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Discussion in 'AV Receivers' started by Alex_C, May 20, 2003.
I've read a lot about the Denon but haven't seen a whole lot on any other one receiver.
From your three current threads, it seems clear that you (1) first ought to identify precisely what you need in a receiver and (2) then audition units with the right features. The Denon 2803 may or may not be the right unit for you.
If you started with a list of features, then we could make some recommendations.
First and foremost: do you need a 7-channel receiver?
If not, I'd stop right there and look at another Denon piece and compare others based on that piece's feature-set.
If you do need a 7-channel receiver, then you have (@ MSRP $1000 or less)...
H/K 325 or 525
And others from Marantz, Yamaha, etc.
At that point, you have to do a feature-comparison among the units, and some test-driving. For my money, if I were looking for a 7-channel piece, I'd have H/K, Denon and Sony ES on my short-list. I'm just not as familiar with the other brands.
I don't think I need 6.1 unless someone says it's much better than 5.1. I don't want to get a 5.1 and then kick myself because I want 6.1/7.1 though. Is 6.1/7.1 really better?
Just guessing but from your posts sounds like you need basics and would like the OPTION to go 6.1 if you want. Your room may dicate if you are even able to go 6.1. If it is a very small room or your couch is right up against a wall or window 5.1 is about all you can get.
I would suggest that 2803 might be more than you need. Look at the 1803 from Denon. It is 6X80w so if you want 6.1 later you have the option. The big advantage 2803 has is 10 watts more (not a lot) and a lot more features. If all you wanna do is watch DVD this would do the trick and be even less expensive (leaving more money for a 6th speaker if you choose)
there are lots of choices around the same price as the 2803 but it sounds to me like you don't need to be in that high a price bracket
My room is pretty big: 22'x25'. I guess I'd like to the option of 6.1.
I was thinking of the 2802(because it's cheaper). But there's all these nifty names of things the 2803 can do, none of which I understand. I guess there's two things I need to address.
1. Features - If I get a 2802 or other brand, will I lose features that I may want/need that are on the 2803?
2. Sound - if I get a 2802 will there be a noticable sound quality difference?
What other brand/model is comparable to the 2803? or the 2802.
Thanks for all your help. I'm so new at this I don't even know the questions to ask.
Alex- Receiver models come and go. The features of the 2803 may be more appealing than the 2802 but the sound quality will be the same. Weigh these receivers against the features you must have and against the features you might want six months from now. If the price difference is only the cost of a few CD's, the 2803 may be the best buy for you. Also realise that in 6-12 months there will no doubt be a 2804 which will be a little different in its features, but soundwise-no change. Bottom line, no reason to fret or delay your purchase decision. Good luck, Jack
i think the biggest difference betweent he 2802 and 2803 are the dual rear center and the single rear center.
i would skip the 1803, i think the 1803 is still considered low current, and the 2803 is high current.
The 2803 has 7 amps > The 2802 has 6 amps.
The 2803 has DD EX & DTS ES > The 2802 just has DTS ES.
The 2803 can assign 2 channels for a powered 2nd zone whereas the 2802 can't.
The 2803 has an assignable 12-volt trigger whereas the 2802 doesn't.
The 2803 has adjustable bas x-over's of 40/60/80/100/120Hz, the 2802 only has 80/100/120Hz.
The 2803 has seven sets of composite/s-video connections vs five sets for the 2802.
You've already said 6 amps is OK, so you'll have to decide about the others. Not sure why you'd need DD EX with DTS ES already. Are you going to have remote speakers in another room? Do you care about triggering another device? Do you have large main speakers that you may want to handle the lower frequencies of 40/60Hz? Do you have a buttload of video devices (more than 5)?
You might just want to get your feet wet with a used 5 channel w/ just DD and DTS. You could prolly get a decent one on ebay or audiogon, or even here in the 'hardware for sale' section for $200-$300. Then once you figure it all out you can upgrade to something bigger and better instead of getting something expensive now and regretting it later.
To me, the biggest difference between the the 2802 and the 2803 is A) 2803 has 7 channels, 2802 has 6 (although, I think the 7th channel acts as 2 6th channels, ie mono). B)the 2803 crossover selection has the option to go down to 40Hz where the 2802 stops at 80Hz (meaning, how low do you want the front speakers to go before diverting signal to the subwoofer). Also, I think the 2803 has 32 bit DSP processor vs a 24bit on the 2802.
I own the 2802 and have really enjoyed it. For me, I don't think the extra's of the 2803 would be worth the extra cash especially since I've heard that you can get some excellent deals on the 2802 lately. Save the $ and put it torwards speakers where you can really notice a difference in sound quality. Although I have never heard a 2803, I cant imagine that it would sound that much different from the 2802. If you had a chance to do a side by side, I would recommend it and see for yourself if you can tell the difference.
As far as 5.1 vs. 6.1, when the HT bug bit me, I went out and got a decent 5.1 receiver, but after doing some further research and discovering there were actually 6.1 recievers out there, I had get one. But thats just me. And I did notice a difference between listening to material encoded in 6.1 vs 5.1 and felt that it was worth the upgrade. And although Denon's website does not mention the 2802 as being DD EX capable, it is. They just couldn't call it DD EX due to liscencing restrictions at the time if I recall correctly.
One more thing about the 1803, I dont beleive it has pre-amp outputs for all channels so if you ever wanted to upgrade to a separate amp, you would need a different amp/rec.
Sound like your on the right path though by doing research. Good luck with whatever you get!
http://electronics.cnet.com/electron...ml?tag=stbc.gp Try this link for some good receiver comparisons. I think the Harmon Kardon 225 from JandR for $359.00 is a standout. JandR is a factory authorized dealer, so you get the full 2 year warranty. Denon does not have any authorized dealers online that I know of .
Wow, the Pioneer VSX-912K looks amazing on paper. I can't believe the feature set on this receiver for under $300. If I was in the market, I'd be looking at this first. Here's a pic of the back panel. Alex, you should be able to see the difference between the RCA/composit jacks, the S-Video jacks (the 5 black circles with 4 holes and a verticle rectangular slot), and the component video
BTW, I've never heard this unit.
i wouldnt use the 912k to drive def tech speakers, but thats my opinion.
Thanks for all of the information!!
I can definitely make a more informed choice now.
I'm going to think about it today. I hope to decide by tonight.
Can you force the Denon 2802 to do the DD matrix on the rear channel on all 5.1 sources like so many other recivers can do?
cagri, i believe another poster posted a specification about the 1803 was low current and the 2803 is considered high current, and a sales rep at good guys along with another sales rep at a different local home theater told me the exact same thing without me asking about it.
thats where im getting my understanding from i dont know all the technical aspects of it, if you can prove it otherwise please do so, since im not a wiz at this stuff, i just get all the info form what people feed me
if the above statement were true, then wouldnt that mean the 2803 would have greater reserve power, and more apt to handling sound spikes? and the 1803 would be more liable to clipping at high volume levels?
myo, in Denon's website, the older models (1802 and 2802) and the ones which replaced them (1803 and 2803) have detailed spec sheets in pdf format. In those, I haven't seen any different data regarding audio between the four units except the 10W p/c extra power 2802 and 2803 have. There is nothing that Denon mentions 2802 or 2803 are "High Current" and 1802 or 1803 are "Low Current". The sales reps do not always tell the facts, either on purpose or because they simply don't know them, I think what you hear from them should be noted but not regarded as solid fact
I don't think clipping would be a different issue for these units.
Your last statement is correct, that a high current receiver would have greater reserve power and more apt to handle sound spikes, whereas the lower current receiver would be more subject to clipping at high volume levels. However, as I read Cagri's post, his question seems to be aimed at challenging the statement that the 2803 is a high current amp. Frankly, I don't believe that it is a high current amp. Although it is true that the 2803 has more power and a bigger power supply than the 1803, that does not make it a "high current amp." The term high current amp seems to be thrown around like rice at a wedding.
Current is measured in amps, not watts. I have been wholly unable to find any specification in the Denon literature that would lead me to believe that the 2803 is a "high current amp." To the contrary, you will note that the amp is rated into both 8 ohms (the US standard) and 6 ohms (the EU stnadard). The only receivers I have found that will state the amperage that they are capable of are harman/kardon and NAD. But a high current amp, as that term is generally accepted, should also be stable under at least 4 ohm loads and even 2 ohm loads. The Denon is not. If I wanted to kill my Magnapans (4 ohm load), I would hook them up to a Denon.
That does not mean that Denon is a bad product. It is a very good product. However, it has, along with Yamaha, Onkyo and almost all other Japanese audio companies, a different design philosophy that emphasizes reliability and demonstrable features. They generally do not believe that two amps that have identical specifications can be differentiated based upon sound alone, so the feature set is a critical part of their design philosophy. And it also why they have such low return rates in the industry
A high current amp generally has to have a loosely regulated power supply which is anathema to a Japanese audio engineer, or it has to be really big (like what you find in high quality separates, not receivers). Yet, in a Class A/B solid state amp, a loosely regulated PS is usually important to get the high current capability. That is precisely what many audiophile brands do. Bob Carver took this philosophy to the extreme about 20 years ago marketing the Carver Cube, a 12 wpc amp (continuous) that could hit 100 wpc peaks (IHF dynamic headroom of something like 9 db!).
So, I do not believe this marketing s*** that such and such a product has a "high current amp". If it really is high current, show me in the product specs (see above). Generally, these marketing morons don't know what they are talking about, and if they do, then they are lying. Nonetheless, they willingly misinform the salesmen at your local dealer, who often misleads the public. An extra 10 or 20 watts per channel continuous does not make something "high current" as that term has been generally accepted in the industry.