5.1 isn't even obsolete last I checked. However, you still have people running around here as if 6.1 & 7.1 has made 5.1 obsolete. wOnly when most of the movies are encoded in 7.1 will I feel that 5.1 is the older and less effective format. Hell, those analog inputs on the 5.1 DD & DTS receivers released years ago haven't had a use regarding upgrades yet but I still remember people responding to the sales quote "to top it off it's upgradable for any future formats". The truth seems to more likey be that we will never really have a use for those inputs and that we've been had by a clever marketing scheme.

    The best part about the Outlaw 950 is that it won't break most peoples banks to purchase and it shouldn't break your heart to sell it if it becomes "obsolete" by some of us who feel that despite what software and hardware support suggests, that they must have the newest and the latest.

    To each his own I guess.
     
  14. Evan S

    Evan S Cinematographer

    Joined:
    Nov 21, 2001
    Messages:
    2,210
    Likes Received:
    0
    Martice, I agree wholeheartedly.

    For $900 hopefully we are all getting a great sounding unit that "does what it does", for what that's worth.

    If you want Firewire capability and "non-obsolencence", then get the Integra! For $900, you can't complain with what Outlaw includes or doesn't include. It's $900 for crying out loud! I expect this unit to sound WAY better than it's price point, but I don't expect it to warm up my car in the morning or make me my cup of coffee either.

    I think expectations are way out of proportion for this unit. It's NOT a Ref 30 or an MC-12 or a $3,000 processor. It's a $900 unit. If it doesn't deliver what you want, don't get it. For me, it's going to serve me just fine for the next 3-5 years. Then if I get an upgrade bug for future formats or compatability, I'll get another pre-pro. Simple as that.
     
  15. Will

    Will Guest

     
  16. Razvan V

    Razvan V Stunt Coordinator

    Joined:
    Aug 28, 2000
    Messages:
    164
    Likes Received:
    0
    Evan,

    The Outlaws wrote that "Our initial testing tells us that the noise floor is incredibly low and that all other "techy" specs are equal to, or better than, products costing two to three times as much as the 950 in both analog and digital performance." So they themselves invited comparisons to the B&K Ref 30. In light of this statement why shouldn't I expect the 950 to sound as good as the B&K Ref 30?

    About the firewire inputs: the Outlaws could release two versions of the 950:

    1. the 950 in 2 or 3 weeks and

    2. the 951 in, say, March with DTS 96/24 and future firewire capability for $1000 - 1100.

    I would be willing to wait for the 951 and pay an extra $200 for it.

    Razvan
     
  17. Rob Curtis

    Rob Curtis Stunt Coordinator

    Joined:
    May 13, 2001
    Messages:
    102
    Likes Received:
    0
    Razvan,
    Here are some answers for you from the Outlaws...
    http://www.outlawaudio.com/support/faq_future.html
    Q. When you first announced the Outlaw Processors, there was talk of two models, not one. I heard that you abandoned the "high end" processor. Is that true?
    A. ABSOLUTELY NOT! Although our engineering efforts have been concentrated on the ICBM and the Model 950, we are still working on a second processor preamp. Indeed, the Model 950 design process itself made it obvious that there were certain things that we could not include in that product. Some, such as the inclusion of DTS 96/24 decoding could not make it into the 950 due to the delay that would require while we wait for the availability of software code that is compatible with our processor. Other items, such as 1394 connectivity and full flash-upgradeable software would simply not be possible in today's environment and still allow us to meet our target price along with the required audio specifications. Yet another group of items would require the availability of either a new DSP decoder platform or the resolution of techno-political issues whose ultimate outcome is too far off in the distance. You can place direct digital connection to DVD-A or SACD players and similar functionality into that bucket. The bottom line is that there is only so far anyone * even the Outlaws * can go and meet an $899 price point and still deliver the product this year and make a small profit. We're just beginning to plan the timing and cost of the higher end product, and we'll keep you posted as we move closer
     
  18. Will

    Will Guest

     
  19. Razvan V

    Razvan V Stunt Coordinator

    Joined:
    Aug 28, 2000
    Messages:
    164
    Likes Received:
    0
    Well, I was thinking of 3 preamps:

    1. the 950 with no changes, available in 2 or 3 weeks.

    2. the 951 which would be just the 950 + DTS 96/24 + firewire capability to be released later ( March, April?) for a higher price ( $1000 - $1100).

    3. the high-end preamp - say the 970 - available in a year or so. This would have all the features of the 951 + the latest goodies ( say DPLIII and something like Logic 7) + better parts, DAC's etc. Price $1500 - $2000.

    I myself would be willing to wait for the 951.

    Razvan
     
  20. Razvan V

    Razvan V Stunt Coordinator

    Joined:
    Aug 28, 2000
    Messages:
    164
    Likes Received:
    0
    Will,

    You never know. What if at the CES in Vegas other manufacturers announce their new preamps with firewire capability and DTS 96/24 to be released in Spring for a price of, say, $1200? Then the 950 is kaputt unless the Outlaws come up fast with un upgraded version of the 950 or the high-end preamp. Maybe they thought of this scenario and have something in store for us.

    Razvan
     

Share This Page