Original Star wars on DVD (1 Viewer)

[Matt Stone]

[ever-hopeful mode]Maybe they're wrong about Twin Peaks too [/ever-hopeful mode]

edit: Whoa, how'd that happen, my post showed up above David's.

 

[David Lambert]

Hmmm ... Well, I just checked that Seattle Times article and they couldn't be more wrong regarding King Kong. It's well known that Lowry Digital Imaging is putting the finishing touches on that transfer for a 2004 release.

You know, you're right. I guess I should read an article more closely before recommending it! :b

 

[Brent M]

OK, I have a dumb question, but I'll ask it anyway and try not to violate any rules in the process. If the bootleg Original Trilogy DVDs are mastered directly from the laserdisc versions of the films, what is so bad about the quality of them? I'm not asking where to buy the bootlegs or anything like that, I'm just wondering why how the video and audio of the bootleg DVDs compares to the LDs. I've heard some people say the 5-Star bootleg DVDs are pretty much the same quality as the Special Edition LDs and while I'm sure they're not exactly the same, I'm curious as to what the differences are. If anyone wants to address this(and as long as it is not against the rules), I'd really like to hear an assessment of the similarities/differences between the bootleg DVDs and LDs.

 

[Jeff Kleist]

One is covered in subtitles and compression artifacts, and launders money for the mob. One does not

 

[Brent M]

Jeff,

I was hoping for a little more of a serious answer than that. Anyone else?

 

[Jeff Kleist]

That is a serious answer.

Curiosity leads to questions Questions lead to Answers, Answers....lead to bootleg shopping

 

[Brent M]

Jeff,

I'm not bootleg shopping or endorsing bootleg DVDs in any way. I was basically just asking if a laserdisc transferred to DVD will be of similar quality to the source LD itself. I'm also wondering if it's worth the money to buy a decent LD player on eBay and get the Star Wars Special Edition LD box set. Can anyone who owns the SE box set give me a little information on the audio/video quality of this set and how it compares to the Episode 1 and 2 DVDs. I know that's probably an unfair comparison, but since I can't see these LDs in person I'd like to know a little about them before I buy the set and a player to play them. Thanks.

 

[greg_t]

I've seen the boots and the quality is terrible. Don't waste your money on that garbage. The video was poor, the sound was bad and had terrible audio sync issues. I myself have a set of the "Faces" trilogy and the special editions laserdiscs, and they are both far better than the boots I saw.

The quality of the LD compared to the Episode I and II dvd's varys depending on what size TV you have and how good your LD player is. My setup is as follows: Pioneer Elite 530 widescreen with a Panasonic XP30 dvd player and a Pioneer Elite CLD79 laserdisc player. The video quality of the special edition lasers is very good on the Elite, but it does not compare to the anamaphoric EP I and II dvd's.

On my bedroom setup, I have a 27" RCA direct view with an RCA dvd player and a Pioneer Elite CLD52 LD player. The two become much closer in quality at this point. The TV is much smaller and I don't get the anamaphoric enchancment. So the quality comparison really depends on the equipment you will be using.

I will suggest that if you get a LD player, get the best you can afford. Video quality on LD varies greatly from the cheap players to the higher end ones. Some good players to start with are the Pioneer CLD 703 or 704, or the Elite CLD59.

 

[Brent M]

Greg,

Thanks for responding. How do the audio and video quality of the Star Wars LDs compare to a new DVD? Since I don't have any laserdiscs and I have no way of seeing them before I buy, I'd like to get an idea of how they look and sound. Are the DD 5.1 tracks dynamic or are they just average and how does the picture look despite the fact it is non-anamorphic? Any info you could give me would be greatly appreciated. Thanks.

 

[Brent M]

OOPS, I meant to ask about the sound quality only and not picture quality again as you already addressed that in your post.

 

[greg_t]

Brent,

See my edit above.

you really need to tell us what size TV you will be playing them on and how good of a LD player you can afford. I will tell you that the Special Edition LD are the best star wars has looked outside of the cinema. If you are viewing on a smaller direct view set with a good LD player, they can look very good. The DD 5.1 tracks are actually pretty good. The ones for Empire and Jedi are better than for A New Hope. DD 5.1 on LD was called AC3. AC3 was stored on LD in RF form. So to get Dolby Digital from LD, you will need a LD player that has an RF output. You will then need either a receiver with an RF input, or an outboard RF demodulator, which then then hook directly into a digital input on your receiver. If all you plan to buy on LD is the special edition, I don't think the DD tracks are worth all of that. The standard PCM tracks played through Prologic sound great as well.

 

[Brent M]

Greg,

I have a 42" Panasonic plasma for my video source and my amplifier is a Pioneer Elite VSX-49TX. Do you know if that receiver has an RF input and would the Pioneer CLD-D704 LD player have the RF output I need? I found that player on eBay, but I can spend whatever amount is necessary to get the best equipment necessary. Thanks for all of your help and I look forward to your response.

 

[Joseph Bolus]

OK, I have a dumb question, but I'll ask it anyway and try not to violate any rules in the process. If the bootleg Original Trilogy DVDs are mastered directly from the laserdisc versions of the films, what is so bad about the quality of them? I'm not asking where to buy the bootlegs or anything like that, I'm just wondering why how the video and audio of the bootleg DVDs compares to the LDs.

Since LD video is analog, some small degradation *has* to occur in any kind of transfer to DVD, no matter how carefully they're "mastered". Now, AC-3 audio is digital so I suppose that a properly mastered bootleg could sound as good as a LD.

THE BOTTOM LINE is that most people here feel as though you're better off with the original LDs, or even the VHS Widescreen versions of the '97 SE's which were last released in 2000. PLUS, you don't have to feel like a criminal when you play the things.

I'm still hoping that we might get a basic release of the Original Trilogy in November 2004 to help promote Episode III. The reasoning here is that LucasFilm needs a November 2004 release of "something".

How does this sound:

* November 2004 --- "Classic" Star Wars Trilogy w/minimal extras and a preview of Episode III. (This would be a good window, actually, for the Original 1977,1980, and 1983 iterations of the movies, w/digital restoration by LDI.) Lucas could state that this is a release "for the fans".

* November 2005 --- Star Wars:Episode III (Revenge of the Sith?)

* November 2006 --- New, enhanced versions of the '97 SE Star Wars Trilogy with all-new "transitional" scenes, new SFX, and three discs worth of supplements.

* November 2007 --- "The Star Wars Saga 30th Anniversary Release" All six films re-edited into one long movie. Perhaps a 18 disc DVD Box and/or a 3 disc Blu-Ray Box.

So ...Before you think about bootlegs, you should instead be saving your sheckels for the inevitable deluge of releases to come!

 

[greg_t]

Brent,

I don't know much about the Panasonic plasma's, so I can't really comment on them. LD video quality comes down to how good your sets line doubler, comb filter, and stretch modes are. On my 53" Elite, the special editions look very good and are easily watchable. The Elite also has the best line doubler, stretch modes, and comb filter in the business. They look great on my 27" direct view. Your 42" should likely yeild solid results. Granted, it's not going to be anamaphoric dvd. A good comparison is to play a non-anamaphoric dvd on your set. LD quality will be right around there or perhaps even a little lower, depending again on how good the plasma's douber, stretch modes, and comb filter are. Even better, hook up your dvd player to your set via composite cable, then play a non-anamaphoric dvd. This will force your set to use it's comb filter.

I believe that the 49TX does indeed have an RF input, and a CLD 704 has the necessary RF output, so you should be good there. Now you have to get a LD player, because I am considering getting a 49TXi, and want to get peoples opinion on how DTS LD sound works with the 49TXi

One thing about LD is that it can be addictive. I bought my first player only to get the original star wars trilogy. I now have probably 60 LD, and over 30 DTS LD. DTS LD is awesome!

 

[Brent M]

Greg,

Thanks for all the information. As far as the Panasonic plasmas are concerned, they're pretty much the best on the market with Pioneer's offerings being a close second. It can even make non-anamorphic DVDs look good which is something I can't say about too many displays. Do you think the Pioneer CLD 704 is an adequate player that will yield good video or should I look for something more high-end? Also, which version of Star Wars do you have on LD--the THX set, the Definitive set or the SE box set(or all 3)? I've heard the SE box set has the best audio and video, but I'd like to have the original versions of the OT as well? Also, if I'm not mistaken, doesn't the Definitive set have a lot of bonus materials that aren't available anywhere else? If you have any info about the different sets, I'd really appreciate a brief explanation. Thanks again for all of your help.

Brent

 

[greg_t]

The 704 is pioneers best non-Elite player. You can go much higher end, such as the X9 that is on ebay right now, they will go for around ~1500 or more, as they are the best. The Elite 97 is also a great player, but doesn't have RF output by default, but can be modified to do so.

I myself have two sets of the THX Faces original trilogy and the special editions. The special editions look the best. The definitive collection does have bonus materials and are I believe the same transfer as the THX Faces set. The difference is the THX faces are in the CLV format, on which you get one hour of video per side. The Definitive collection is in CAV, on which you get 30 minutes per side. The DC also has had some issues with laser rot. Hope this helps. If you do a search you can get much more detail about the various LD releases.

How do you like that 49TX? Care to share your thoughts on it?

 

[Brent M]

Greg,

The 49TX comes with my highest recommendation. I have it mated to a Pioneer Elite DV-47Ai so I've just recently discovered SACD and DVD-Audio which are both quite impressive. The 49TX's performance with DVDs is absolutely amazing and it still brings a grin to my face every time I watch a movie. I read a lot of reviews on the 49TX before I bought it and the consensus was that it is the best receiver on the market today and it's as good as some separates. Unless you want to spend the big bucks on Krell, Lexicon or Mark Levinson, I don't think you'll find a piece of equipment that sounds better than the 49TX(at least that's how I feel about it). All I know is that I won't be replacing my receiver or DVD player for quite a while as I am completely thrilled with the 49TX and the DV-47Ai.

Now I just have to figure out what to do about this whole laserdisc thing. In your opinion, is the CLD-D704 a good enough player for a first time LD buyer(especially since I only plan on getting the Star Wars LDs for now)? Also, are the SE versions of the films on 1 hour per side or 30 minute per side discs and is it true that some players will switch sides so you don't have to get up and do it manually? Please forgive the dumb questions as I'm new to this whole thing. Finally, how much of a difference in video quality is there between the Faces THX set and the SE box set? If I'm going to buy a set, I want to get the one with the best audio and video so it sounds like I may go with the SE box set as my first purchase. Again, your help is appreciated and thanks again for all of your responses.

Brent

 

[Wayne Bundrick]

The SE versions are CLV for the first two sides and CAV for the third side. The next movie begins on the fourth side, and there are nine sides total for the trilogy, with some light extras also on side 9 after ROTJ.

Yes, there are players that will switch sides automatically, and I'm almost positive that a top model like the 704 will do it. I have a 606 which does it.

In my opinion, the video quality of the SE set is quite a bit better than the faces set, especially for ANH because of the restoration that was done for the SE. The colors are better, especially in the bright daylight scenes on Tattooine, although I'm sure that some of it is Lucas tinkering with digital color grading to do things such as casting a late afternoon orange glow on Mos Eisley. But I still think that looks better than the more washed out high noon looking whites of the older transfer. Nevertheless, I think it's important to have the original pre-SE versions for the sake of posteriority.

It is said that the faces set has the exact same video transfer as the Definitive Collection set, the only difference is that the Definitive Collection is completely CAV, 18 sides total. However, there were some mistakes on the Definitive Collection, for example in ANH the LD side ends right in the middle of the explosion of Alderaan, and in ESB at the start of a LD side there's a few seconds of Leia doing some welding that are missing. Supposedly the mistakes were fixed in later pressings. The Faces set doesn't have that problem. On the other hand, the Definitive Collection has much more extras (side 6 of each movie), and it also has some commentary on the analog audio tracks.

 

[Brent M]

Wayne,

Thanks for the informative post. I think I'll probably go with the SE box set first and then maybe get the Definitive or Faces set somewhere down the line. Just curious, do you have capability to play the SE laserdiscs with Dolby Digital 5.1 sound and if so, how does the audio on these LDs to compare to a good DVD track? I'm sure the LDs aren't as dynamic as Episode 1 or Episode 2 on DVD(two of the best DD 5.1 mixes currently available), but are comparable to other good DVD mixes? Your insight is greatly appreciated.

Thanks,
Brent

 

[Brian Lawrence]

and it also has some commentary on the analog audio tracks.

Should be noted that these commentaries are nothing more than a few short audio snippets placed here and there, I don't have the set anymore but I would doubt that each film's commentary tracks even add up to 20 minutes.