Outlaw 1050 shutting off. Power to blame?

Discussion in 'Archived Threads 2001-2004' started by Chris Smith, Dec 3, 2001.

  1. Chris Smith

    Chris Smith Stunt Coordinator

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    I'm having a small problem with my Outlaw receiver, but I'm not sure, in fact I doubt that it is the Outlaws fault.

    My Outlaw 1050 shuts off during high volume scenes. With the audio at about 50, the receiver shuts off (turns off, goes into protected, I'm not sure exactly) during loud scenes, such as when Laura Croft is fighting the Buddah monster in Tomb Raider and when Michael Douglas is in a car chase with Sharon Stone in Basic Instinct.

    I think, and am checking with you guys, that power is to blame. I'm currently at college and renting a very old house with very bad power (so I can't really do anything to the power). There are only four fuses for the entire house, and all are 30 amp (three really, since the dryer is on its own and luckily we haven't blown one yet.) We also just moved the entertainment system from one half of the room to the other half, BUT there are no plugs where we moved it to, so we had to run an extension cord. Its a mess, but it is the best that we could do given the circumstances (we had to move it for space reasons).

    First question,

    Could it be the extension cord and will getting a better one help? Also, since I know VERY little about electricity, could running two cords, one for each plug in the outlet help with the load? I'm currently running EVERYTHING off of one plug, with a couple of surge supressor outlet strips plugged in.

    Second question,

    Would a power conditioner help?

    Third Question,

    Am I missing something else that it could be entirely.

    I know that some of you will cringe reading this and I know that this is not, by a long shot, the best way to run some decent equipment, but I don't have much of a choice, so I'm trying to do what I can to make it the best and hope that I don't mess up my stuff too much in the next few months (I graduate in May so I won't have to worry about THIS house after that.)
     
  2. BryanZ

    BryanZ Screenwriter

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    What all is on the circuit that the Outlaw is on? TV, dvd, external amp, refridgerator, microwave, etc?

    What speakers are you using and what is their efficiency?
     
  3. SamRoza

    SamRoza Stunt Coordinator

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    Usually when a receiver goes into a "protected"

    state, it's doing just that...protecting itself. I'd guess that there was an impedance issue, or a short at your speakers, or you're just overdriving the amps in the outlaw and they're too hot. If the receiver is just shutting off, then I'd say that there's a major dip in voltage and it can't sustain operation, but protection circuitry being enabled is bad news.

    Running only one extension cord instead of two only increases the likelyhood that you'll blow a breaker in the powerstrips, or overheat the cords, so I'd say that definitely wasn't it.

    THat's my only guess with the info you provided.

    Sam
     
  4. Chris Smith

    Chris Smith Stunt Coordinator

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    The speakers I am using are the Adire 281s for my mains and my center and then the mains from the Kenwood HTB503 for the surrounds and the center from the 503 for the center surround. I do not know the exact efficency but am told that they are VERY efficient speakers, and hopefully someone else can chime in here.
    I'm not 100% sure of what is on that particular circuit. If I had to guess, I would guess that the Microwave is (but we have never run that and had a problem with the speaker going off), and the stove (electric gas stove, just uses the electricity for the spark, instead of having a pilot light.) Also TV Sony Cube PVM-2530, DVD Pioneer dv-333, VCR JVC 3500, sub from the 503, a computer (mp3 machine, no monitor) Celeron 333 (the later ALL running from a few 8 strip surge suppressors plugged into the extension cord). Probably a couple of lights too, but we usually don't have them on either when watching TV.
    Since I'm just renting this place, I have no real idea what is on that circuit. I don't think the refrigrator is, but it might be. Does anyone know of a way to find out w/o pulling fuses and seeing if it shuts off [​IMG] ?
    Thanks!
     
  5. Jeffrey_Jones

    Jeffrey_Jones Second Unit

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    Chris,

    Are you blowing a fuse when the receiver is shutting down or is it just the receiver? Is anything else in the house shutting down during operation?

    Does this same thing happen when listening to demanding music at high volumes? You might try turning off your TV, cable, DVD, etc and just running your receiver/CD player at high volumes to see what happens.

    Thanks,

    Jeff
     
  6. Mike_A

    Mike_A Stunt Coordinator

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    correct me if i'm wrong, but aren't the Adire 281's 4ohm speakers? have you checked that the outlaw impedance selector is in the 4ohm position?
     
  7. Chris Smith

    Chris Smith Stunt Coordinator

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    Jeff,

    I have not tried loud music, but will in the next few days (stupid finals, don't have time to try everything I need too.)

    The receiver is the only thing that shuts off. I can even just hit the power button on the remote and it will come right back on. The TV, DVD / everything else stays on.

    Mike,

    the 281's ARE 4 ohm and I have the selector switch set to that. According to the manual, since the mains and the center are 4 ohm, that is what the switch should be set to, even though the surrounds are 8 ohm.

    Sam and everyone else,

    Do you know how to tell if the receiver is just shutting off or if it is going into protected mode? Are they the same thing? I know that when I incorrectly hooked up an old sony receiver to some speakers and it kept going into protected mode, a little light came on saying "protected" and i had to shut it off and turn it back on from the receiver itself. I'll have to look in the manual after work to figure out if it is protected mode or just voltage drop.
     
  8. SamRoza

    SamRoza Stunt Coordinator

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    If the unit just turns off, goes into standby mode and you can turn it on right away, it's probably not protected.

    If a light flashes, or you can feel that it's hot as hell, or it makes you wait for a few minutes to turn it back on, then it's probably protected.

    Now, if it's a power issue, then you can probably fix part of this by removing the Subwoofer from the same circuit as the receiver. Subs(their amps, actually) are very easy to drain a circuit of it's power. Just like in car audio, where "Stiffening caps" are used to make sure there is adequate storage of power for the deep bass tracks.

    I believe they have a product for the home like a stiffening cap, but I don't know. Best bet right now is to find the nearest circuit that's not on the HT right now and plug the sub into it. THen see if it will still do it.

    Sam
     
  9. Chris Smith

    Chris Smith Stunt Coordinator

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    I haven't tried music yet, but I thought that I'd let you know what I did try. I turned off the sub yet at the exact same spot (down to the second) my outlaw shuts off with the volume above 45. Below 45 (around 42 or lower) it stays on no problem. Wierd.
     
  10. Wayne A. Pflughaupt

    Moderator

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    Chris,
    I can assure you that your problem is not the power. If so you would see lights dimming during those explosive scenes (you might try leaving them on to see if this happens). But even then, I’ve never heard of a receiver or amp shutting off when voltage drops. Typically they just put out less power.
    As Sam mentioned, when it goes into protect mode it is doing it because the amp is being overdriven, and usually that is an impedance situation. The first thing I said to myself when I read your post was, “What is the impedance of the speakers?”
    I’m sure that’s what your problem is, Chris. Even though the Outlaw is “supposed” to be able to operate at 4-ohms, it really isn’t if it has one of those ohm switches. A “real” power amp rated for 4-ohm operation doesn’t have one of these switches. All the switch does is limit the current-delivery capability of the amp (i.e., it engages resistors to make the amplifier “see” an easier load).
    You also have to keep in mind that a speaker’s impedance rating is nominal. In actuality, impedance varies at different frequencies. The “problem” with 4-ohm speakers (especially with a marginal amplifier) is that at certain frequencies impedance can easily drop to 2-ohms, or even lower. Putting a bunch of these on a single amp will easily overdrive all but the most robust amplifiers.
    An example: I used to have some 6x9 car speakers (remember those? [​IMG]) that would send any amp I used them with into protect with bass-heavy material at high volumes—and one of those was stable at 2-ohms. I had no way to verify this, but I figured the problem was that the speakers had a very low impedance at certain low frequencies, which was more than the amps could handle.
    So Chris, the bad news is you are going to have to either ditch those speakers or run the system at a lower volume. Maybe it would help to engage the compression (“Night Listening” or similarly labeled).
    Happy Holidays,
    Wayne A. Pflughaupt
     
  11. Chris Smith

    Chris Smith Stunt Coordinator

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    I thought I'd let everyone know what was the problem. Scott from outlaw audio's customer support emailed me after seeing this thread. He told me to look for shorts on each channel. There was a short in the right surround! Duh, something I should've looked at before, right?? At least it is fixed now! Thanks all for your help and another BIG THANKS to the customer support of Outlaw!
     
  12. Wayne A. Pflughaupt

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    See, I was right, it was an impedance problem. A short = zero ohms! [​IMG]
    Happy Holidays,
    Wayne A. Pflughaupt
     
  13. SamRoza

    SamRoza Stunt Coordinator

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